I have a 335i with just over 40k miles on the clock and in its 2nd year of warranty. It has not been involved in any accident or impact and yet the REAR alloys are cracked and in need of replacement.
BMW are blaming the state of the UK roads and wont do anything about it. My point is that they should build a car that can cope with local conditions; or modify it as they change.
I am astonished at the (polite) couldnt care less attitude of BMW, but I wondered - has anyone else had to arge this with BMW UK? If so what was the outcome?
ps: The local dealer has quoted a mind blowing £2k for 4 tyres and 2 wheels!!!
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I have an Astra that is 03 plate still on its original alloys and my last Astra (M reg) went to the breakers yard on the same set of alloys as provided on the day I purchased it having done 180k on them.
Both vehicles are (were) used on and off road, farmers dirt tracks, river banks, canal tow paths etc., when gaining access to fishing venues - so they have not had an easy life have they?
No cracked alloys at all - lots of punctures though :-(
If Vauxhall can get it right on a vehicle that costs a lot less than your average BMW, clearly BMW have it wrong here. It has to be down to the manufacture or the materials used?
Quick look at EBAy many listed there, few with closing hours left on them - you may get lucky! tinyurl.com/lxrzrn
Edited by Tron on 28/05/2009 at 19:52
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I take it these are 19' wheels? Presumably on 35 or 40 profile run flats? If so, the tyres give NO cushioning at all so more shock is transmitted to the alloy itself. Result is alloy damage. No help to you I know, but I would have thought BMW would have been a bit more helpful.
From HJ's CBC " 19' bling wheels prone to cracking from shocks from poor road surfaces, speed humps and potholes.'' Must be quite common then.
Edited by bimmer-driver on 28/05/2009 at 21:21
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Could you try phoning a few different dealers around you, maybe you will get a better answer.
I would be very surprised if they all say the same. I can't believe your dealer is blaming the state of the roads on the fault. Alloys on a presumably 27-35k car should not do that in 150k let alone 2 years and 40k.
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...Alloys on a presumably 27-35k car should not do that in 150k let alone 2 years and 40k...
True, but BMW will not warrant them for 10 miles over the wrong surface, let alone 150,000 miles.
I seem to have heard of a lot of wheel and suspension problems with BMWs in urban use.
Perhaps they don't have potholes and speed humps in Munich. :)
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Surely if they are blaming the road surface they are admitting that the car is not fit for purpose - i.e. use on the UKs roads.
After all the state of the roads in the UK is well know, or is it just well known to everyone except BMW?
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The other week I was having a puncture fixed and whilst chatting the manager mentioned they had had someone in with this problem. She had had a puncture, driven a short distance to the fitter at low speed to get a new tyre.
On taking the tyre off the wheel burst apart whilst on the fitting jig. Fotunately it missed the fitter, but they out it down to her driving on the runflats. On inspection the other rear wheel was also cracked, yet this had no puncture damage.
I wouldn't be happy if BMW said their wheels can't cope with UK roads!
I know someone who's just bought a 2 year old 335 with runflats. I'll definately make him aware of this problem
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i used to see a lot of cracked alloys on outer rims & inner hubs when carrying out MOT's. Also the new Mini wheels with runflats are prone to being fractured when new tyres fitted. The alloys are a poor design, the alloy is too thin
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Alloy wheels with runflats are the motoring equivalent of stilleto heels - total impractical, uncomfortable and don't last long before they need repair or replacement
Your choice
MVP
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>>Alloy wheels with runflats are the motoring equivalent of stilleto heels....
..and going rock climbing with a heavy rucksack & yomping down scree slopes.
As you say, impractical in the extreme. Although I have some sympathy with the OP, expecting what are virtually racing profile wheel/tyre combinations (I'm assuming they're not just 16-17 inch with 225/45.. ) to cope with the general conditions you might expect to find on the average road is perhaps expecting too much. I'm surprised they've lasted to 40K in fact. If BMW did make it a warranty item, they'd probably open the floodgates to similar claims.
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Perhaps they don't have potholes and speed humps in Munich. :)
There are some potholes here in Munich, but actually very few speed humps. The biggest challenge for car wheels and tyres here is the tram tracks.
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I have the same on my 335d but with only 28k miles. Been told to get stuffed by 2 dealers & bmw (uk) so I have just filed papers with the county court to recover my money.
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Do PLEASE come back and tell us how you get on! There is a lot of comment on this site about taking court action and how easy it is plus the chance of a favourable outcome. It would be nice to have a real life report on this, especially in a David and Goliath type case like yours.
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Been told to get stuffed by 2 dealers & bmw (uk) ..............
Really? I can't imagine any dealer being that coarse.
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Sadly this isn't a new problem for BMWs. I had three (e39 shape) 5 series in a row with 17 inch alloys that bent or had flattened areas on them. Standard BMW response was driver error/british potholes. - rubbish.
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My 335d has just over 20k on the clock with 18" rims/Bridgestone RE050 runflats and so far I've not had any problems. The previous owner evidently never went near the kerb with them so there's no damage.
What style of alloy do you have? There are a lot of different ones available and some don't look that substantial. Mine's running on these:
tinyurl.com/l35vv6
Also, if you have no joy with BMW, get some aftermarket ones - they cost a lot less.
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Sorry to hear of all the alloy trouble especially dealer fitted equipment, I'd have expected better. Although in a entirely different league when I bought the XM I currently have it had 225/45/17 fitted on 'T5R' alloys, one of the first things I did was get a set of V70 alloys with 195/65s fitted. Much happier and comfortable now.
Hope the legal action works out.
Steve.
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Hi Steve,
I saw your mention of "legal action". I am considering the same against BMW. Do you have any contact info for the claimant whom you wished good luck to so that he might help me to work out whether it is worth me attempting to do this too?
Richard
SQ
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 29/07/2009 at 14:53
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Damage to vehicles caused by potholes/ poorly maintaned roads: The relevant law is in Section 58(1) of the Highways Act 1980. This states that the authority (or other body responsible for maintenance and repair of the road) may defend any claim by showing it has taken ?such care as in all the circumstances was reasonably required to secure that part of the highway ? was not dangerous for traffic.?
Although: www.potholes.co.uk/
zone.theaa.com/forums/thread/202/#post792
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I had exactly the same problem with my 335d m sport. Both rear wheels cracked (only 28K miles). They told me it was down to both tyres being deflated which I found hard to believe. For warranty reasons I was forced to buy 2 new rear wheels and 4 new runflats. I wanted to ditch the runflats after hearing all the problems and the ride is a bit hard but the service manager insisted i continue on runflats because thats how the car was configured. I bought my own runflats but still got a bill for £2K and barely take the car out anymore incase i hit a pot hole or have to traverse speed bumps.
Please let me know how you got on with through the claims court.
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Have just cancelled my order for a replacement M Sport Highline coupe for my existing 57 coupe which was due for delivery in December.
At the time chose it against the new Merc E Class Coupe but now its an easy choice.
Besides the financial gamble I will not risk my life on BMW's flippant attitude towards their customers.
Now my biggest worry is what colour to choose for the Merc
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I have 330d Touring and have now had six cracked alloys and the same arrogant dismissive response from my BMW dealer.
I am thoroughly tired of it and whilst I love the rest of the car this factor alone will stop me buying another one.
Like other people in this forum I have argued with BMW that the product is simply not fit for purpose but they just wont have it and every time I have to shell out again for yet another new wheel.
The most recent one probably hasnt even been on for 15k miles before it cracked.
I have also had very uneven tyre wear to the fronts, alignment was done by main dealer and once again surprise surprise - They dont accept there is anything wrong.
BMW need to wake up - there is something fundamentally wrong with the wheel design and geometry on the 3 series and customers will leave them in droves if they dont start listening to us.
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Early last year bought the M3 sport model with 255/30R19 run flats on the rear. now with under 14k miles and just had the motor serviced to be advised that I need new tyres on the rear. I was astonished to see that with 4.5mm of tread across the tyres the inner edge is bald! I have started to take this up with BMW and Bridgestone but not given much support or consideration. After doing some research, I am very concerned now as there is a familar pattern of disatisfaction with owners of this type of tyre and inherent wheel cracking. They sound good in theory but from a practical point of view they appear to be useless and could endanger one's life. Motor is currently off road to consider the options. Wife has now refused to be driven in the car and is very happy with her old Clio!
I would expect to see at least 25/30k on tyres this day and age so will follow the trail!
Not impressed with BMW and will consider reverting back to Mercs' in the future.
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If it was me I would cut my future losses by replacing the wheels/tyres with something more durable.
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The M-Sport wheel/styling combo looks great though I reckon SE spec on a 3 Series makes more sense on UK roads.
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I watched a motoring man on the TV comment on these cracked BMW wheels. His point was that on the cracked wheels he inspected there was no damage to the alloy rim. In other words, the rims had not come into contact with the road surface. Thus the damage occurred because they were unable to withstand tyre impacts.
Something might be made of that in a court case.
Not having looked at wheels for a long time, I was surprised to see the wheel is attached by a surface that is so far off center. It is near the outside edge of the wheel and the inside edge is a long way from where it is fixed and has no cross bracing. This will result in flexture in the alloy when the inside edge of the wheel is impacted and would have needed careful consideration during its design.
It is a long time ago that I did a stint in the lab of a wheel manufacturer and saw the way the mechanic guys tested wheel flexture tolerance using a dynamic rig to see how many flextures it would stand before it broke. Also, those wheels were steel and had a centrally located fixture surface and wheels were not as wide as the BMW ones.
I wonder if, under the FOI act you could get a copy of the test procedure that was used by BMW (or their wheel designer) to verify that these wheels were fit for purpose?
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Reading another forum today, it's there that BMW are dropping the run flt tyres to prevent this problem...never liked them really.
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I wonder if, under the FOI act you could get a copy of the test procedure that was used by BMW (or their wheel designer) to verify that these wheels were fit for purpose? <<
Unless it is performed by a publically-funded body, then no.
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In other words the rims had not come into contact with the roadsurface. Thus the damage occurred because they were unable to withstand tyre impacts.
In the same way that if you put an egg in a paper bag and then drop it on the floor. The egg was unable to withstand a paper impact.
Potholes, council, Highways Act 1980 , claim, new wheels , sell car.
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www.roadscodes.org/
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Off to look at a 535GT later - will ask the questions (Dealership I have dealt with for years)
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Notice Anne Robinson mentioned this in last week's Watchdog. She too got nothing out of BMW but hinted that she had something planned to make BMW sit up and take notice.
Other than gathering all the damaged rims and plonking them on BMWs doorstep, wonder what she might be planning?
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Suffered the same problem today after a very flat run flat. Dealer told me I needed 2 rear tyres plus a replacement alloy because it was cracked = £1,200. Nearly fainted. Only paid for one replacment tyre as I wanted to learn more before shelling this out. Glad I searched the forums. Will take this up with my original dealer to see what the options are. Anyone know how unsafe it is to drive on a cracked alloy? Plenty of talk about it but no mention of the consequences...thanks
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Anyone know how unsafe it is to drive on a cracked alloy?
Presumably if you go over the bump that cracked the alloy in the first place again, you could end up on 3 wheels.
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From the details of those posting here, it seems this is mainly a problem on the sportier 3 series models with big wheels and ultra skinny tyres?? Presumably the ultra-low profile run-flats on these wheels with their stiff side walls have very little ability to abosrb energy, which is transmitted instead to the alloys until the inevitable happens. It does seems that this combination is not fit for purpose.
Any wheels, alloy or otherwise, can be dented or flattened if you hit an object hard enough. I managed to dent an alloy on a V40 with 15 inch wheels when I spotted a speed bump too late in the dark. But alloys with stress cracks are something else.
I was considering buying a 5 series last year, but was thinking of ordering a spare as an optional extra and switching to normal tyres when the run-flats wore out.
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Presumably if you go over the bump that cracked the alloy in the first place again you could end up on 3 wheels.
...although I don't think it needs the same bump to end up with the same outcome. A crack is a weak point, so it is likely to grow even when going over bumps smaller than the one that caused it. So not doing anything about it isn't really an option.
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More on Watchdog now... something about BMW not letting dealers sell them. More later in programme.
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To be featured on watchdog BBC1 tonight 20.00
sorry for duplication you beat me by 30secs!
Edited by pmh3 on 05/11/2009 at 20:03
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i see bmw have cracked under the pressure of watchdog
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i see bmw have cracked under the pressure of watchdog
Have they - or are they just stalling?
I have no respect for companies that wilt under pressure - either the wheels are OK or they're not. It really annoys me when consumers get nowhere and a TV programme or newspaper gets involved and suddenly the issue is resolved.
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>>Anyone know how unsafe it is to drive on a cracked alloy?
The crack will likely let the air out sooner or later.
Just had a cracked front wheel on our Focus ST and tyre went flat on the motorway. Never heard of it before and now it is on Watchdog. The wheels are 18 inch with a tyre size 225/40 R18. It's on the inner rim just like these BMW rears and there is no sign of damage. It is definitely not curbing on the inside edge. It does not sound like any other makes are being mentioned so just thought I would mention our Focus as having a similar problem.
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I'm now on my 2nd cracked BMW alloy. With the first, the BMW dealer initially refused to acknowledge there was an issue with these alloys and made me pay £520 which they refunded only after discussions about solicitors and making them acknowledge all the published stuff on the web -Sorted - that was two months ago......yesterday tyre warning light came on went to tyre supplier who said the tyre which they had taken off the old alloy and put on the new had split?damage related to swop over. Additionally found a crack on the other rear alloy. car was undriveable had to be taken on a flatloader back to BMW. I want to give this car back as not fit for purpose as I live in an area with country lanes
BMW dealer being very tight mouthed. TO ME THESE ALLOYS/TYRE COMBINATIONS ARE INAPPROPRIATE and MAYBE DANGEROUS ON THESE CARS
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I have a 335i which is just over 2 years old and has 17,000km on the clock. I had a run flat tyre and a valve set in another replaced last week. The other tyre was still leaking and I took it back to the tyre shop. They checked the wheels and found the two rear wheels were cracked. They said they were aware of other similar incidents with BMWs. I immediately took it to the dealer and have the car booked in next week for their review. They were very defensive and asked me how often I checked the air pressure. I was told I should do it every 2 - 3 weeks which seems ludicrous. It would mean checking the pressure every time I fill up. I can sense a battle coming up.
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Don't all RFT-equipped cars come with pressure sensors?
If not then I don't doubt the handbook suggests checking pressures weekly - every 2-3 weeks is reasonable, though it doesn't excuse the epidemic of cracked wheels. Perhaps this is an indication of where BMW is going with this.
Racing wheels generally have the web in the centre of the rim, leaving much less width of rim unsupported at the edge. The "vanity" wheels fitted to road cars seem generally to have much more offset with the web/spokes on one side - and it's the inner rim that cracks...
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BMW use the ABS sensors to measure the rotation speed of the wheel. As the pressure drops, it changes and the sensor picks it up. Mine went off when the tyre had dropped 7psi - slow leak from the valve.
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jjh, are the tyres that are fitted approved by BMW? Do they have the BMW designation star on the sidewall? See last paragraph of tinyurl.com/ycnghqd
Edited by L'escargot on 20/11/2009 at 10:14
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Have just been to bmw today to have a service and 1st mot on my 320d Msport saloon and have been notitified that it has failed its mot due to 'yes you guessed it' a cracked rear alloy(in 3 places). It has the 19" 225 varient of wheel (double multi spoke wheels with bridgestone RFT's) and although they didn't come on the car originally they are mint condition and original wheels and paid good money for them about 8mnths ago. I bought them for the car because in my opinion they are the best suiting wheel bmw make and they are an original bmw part and you expect good quality and I didn't want to put on some cheap aftermarket wheel. looks like a wrong decision. My last 3 cars have been bmw, going to think long and hard when I replace this 1!!
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Just been informed by BMW Australia that they're prepared to replace the two cracked rear rims at no cost as a goodwill gesture. They state the rims have been cracked due to being driven with insufficient pressure in the tyres. They're also insisting all four tyres have to be replaced, including two that are two and four weeks old. They won't accept that the new tyres have been damaged by the internal sidewall getting snagged on the cracks in the rim. They blame the tyre shop for placing new tyres on damaged rims. The tyre shop says they simply take the wheel off a car, place it face up and remove a tyre. They don't check a rim unless there is persistent leaking and no sign of a puncture. BMW are proposing to replace Bridgestones with Pirelli run flats. Perhaps this in response to uneven wear problems associated with the Bridgestones.
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I posted a thread about similar issues back in 2007 but the general opinion at that point was that the issue was a combination of hitting something and the run flat tyres.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=50783&...f
Unfortunately the photo links don't work anymore.
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Unfortunately the photo links don't work anymore.
Bobby, they got transferred to the new site:
honestjohn.multiply.com/photos/album/19/BMW_5_Seri...l
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>>Unfortunately the photo links don't work anymore.
>>
But fortunately I saved a photo from that thread. " Fri 6 Apr 07 20:40 "
plus some text from your good self
It shows the hub of the wheel on the ground and the remainder standing upright.
Is this the photo you were hoping to still see?
I am not familiar with posting photos but happy via the mods for a. n. other to post it.
Edit - DD has sorted things while I was slow posting.
Edited by henry k on 26/11/2009 at 01:07
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Are the offending wheels and tyres part of the standard specification of the car or are they customer-chosen extras? And are they factory fitted or dealer fitted?
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I think the 19s on the 3 series that crack are optional on all of them.
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I think the 19s on the 3 series that crack are optional on all of them.
In that case, it sounds as if the financial pain of having them is partially self-inflicted.
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BMW have always had problems with their alloys. I think part of the problem is the high ET (offset). Seen countless cars when the wheel has gone out of round on the inner edge, they usually look OK from outside. Drivers dont always notice and dealers wont look for it at service unless the driver askes, they just want it on and off the ramp ASAP with new oil and filter and tick the sheet.
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Can anyone advise if this is still a problem? Brother in law has just picked up an 08 reg 530d with 19" wheels from a BMW dealer. He spoke to the BMW dealer regarding this problem and they said 'it was on the old wheels the problem occured and its now been fixed'.
He was unaware of this problem until I pointed out, and by this point he was going to pick the car up the next day.
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Tell him to get that in writing.
Unlikely because then BMW would be admitting there's a problem in the first place.
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Hi everyone,
congrats on your watchdog success & i hope everyone has had this sorted out.
Im having a problem with mazda, so are many others. How did you lot get in contact with watchdog?? i am struggling to find out how.. I've emailed them, sent them recorded delivery letters, telephoned them and left them numerous voicemails, faxes, texts... In total, i must have tried contacting them at least 50 times.
Any tips?
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Any tips?
Well they should have at least acknowledged your calls etc., but they're probably not interested unless they get more than a certain number of people all complaining about the same thing.
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In total, just the people i have managed to speak to - approx. 10 people have complained about the same problem, and in the past 2 weeks another 10 at least have. None of us are getting any joy.
I thought that was the place when you dont have any other options left, ive even tried the society of motoring people the one that Ann took on on watchdog for the BMW's. No response from them either, maybe mazda are spending lots of money to keep everyone hush? i highly doubt it but thats how it makes us feel.
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www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/pag...l
Relevant or Related Legislation:
Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
Key Facts:
? Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
? Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
? Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
? It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.
www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/index.cfm
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Has anyone identified the style of wheel that is cracking,it would be useful to know if the problem is universal amongst all the 19" alloys or largely unique to one manufacturer.
We have manufactured alloy wheels to the JWL standard,this standard is that used by Lexus and Toyota and has definite wheel impact tests to simulate kerbing or pothole impact damage...it is respected by those who developed the standard that road wheels will suffer occassional heavy impact beyond the control of the driver. I suspect that BMW builds to the TUV standard which must have similar testing procedures.
If you google 'JWL standard' the impact testing procedures are available to view.
Our wheels are manufactured from aircraft spec A356 alloy and used in rally applications,although not of the same diameter or width as the BMW wheels we have not had a failure or even distortion.
If the wheels are largely of one style I am prepared to buy a new wheel,put it through our test procedure,design out the weakness,albeit probably at a weight increase penalty and manufacture a batch of wheels to our standards. However this is only possible if we can reduce the options to one style of wheel.
Based upon our current retail prices I am confident I can sell a rim for about £150.00+ vat.
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I bought a used 118d from an approved dealer on Saturday 6th February, 2010. It was parked for two days at home and then I took it to drive to work today (08th Feb 2010).
Run flat light came on very soon. Called BMW Emergency line and they said, they don't fix the tyres and I should be able to drive to nearest dealership. When I bought it, the salesman made a lot of claims about as if Run flats are the based thing since sliced bread. BMW Emergency line also said that if I drove slowly, I can drive upto 50 miles. So I was on the motorway but then car wasn't stable and had to be rescued and taken to a BMW dealer (not the one I bought from). They said, they had to replace the tyre which costed £130.
.*******
Can anyone help me if I have any rights here? I didn't expect the tyres to not even last 2 days. Can I take any action against the approved dealer? I am sure the car had issues but they didn't pick up in their famed 150 point checklist.
If this is a general problem then I think BMW Prospective customers need to be informed. And from I understand there are quite a few people who have had such issues.
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I, have a bmw 325 with 12,000 miles on the clock i have never driven into a kerb do not speed and there is not so much as a scratch on my alloy wheels , but last week after taking my car to my local bmw dealer because the warning light kept lighting up even after air pressures were checked i was told that all 4 wheels were buckled and all 4 tyres have been damaged by the buckled wheels . I contacted bmw head office they were very polite but were adamant the problem was caused by the roads bmw wanted me to sign a report before i could take my car home , which said my car was dangerous , i could not do that ,My repair bill was a staggering £2387 one has to ask the question were the original wheels and tyres fit for the purpose for which they were sold ?
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I find that highly unusual - to get one buckled wheel is unusual, for all four to go at the same time...what are the odds of that happening? Sounds very suspicious to me.
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Hope you took the old wheels away to get them independently checked, or by now they will have mysteriously disappeared, I expect
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I have a 2011 bmw 335 IS and the rear wheels have cracked twice in the past three months. I drive very cautiously, especially after last time, and the car is presently in the shop. BMW replaced the first set of cracked wheels, but I'm not sure what they will do this time. The dealer has been great, but when I asked if they could replace with a "not so high performance" tire, they said BMW would not allow that. I had no choice but to agree to put the same wheel tire combination back on. When I asked what they would do if it happened again, they said we'll see. So we are seeing. Any suggestions out there?
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As many others have said, the combination of big wheels low profile tyres is a bad mix. Our road system in the uk is a disgrace, so the combination of the two is very very bad news. Just drive westbound into cardiff on the a48m and then the a48 and see the pitiful state of a dual carriageway/motorway, main trunk road going into the welsh capital. Good for the tourists ehhhhh! just had 4 days of driving in silkysmooth roads in france and belgium. what an advert for the uk our roads are.
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