A customer of mine has a 70k 52 plate Golf GTi 2.0 and it has spent 5 weeks of the last 3 months in the garage and is currently in again for an ECU issue. Its already had several sensors, 5 instances of warning lights popping on and other various electrical glitches and the short warranty it came with is soon to expire.
She has had enough of it and ive spotted a main dealer 2003 Impreza GX 5dr with 44k for reasonable money - my reputation is sort of on the line as I implied it would be the polar opposite of the Golf - just had a sudden doubt in myself - was it a safe statement as id hate her to buy another dog? In general I take it they are the usual Subaru fare in terms of reliability?
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Can't be as bad as a golf.
Not really the type of car a Golf GTI owner may wish for, of course.
Most people also would not wish to replace a car with another of the same age, so maybe an 05/06 model would be their choice ?
You say "reasonable money" - as you can pick up, for example, a 57 plate Impreza 1.5R for under 8 grand from a main dealer, maybe best to look at one of those - I imagine a 2.0 litre model would be under 10 grand for a similar age ?
www.iangrievesubaru.co.uk/Home.aspx
Edited by Lygonos on 26/01/2009 at 17:46
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Unfortunatly she spent most of the 'car money' buying the Golf and she said she doesnt wanna put too much more towards replacing the dog. Hers is the terrible 2.0 115 bhp GTi so I think the 2.0 Impreza would certainly be an equal performance wise.
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Shes got no more than £3500 to spend, Golf trade-in seems around the £2500 mark.
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Can maybe stretch a bit further for an 07 plate old 2.0 RX model from the same dealer - 10k miles. I'd assume there's a bit more to be chipped off, and a more local dealer can surely come up with similar.
If she wants an old car, buy the best you can find for under a grand.
Seriously: if it costs big it can be binned and you lose no more than a grand. Paying 2-3 grand buys an old car that may not be any more reliable but leaves you less able to dump it when it starts to cost.
Edited by Lygonos on 26/01/2009 at 17:52
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Well the idea of an Impreza is that it wont go wrong, thats the point of recommending one. I have an 03 car and mines been pretty reliable and mine cost 3 grand too.
Im not going to pressure a customer to spend money they dont have, she just wanted a solid recommendation and the Impreza seemed like a safe one - she has driven one and likes the car.
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Could equally apply to a Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Nissan Almera,etc, etc.
The problem you have in any recommedation is: Is THIS car a good one.
Looking at it on a forecourt won't answer that, no matter if it is a Fiat Bravo or a Rolls Royce Phantom.
I'd suggest never advise on individual cars unless you know all about the one you are advising on. Only make general suggestions about brands/models, and perhaps steer them towards this site/whatcar.com/etc.
Otherwise you risk damaging your relationship with your customer through no fault of your own if they end up with a lemon [unlikely, but sometimes even bulletproof cars can be shot ;-)]
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With the sort of budget involved, wouldn't a Ford Focus or similar be a better choice? Still reasonably reliable, and much much cheaper parts if needed.
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Of course, Im not recommending a specific car, I just pointed out one online that was an example of the model I was talking about at around her budget. I was also careful to point out one at a main dealer which you would hope would be in reasonable shape if she did go and look at it.
She does like Subarus and living in the countryside, cliche as it is, many of her neighbours own them and rave about them, but she was only vaguely aware of the Impreza as most have Foresters.
Her priorities are a nice drive and total reliability, or atleast as near as you can get, plus something on a par with her GTi in terms of performance. She also wanted a local dealer and Subaru is just a few miles away. As such, the Impreza 5dr seemed like the obvious choice.
I mentioned buying her employers Focus who is selling it and she said she hates them, so I would guess not.
This is someone who has owned VW's for 20 years, so to ween her off them, it would have to be a very decent car as even with the terrible reliability she has had with her last three Golfs ( 2 MK3s and a MK4 ) and 6 years of repair bills totalling £5k, she still hangs onto the idea of their solidity and build. She now admits its a myth but is obviously terrified of repeating her mistakes which I quite understand.
Given how well regarded Subaru are for the oily bits and the rarity of a bad one, it seems a reasonable suggestion. Just wondered if anyone ever does have a problem with these cars.
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Looking on the TUV website www.anusedcar.com and comparing makes and models it seems that an Impreza is less reliable than a Golf.
alfalfa
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CBC doesnt list much to look out for - has HJ overlooked something?
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Stu, I'm by no means knowledgeable on the subject but wasn't it a WhatCar survey which placed Subaru at the top of the most expensive car to have serviced? I'm afraid I don't have a link so you're probably best to ignore, but I do recall (in this one survey at least) that, while a BMW cost £232 to service, Subaru cost over £1k on average. I wondr if anyone can remember this?
But, it's worth remembering that the woodlouse on my desk is a mine of Subaru knowledge compared to me.
[Oh yes, tell her that if she hates Focuses, then she deserves one]
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£1k on average is absolute tosh. I know this because my local dealer has menu pricing and for my Forester they quoted £350 for a cambelt service.
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Since she 'hates' Focuses, and I guess is image conscious (otherwise why pay a huge premium for the 115bhp rrrrrubbish GTi) then I would recommend she looks at either an Outback or Forester from the Subaru range.
These have all the cachet of upper-class owners, without the connotations associated with Impreza turbo drivers.
A non-turbo Impreza has all the image of a limp sausage.
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Funny thing, shes not really image conscious and was just in the habit of buying Golf GTis because she had two very reliable MK2s and they cemented in her mind that the cars were great. Its taken three bad ones to change that mentality!
She doesnt like the Focus for reasons my other half would describe as 'because' - she thinks a P-reg Hilux pickup is a top motor because its practical and always starts - one has to understand the countryside mentality - very different from a townie.
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I'm now on my third Subaru (Legacy x2 and Impreza) and looking for a Forester for my wife so you may well guess my recommendation would be to get one. Servicing is not as expensive as people think, especially on a non-turbo, and although non-service bits can be expensive she'll likely as not never need any. Once it's out of warranty you can get OEM discs and pads etc. much cheaper. The quality of engineering is second to none. Some carp on about the interiors but look at a ten year old one. All intact and working. Quality is more than soft-touch plastics! Plus the newer ones at higher specs are a nice place to be.
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Thanks nick, first answer to my OP :-)
Im steering her towards the 2.0 GX 5dr around 2002-2003ish due to budget, plus the 2.0 seems to have decent poke but without the Turbos complexity. Im guessing mpg will be low 30's which is what she gets from her GTi. I think she would prob cry if she managed to get through 6 months without an unsceduled trip to the garage - its been so long since she had that experience.
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As I've probably said numerous times, I'm on Subaru No.7 at the moment covering the original Impreza Turbo, Forester, Legacy (old, old shape) Legacy (not quite as old shape) and now on Outback (new shape).
Several 100's of 1000,s of miles and I can hardly think of anything that has gone wrong.
The servicing on our 2.5 Outback SE has been reasonable (£200 - 250'ish) so where you get the £1k from is is anyones guess. We have a large bill coming up due to cambelt change and have been quoted this and full service for £500. Again, nothing at all has gone wrong, it is four years old now and still feels like new.
These cars last and will probably outlast your ownership ......
jdc
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I managed to find the link I was looking for and, though I was a bit out, the figures speak for themselves. If I read something in WhatCar, I tend to think it's more reliable than some bloke on a forum but, having read this thread, it seems that Subaru owners have never come across this sort of expense.
So I'm a bit confused.
tinyurl.com/dy5tv9)
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Hello FocusDriver, I clicked on that link and the cost it refers to is for repairs rather than servicing which might explain the difference.
Looking at that page the average age of Subarus in the sample was quite high 5.5 years as opposed to 3.0 for SAABs in the test and the annual mileage for the Subarus in the sample was a lot higher too which might explain why the costs looked higher.
I've only had to repalce one significant item - a back box on my exhaust after I grounded the car going too fast on the pot-holed track to my house and the cost of the part was a bit gruesome I seem to recall.
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Main dealer service on a Legacy 2.5 with cambelt change and usual consumables is £470 odd - I just had one done.
(edit: that was in answer to Focus Driver above)
Does anyone really know how to reply to particular postings, it seems completely random to me?
Edited by Nsar on 26/01/2009 at 22:44
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Does anyone really know how to reply to particular postings it seems completely random to me?
Just click on the "reply to" link under the post you are replying to.
Your post may not appear where you expect it to, but the layout will make more sense if you use the "view threaded" link at the top of the discusion to see how the posts are organised.
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er....I sort of guessed the bit about replying to the post I want to reply to :)
When I do, sometimes it appears under the post I've replied to, sometimes a few posts away and sometimes down at the bottom. I never change the way I look at the BR, so it's the BR that is behaving randomly and ever so slightly annoying.
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HI.
my 03 plate (last of the bug eye shape) impreza GX 2litre estate (sportwagon!!!)
was bought in Novmember 2008 for 4k with 29k and full dealer history from a main dealer.
service kits can be bought from subaru dealers on ebay for £40 (theres one in witney Oxon.)
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tyres for the GX are 15" dia and cost 44-78 depending upon brand, insurance group 14, and mine does 32mpg.
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the estate has hi/low ratio (handy if you need a workhorse) or the more sporty saloon doesn't have this. but does have slightly flaired wheel arches.
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mine has a full size steel spare wheel, and climate control as standard.
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things to check. it requires a cam belt at 5 years....so an 03 plate will be due or overdue a belt. "scoobysport" can do this for £175
service every 12k.
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0-60 is about 9.8 so not a super fast car, but nice for single track un-gritted roads and that engine (boxer) has a great burble at 3-4000 revs....
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not so nice, the gearbox isn't the smoothest thing in the world. and its worth buying clear fog light covers from EGR for £30 as the fog lights are expensive to replace.
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Paul.
subaru 2.0 GX sportwagon
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just to add. I also used to own a MK2 GOLF Driver 1.8 J plate in my yoof. (black)
and that gave me the biggest repair bill ever....£700 for rear suspension bushes and dampers from a main vw dealer in high wycombe....at 57k
at the time my girlfriend (now wife off 11 years) had a polo....1.3 ranger (5 speed!!!)
recently had a golf gt oil burner as a hire car with only 2k on the clock it had a ware hole in the gear lever boot......hmmm cost cutting seems to have hit...thing was it went really well, and gave a great mpg, but it didn't seem to be as solid as the old ones.
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Funnily enough, my mother in law had an Imprezza 2.0 Sports estate (mild 'sports' trim - not a full on WRX) and found it uncomfortable so swapped it for a Golf Mk IV diesel auto which she is very happy with!
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YEP GOOD POINT.
the front seats in the impreza are very figure hugging,
If we need to go on a long drive we take the other halfs volvo v40
with its armchair like leather seats....
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On our third Subaru in the family. No repairs ever I think, other than a holed air-con condenser which can happen to anyone.
Reasonable servicing charges for a 3.0 flat six and no cam belt to change on mine!
Did I say 16mpg?
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Staying very factual with this - my experience of motoring changed completely when I finally walked away from VW and went Jap (and I appreciate we all have different experiences). All of a sudden I was in a world where the only time you take a car to the garage is for MOT and servicing. Other than that everything just keeps going. I think it would apply to most other Jap models except the current Civic. That does not seem to be doing well in any reliability table. I think your reputation will remain safely intact stu. If my experience is anything to go by she will wonder why she even bothered with a European brand. (as I say - I appreciate we all have different experiences).
I'm sure others will tell her that the Jap cars won't have the character of a Golf - although I'm still waiting for someone to tell me where to find the character in a car - I keep looking under the bonnet........
Edited by Pendlebury on 27/01/2009 at 20:34
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I think Imprezas have plenty of character. My dad had a P-reg Turbo and I took every opportunity to go out with him in it. The noise is like nothingelse.
I had the chance to drive an R-reg Impreza 2.0 non-turbo and ive never forgotten just how brilliant it was to drive. I was 18 and its one of the few cars thats stuck in my mind.
I will report back if she goes ahead and buys something. I suspect she may do this time.
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