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Edited by Dynamic Dave on 26/04/2009 at 01:10
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Have just bought a 730T and had it hard wired to the car sat in a CarComm mount.
iirc my old TT 700 with a similar set up would switch on automatically once the ignition was turned but the 730 doesn't. The power/charge lamp lights up but the unit won't switch on until the button is pressed.
Anyone know if there is a setting for this or any other solution?
Thanks in advance.
R40
ps would recommend the car comm mount - a neat and compact solution.
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I don't believe it is possible to get it to power on automatically. You'd get more people with knowledge responding if you post on www.pocketgpsworld.com.
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Does anyone on this site use Smartnav on their car? The car ive just brought has it built in and im using a one month free trial and its pretty good. They want £109 a year for navigation for 155 routes. This seems a bit steep as you can buy a satnav for less than this. Has anyone managed to negotiate a deal with them?
Thanks
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Had it for years but just let it go in my last car - you didn't buy a Vectra Elite which smelt of creosote did you?
I used to pay a sub, plus the speed alert thing, came to about £16 pm in total IIRC. I didn't realise there was a route limit, but never used it a great deal, well, not on lots of short routes anyway.
It has great features, but it IS expensive, so I called them a year or so back saying could they cut me off - and expecting them to offer me a deal. They didn't. Not only that, they reverted the unit to being a new installation, which gave me a free month.
However you can pay on a per route basis, about 90p a time I think, with no sub.
The BIG advantage used to be the traffic notifications and re-routing, but even relatively cheap portable systems do that now, and they have the great advantage that they are portable. I removed Smartnav myself from one car but had it fitted to the next and it was something over £100. So, while it was great in it's day, with the cheaper units now available I don't think it is good value for money. (Note it cost me over £600 to buy, and that was without a screen!)
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Mate of mine has had it for about 4 years and I was never aware it had a limit to the number of calls for routes. Must admit I found it a bit of a pain this year. A few times it has changed the planned route whilst we have been on a M Way and as we came down the slip road it changed the route back to the original. Has done this on at least 3 out of 9 trips so far.
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When i phoned them up they said the £109 was for 155 routes. It is an expensive system and seems a little dated now but as its all built into the car then its handy.
WHSmith have Nav Go systems for £45 now, so although the Smartnav has traffic monitoring it suddenly seems very over priced at £109.
Il give them a call when the month trial is nearly up and see what they can do.
Thanks
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Does anyone on this site use Smartnav on their car? The car ive just brought has it built in and im using a one month free trial and its pretty good. They want £109 a year for navigation for 155 routes. This seems a bit steep as you can buy a satnav for less than this. Has anyone managed to negotiate a deal with them? Thanks
I used Smartnav for the last three years, I would highly recomend it.
If you have a screen, you have unlimited routes that you set via the screen, favourite, lat route, postcode or address input. The 155 limit is purely for PA generated routes, i.e. where you talk to the PA in the control centre.
I find it great for finding places that you know very little about, the traffic reports are a godsend at times, mapping is updated regularly etc.
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Having the capacity on a card in the device I am using a 50Mb computer voice which can read road numbers and street names all over Europe, which I find useful. However, from time to time the voice breaks up and some syllables are missed out of what is being said. I think this may be due to a low battery, but, even when it is on the car powerlead, with the low battery being charged, the problem seems to continue.. Any ideas please? I might add that I tried deleting the voice and re-downloading it and I was told the voice was incompatible with my device, despite the fact that I had been using it for a year. I got it back by restoring from a back-up but it is still intermittent from time to time. Ideas appreciated, as ever!
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The voice stuttering on this device is a known problem. Discussed on the mytomtom website.
Edited by Old Navy on 12/02/2009 at 17:55
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If this was on battery only then I too would say it was a power issue. If also happening when connected to the power socket I am not so sure. Mine has never done this.
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Thank you both - it has not been a problem all the time - only recently - I can live with it though.
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Rob, be careful of software updates (v8.3xx) this may be the problem. Only the "Kate" voice stutters on mine.
Edited by Old Navy on 12/02/2009 at 18:45
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I am on 8.300 - can un-update it, so to speak?
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I am not that good with things electronic, have a look at the mytomtom forums. I think you must have a pre 8.3xx backup.
Edited by Old Navy on 12/02/2009 at 19:18
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Drat! I haven't even got a pre 10/2/09 backup!
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My 720 is on v8.301, that has not fixed it.
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Well mine is still on 8.010... I still should have stayed on v7 as that had a better display for compass. Without v8 maps this gives me nothing.
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I have just downloaded a new application for the TT Go 720 from TT Home, It is 8.302. It seems to have resolved the stuttering problem, I have run route demo's through London and Edinburgh without a stutter from Kate and the screen response seems better.
Edited by Old Navy on 02/03/2009 at 20:08
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I have checked some of the TT forums and application 8.302 is TT's fix for the stuttering. Lets hope they have got it right this time!
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I risked an update a few days ago but not actually used it. There were also updates for the TTS voices too.
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I risked an update a few days ago but not actually used it. There were also updates for the TTS voices too.
I'll let you guys run it for a few days before I update. I too am annoyed about the loss of the compass display
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Latest version (and previous I had) still has a compass. Not as good as before I admit.
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yes but its now a weeny little arrow - barely useable.
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Rob: The 8.302 application was only released yesterday, so the stuttering fix will not be in the update you did a few days ago.
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Im selling my Road Angel 7000 but would like to delete the recent trips ive been on as these include my own address. Ive tried using the factory reset option but that doesnt delete the 'recent trips'.
Does anyone know how to do this
thanks
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Sorry I dont know how to reset -but would say NEVER put your real home address in satnav. Most people can find their house from main roads in their home town ;-)
if the car gets stolen (with house keys) you will get home to find it empty.
Best advice i have heard, is to put the local police station in under 'home'.....
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Don't know about the contraption but...
Could you input a short 'dummy' journey enough times for the journeys you want not to be read to be obliterated?
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According to a report i've read, due to dodgy software, you have to contact road angel and get them to reset it.
>>A "factory reset" can be requested from Road Angel Group on 01327 855586 or by emailing the serial number with your request and reason. <<
Billy
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Connet via active sync then go into the Mobile Device and do the following:
Find the folder 'Prefs' and delete the file 'Prefs.unitedkingdom.irelandMRE'
job done!
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Maybe nobody will know but worth a try.
I have a Garmin Nuvi 205 - turned it on today and it says it cant unlock maps, detailed maps unavailable. Not done anything unusual, pressing buttons etc. Just it was working, turned off and an hour later it was was kaput.
I went to the Garmin website, followed their instructions which made no difference.
Im at a bit of a loss other than to tak eit back to the shop - any ideas appreciated?
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Are the maps on a memory card - if so, check its not dropped out/popped up.
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I had a problem synching my garmin with a new laptop. I e-mailed their help desk and received a full response next day with a solution.
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Well ive tried Garmin's solution on their website and it didnt make any difference - I didnt fancy phoning their 1-800 number just yet.
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Thankfully fixed it - had to create an unlock file and stick it on the sat nav - beyond my understanding what I was doing. Not sure how it happened that the file disappeared but it is sorted anyway, so if it happenes to anyone else, Garmin website has the answer although in two places, one of which has a key piece of info missing in instructions, hence it didnt work first time!
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This one is really bugging me now.
When I'm anywhere near the M62/M18 area ( even as far as Manchester) my Tom Tom read out is M62/DN16
What does the DN mean???
Pat
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Postcode?
Mine did that once and confused me for a while, (easy done), dont know why it did it, or why it stopped either.
Edited by Old Navy on 20/02/2009 at 19:18
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Pat if you let me know the route planned I'll try it on mine in demo mode to see what it does if you want.
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Try Hull to Manchester or even Hull to Worksop as it's still displayed on the M180 and M18.
It may be the postcode but it's the only place in the country where it does this, so why no postcode anywhere else?
My thoughts are always the 'DN' is something to do with Doncaster, but it was definately there yesterday around Rochdale and Manchester which surprised me.
Pat
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Pat, It may be a software glitch. My tomtom only did it once when I was in the Hamilton area near Glasgow, I have not returned to that area or seen it anywhere else. I think the DT postcode covers a pretty big area.
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I have remembered that the time that my TT showed a road followed by the first half of a postcode was when I did a route to a postcode not an address, not something I normally do.
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57 Mondeo, with the built in nav (the one with voice control, bluetooth etc).
All works fine (now I've read the manual!!), except when using the phone people tell me I'm very quiet. Changing the volume doesn't seem to help at their end. Any ideas?
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Hi - I am about to buy an 04 530D with Business Navigation. Can you tell me if it comes with Speed Camera Alerts built in? Regards Ian
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 21:55
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I would very much doubt it, ask the seller.
This is a four, maybe getting on for five year old system so even if it did, how accurate would it be without updates ?
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 21:56
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It will not come with speed camera alerts and as said would be very much out of date quite quickly.
I have read that some BMW Sat Navs can have the disk copied and modified to include cameras. Looked fairly straight forward if you're familiar with computers. Worth taking a look on www.pocketgpsworld.com.
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 21:56
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Hi
I am about to buy a 2004 04 530D BMW from a non BMW Dealer and it comes as standard with Business Navigation.
Can someone tell me if it comes with Speed Camera Alerts or if it is possible to upgrade it so it does?
Regards
Ian
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I have read that some BMW Sat Navs can have the disk copied and modified to include cameras. Looked fairly straight forward if you're familiar with computers. Worth taking a look on www.pocketgpsworld.com.
I'm shocked ! Moderator of HJ website suggests hacking OEM software ? ;)
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 21:57
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Not hacking anything. It's possible to add points of interest to the disk. Everything else remains the same. Only legal if you hold the original disk. I am not suggesting purchasing a dodgy sat nav disk from e-Bay or anywhere else.
And the software remains the same. This is adding some point of interest data to a disk. What's wrong with that?
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 21:57
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What's wrong with that?
You are modifying the original media supplied by the manufacturer.
Some manufacturers take a very dim view of this kind of thing.
I once created a backup of an original disk from a satnav co. because the original had a fault. I sold the original + the copy and got into trouble for creating a working version.
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 21:57
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Don't give the modified version? You purchase a licence with the car for the data on the disk. I can see no problems as long as you have the original.
The pocketworldgps website also links to this:
www.pimp-my-nav.com/
Anyone doing this does so at their own risk. I am not suggesting this is 100% legal.
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 21:57
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I am not suggesting this is 100% legal.
It's no different to modifying an engine map.
When you buy a car, you buy licence for the engine map, satnav etc...
If your modified disk directs you in to an accident the manufacturer has a get out clause and invalidates your insurance unless you tell your insurance co. you have modified the OEM supplied software.
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 21:57
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What utter nonsense gmac. You can buy new sat nav discs anyway so not linked with original purchase. Change an engine map and that effects the car mechanically/physically.
My suggestion also does not alter any data anyway. Alter a map file in anyway on the sat nav disk and the checks the software does will determine the file is corrupt. There will be at the very least CRC checks on the files to ensure the map data files are valid.
About to move the latest post from the new poster into the sat nav thread on their request. Just to confuse everyone.
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 21:56
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What utter nonsense gmac. You can buy new sat nav discs anyway so not linked with original purchase. Change an engine map and that effects the car mechanically/physically. My suggestion also does not alter any data anyway. Alter a map file in anyway on the sat nav disk and the checks the software does will determine the file is corrupt. There will be at the very least CRC checks on the files to ensure the map data files are valid.
So you can 100% guarantee the mods will be picked up by a CRC check ?
Most people who supply aftermarket modifications are ahead of the game on this. It is no guarantee that the system will perform as originally intended by the designer. The designers have been known to include some irregularities to ensure the system is as designed and intended.
Big leap of faith on your part that the aftermarket guy knows what the original designer intended unless the aftermarket person is the designer. Who knows?
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 22:00
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I am talking modifications to the sat nav disk and not a remap of an ECU. Please calm down. I am not suggesting he edits the config of his car's ECU.
Adding points of interest to the sat nav disk will not affect the mapping data. If the map data was corrupted it would not work.
Can we let this be about POIs and BMW sat navs. Thank you.
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 22:01
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I am asking relevant questions.
You are suggesting someone modify their car, I am questioning the wisdom of this and as yet I have seen no evidence that this is legal with regards to OEM warantee or insurance.
Navteq, for example, are very protective of their software. Have you contacted them with regard to modifying their licenced software ?
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gmac,
Politely stop responding if you have nothing to add. Navteq do not produce software. They produce map data. Data and software are not the same.
I have not suggested a modification to a car. I have suggested it is possible to add points of interest to the existing data.
As I say Navteq produce no software. They are not a software company. The sat nav software (which is runs on the sat nav unit in the car) is not loaded off the map disk. To upgrade the sat nav software you will need a disk with upgraded software and that will cost.
Thanks
Rob
Edited by rtj70 on 21/02/2009 at 22:39
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I think gmac, a long standing member, has been offended by me in this thread tonight. I did not intend to cause offence.
I think he and I disagree on changing point of interest files on a sat nav. He refers to software but this is data and not software. On my TomTom I can edit/delete POIs (including moving the factory supplied ones), edit roads and have my own points of interest. So can have speed camera warnings.
Anyway did not intend to offend gmac.
I will try to find out if BMW object to adding POIs to a sat nav disk on Monday.
Rob
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Just sold my 5 year old Honda Accord which had a pretty reasonable if basic sat nav built in and the new car (mondeo mk VI) doesn't have one.
All I want is
- safety camera warning anytime its switched on (ie I don't have prog in a route)
- accurate maps of europe with up to date post codes
- can mount/wire in a permanent clip in fitting for it with power cord tidied away
tomtom XL looks fav and only costs £150. It has traffic updates which sound useful but I can live without. I dont need/want phone link, mp3 or all the other gubbins you can buy
any comments/experience ? thanks in advance
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IMHO - TT is the best, I've used Garmin, Navman and others and still TT is the most user friendly. It's a bit like the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Universe and should have "Don't Panic" written into the welcome screen.
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I'd second the choice of TomTom.
For a modest fee you can get annual speed camera updates from PocketGPSWorld.com. Better than the TomTom ones. Updated by members of the forum.
To get speed camera warnings when no route is planned you just need to make sure the POI warning is setup to alert on nearby speed cameras and the option to only alert if on your route is not selected.
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"tomtom XL looks fav and only costs £150"
After years of using Navman, my TT One Classic (with Europe maps) for just under £100 does everything I need and seems much more user friendly than the Navmans.
tinyurl.com/d5mhkl
tinyurl.com/d7m63f
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For those in the Trafford Park vicinity... you can collect from Expansys and delivery avoid charges. They need a couple of hours before an item is ready.
Edited by rtj70 on 28/02/2009 at 23:03
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As the title says, I'm looking to replace the single DIN cd/radio and the cubby hole beneath in my Subaru Forester with a double DIN satnav with a decent radio that will take an Ipod connection. A large touch screen with 3D maps is essential and I'm used to a dvd-based satnav which was so good, quick and accurate. So a DVD one or a very good flash memory-based one, preferably updateable at not too much cost, don't need camera locations (have a Road Angel Connected), UK-only maps would be fine. The budget is flexible. I expect to have to replace the speakers to get a decent sound.
Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
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Frankly I wouldnt. Unless you go for specific car makers original equipment (ie the £1500 RNS 510 VW one) then then double din units are hard to find and not cheap - like the 700 quid JVC KW-NX7000.
All fail to meet your requirement for easy cheap upgradeable maps.
I would spend my money on a good single din stereo and a TomTom and have a couple of hundeed quid change in my wallet.
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What about a single DIN unit with a screen that comes out of the unit and turns to upright. Then when not in use it's hidden.
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That could be an option, anyone got one?
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I'm sure most would opt for something like a TomTom or similar so you can take it with you.
A quick google show's loads like this:
tinyurl.com/dcrgbj
But expensive.
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That Kenwood is nice. The built-in system in my Legacy was a dvd Kenwood and it has spoilt me. I don't really want another thing perched on the dash. I'll see if I can find somewhere to see them in the flesh. I suppose Halfords is as good as anywhere just to see lots together.
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I am thinking of adding a RDS-TMC receiver to my Tom Tom sat nav. Before I do, I seek advice from any backroomers who have such, are they effective? I am sure with all the experience out there someone will be able to help.
Thanks , Sumpnut.
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I have this built into my Pioneer Avic F900 and find it really useful. I do notice it sometimes it informs me there are traffic issues when the road is clear (I guess there were issues earlier and they have not been cleared off the databases)
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Many thanks Pica, this was the sort of information I was after, having spent two hours stationary in a jam when the local radio was giving a twenty minute delay.
Would you say it helped more times than hindered, rerouting around nonexistence holdups?
Thanks, Sumpnut
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I am not a high mileage driver but when I have used it I have saved some serious queuing. When I do start a journey I do look at the traffic information and see what it says before I decide which direction to go off on. Saved me some hassle this morning around the M3.
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I've found the traffic functions to be a waste of time. It isn't reliable enough to be relied on, if you see what I mean, and I always end up in a massive traffic jam on a more minor road that the system has no idea about.
I don't use it any more despite having the facility.
Saying that, I've heard anecdotal good things about the Traffic HD that Tomtom are now doing - apparently its coverage is far better as it's based on data from Vodafone or something like that...
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Thank you Gordon, that has given me food for thought. The system I was considering was not the one based on a cellnet phone, so I may have to think again.
Thanks, Sumpnut.
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I use RDS-TMC with a tomtom 720, which uses IQ routes and automatically chooses a route dependent on time of day and day of the week. The RDS-TMC is usually OK for road works and rush hour congestion but is not good at "incidents" or changing situations. I only use mine for long distance journeys, and then only for "advice" which I often ignore. If you decide to buy a TMC unit make sure it is the latest version with a part number which ends in .013. These have a more sensitive reciever and work better than the previous ones which were very reluctant to lock on to, or hold a signal.
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Thanks Old Navy, you and Pica appear to use the system in a similar way which is very interesting.
Tom Tom have the receiver on offer direct, so it is the latest bit of gear. Having said that, no matter how good a bargain, I can do without the frustration of acting on false information ( like every one else I shout at the sat nav already).
Now going into deep thought!
Thanks, Sumpnut.
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I have the RDS reciever plugged into the 720. Even the new one has problems its not the best bit of kit arround. Also the RDS info can be misleading. The other day it told me the m25 was jammed all the way round and threw in a huge diversion with an arrival time 2 hours longer. I ignored it, there were no jams and got home at the original time.
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I also use the RDS receiver with a 720. It is fairly accurate but (SFAIK) some of the info is based on the information/tracking of vodafone users who are driving round with their phones switched on. This obviously limits the info a bit and could be confused by a Vodo user parked in a service area for 30 minutes or asleep in a Travelodge overnight!
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Maybe the incident information is a bit slow in the UK where I don't have any experience of TMC. Driving past Orleans this morning (Sunday) I got a flash of an incident on the TMC of my Becker satnav just as the smouldering van came into sight and the hard shoulder of the autoroute. The fire brigade were just arriving behind me so the French must get the TMC system working fairly quickly. It was a first, mind you, because yesterday I was just leaving Montpellier when I got a warning of animals on the autoroute two hours ahead of me. At least the message explained what the problem was rather than just as an 'incident'. I have it set to English, incidentally.
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I am going on holiday to California in May. Having looked at the car hire sites, they want £180 for 2 weeks rental of a Sat Nav for the car. It seems to me that I could probably buy one for litle more than that, then bring it home with me to use in the UK.
Has anyone any advice on Sat Navs with maps of both the UK & USA?
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TomTom costs whatever the model you choose costs and a US/Canada map (2GB) is £64.95.
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Buy a cheap one from Walmart when you get there.
You could sell it on eBay when you get back for probably about the same as you pay for it.
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If you want to use in the USA and the UK (no Europe) it could make sense to buy before you go and get the maps. If you don't want one really for the UK then do as someone said above and get a cheap one over there. But my thought on that....
.... might you need it as soon as you pick up the hire car.
And it would be a good idea to use it in the UK before going on roads you know to learn how it works etc.
If you're going down the TomTom route, be aware that the lower end devices have no memory card slot and limited memory (UK versions have less memory than European mapping versions). It may therefore be impossible to stick on maps of the USA.
You can get maps of just say California but you're not saving much money.
Moving to the sat nav thread....
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...or a Garmin which includes maps of both Europe and USA
buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=134&pID=13426
I think there are other both-continent models available with wider screens, traffic, etc. but obviously the weight goes up
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If you're looking for a TomTom with SD card slot, have a look at the refurbs here:
www.totalpda.co.uk/TomTom.10026/
I bought a 720 from here and it was like new. It came with a LMG (latest map guarantee) certificate. A quick Google will reveal various voucher codes for discounts fromTotaPDA.
If buying new from a retail outlet in the UK, look out for offers for 2 years of map upgrades.
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It's the TomTom Go 720 I have. And very good it is. Maps on the memory card or internal memory can be picked up. And you can stick MP3's on it and play those back on the car radio via the FM transmitter.
I'm not bothered about the voice recognition stuff but the fact it does Text to Speech (TTS) for instructions is better than simple recorded instructions. I also do not use it to control my mobile via Bluetooth.
I do however use the GPRS connection over Bluetooth for traffic info.
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Can I buy and install more memory to my TomTom?
At the moment I can either have European maps or UK maps but I'll need both when I drive over in a couple of weeks.
Many thanks.
Dave.
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Well i'll guess your model and assume you dont have an SD card slot.
The answer is no.
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BBD, you don't say which TomTom model you have. If it's got an SD card slot then yes you can add more memory. How much depends on the model again - 2Gb will be no problem but not all TomToms take SDHD cards for larger memory.
Also depending on model, it can use both internal and memory card for maps at the same time (e.g. Tomtom x20, x30, x40) but some older models would use internal memory or the SD card.
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Sorry, it's a TomTom One, 3rd Edition and doesn't appear to have any slots. I guess that's a no then. Spose I'll have to bring an iMac and change maps on the Ferry.
Dave.
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TomTom One 3rd edition was when they cut the cost of the units. And one change was no memory slot.
The Mac will be handy anyway.
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BBD,
I have a TomTom One Classic 3rd Edition and it has both Uk and W European maps((21 countries altogether) on it - built in memory on yours should therefore be big enough for both?
Phil
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Although I note that it says here
www.tomtom.com/products/maps/select.php?D=29
that some Ones have limited memory - check by plugging into computer
Phil
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The TomTom One 3rd edition with only UK maps has less memory than the one with European maps. It saves pennies but is one reason for the price difference.
You are unlikely to get both a UK and Europe map on at the same time. And this one has no memory card slot either.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVrSgLNFToM&feature=related
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Many a true word AE. My ancient TomTom is more than capable of finding a route to an obscure village in Italy or a campsite in France or an industrial estate in Denmark. It will cope admirably with any major city in Europe. Ask it to find its way around Ireland and it just gets confused !
Having said that, I updated the maps on it this week so it might be smarter now.
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I received a Garmin as a present about 2 years ago - I have only used it 2/3 times.
I switched it on last week for the first time in ages (waiting outside shops for SWMBO) and it said I should upgrade the maps.
Co-incidentally I got an email from Garmin offering updates - £59.99 - you can buy the entry level model for well under £100.
A combination of using very little and extortion for map upgrades I will not be tempted.
Surely map upgrades and say £10 a pop would have many upgrading - £60 there will be few (if any) taking up the offers.
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I don't have a Satnav and get by quite nicely without one, having used my own system for planning routes since I started driving 30 years ago. However, there are times when I have thought that one may come in handy, especially in strange towns and cities. So I was intrested when my brother in law lent me his TomTom for a couple of days recently.
Well I gave it back feeling underwhelmed. My main problem was the lack of any lane information. I can follow road signs and don't need a Satnav to tell me where to go on major routes. Where I want help is with getting in the correct lane for a junction or roundabout etc, especially in busy traffic. The Satnav actually caused me to be in the wrong lane a couple of times because I relied on the device totally. Had I not had it, I would have been a bit more observant and stood more chance of being in the correct place on the road.
The bottom line is that a Satnav may come in useful for me on the odd occasion but until they can give me more info, I will not be rushing out to buy one.
{header changed, as per the "please note" message at the start of this thread}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 07/04/2009 at 14:43
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I,m thinking of buying my first satnav. Can anyone recommend any particular make/model. I only want a basic U K version preferably with safety camera locations that doesn't require an annual subscription. Thanks in anticipation.
As per DD's earlier comment - header changed, as per the "please note" message at the start of this thread!!
Edited by Webmaster on 07/04/2009 at 19:16
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