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Warning about Credit Hire - Chisser
In 2007 I was rearended by another driver who admitted liabilty but who's insurance company did not offer to repair my car or offer me a courtesy car.I was anxious not to lose my no claims bonus so I approached my Mercedes garage who put me in contact with a company who offered to get my car repaired and offer me a courtesy car which would be charged to the person who caused the accident.
However when I dropped off my car another company had hijacked the claim.They assured me I could not be held responsible for the cost of the car hire or repair unless the accident was subsequently found to be my fault (which it never has).
The repair went ahead taking some 23 days (much longer that I thought necessary) and I was lent an equivalent car for this period.
Though the other driver's company agreed to pay for the repair,they (rightfully in my view) declined to pay the £6,582.35 that the credit hire company charge for the BMW 5 series lent to me for 23 days.

They have now issued a summons against me for £7,234.23 to recover this amount.

Any advice would be welcome.I felt I was just trying to to protect my NCD as the other party had not offered to repair my car or lend me a car whilst doing so.

Is this extortion or illegal?
I am happy to name and shame if allowed to on this forum.
Jonathan

Edited by Honestjohn on 20/01/2009 at 19:06

Warning about Credit Hire - oldnotbold
£286/day for car rental - outrageous.

I can't quite work out how "when I dropped off my car another company had hijacked the claim"

Where did they get the claim data from, for a start? Do you have a counter-claim against the garage, or the company who "hijacked the claim"?

Hope you have good legal advice.

Edited by Honestjohn on 20/01/2009 at 19:06

Warning about Credit Hire - ole cruiser
>>another company had hijacked the claim.>>
Not sure quite what you mean by that. But I believe HJ regularly warns about credit hire companies muscling in.
Doesn't speak very well of your Mercedes dealer, does it?

Edited by Honestjohn on 20/01/2009 at 19:06

Clarification about Credit Hire - Chisser
The company based in snip cold-called me and I thought I was dealing with the Merc appointed company when I dropped the car off for repair.I was presented with a form to sign saying I'd be responsible for the hire costs of £ (left blank) and filled in only after the hire though I was assured I would not be resposible unless the RTA was my fault.

Should I try trading standards or report them to the police for attempted fraud?
?BBC Watchdog

Jonathan
PS I think my Merc dealer was blameless in this.

Edited by Honestjohn on 20/01/2009 at 19:07

Warning about Credit Hire - Dynamic Dave
I am happy to name and shame if allowed to on this forum.


Er, no.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=27804

Edited by Honestjohn on 20/01/2009 at 19:07

Warning about Credit Hire - Lygonos
Jonathan

I can reasonably confidently assure you that your Merc garage is NOT blameless in this, but is indeed complicit. Garages receive a commision based upon the length of time that you have the hire car for. This encourages them to drag their feet over repair times.

I had the same experience in almost identical circumstances with a CR-V that was rear-ended. It took 4 weeks to repair and the credit hire company are in the process of sueing the 3rd party's insurance for reimbursement.

After reading the bumf that came with the hire car, I opted to pay £10 for an insurance policy to cover the cost of any shortfall of the hire, as I felt there would be a possible legal challenge to the presumption that you are entitled to a "like-for-like" replacement vehicle while waiting for your own to be repaired. AFAIK the legal entitlement is there, but you must "mitigate any expenses incurred, relating to the claim" - I could reasonably argue for a family sized car, but many others will not if they don't NEED a car of such size.

Last I heard (approx 9 mths after the initial hire) I needed to sign some forms for the credit hire companies to sign.
Warning about Credit Hire - Pauln6
With prestige vehicles, you do generally need to show a particular reason to use a replacement prestige vehicle because the daily hire rates are so high. For all 'normal' people there is a strong presumption that you can hire a like for like car. You don't have to prove that you couldn't have managed with a smaller car. In practice the argument doesn't come up when dealing with ordinary vehicles.

Obviously, if you are happy with a smaller car and you tell them that you are willing to accept a smaller car, don't be bullied into a bigger car just to earn the hire company more money!

SQ

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/03/2009 at 18:39

Warning about Credit Hire - mikeyb
I used one of these outfits a few years back. I hear many negative stories, but to be honest mine was positive. They discussed at length with me the circumstances of my accident before agreeing that I was more than likely the injured party and that they would give me a car. The cost was more or less what it would have cost me to hire one from a rental company, and they asked me to pay £10 for a waiver type insurance that would reimburse them for the car in the event that they could not claim their costs back. All worked well, and my liability was limited to the £10, but I got that back in the end along with my excess.
Warning about Credit Hire - jbif
.. Though the other driver's company agreed to pay for the repair,they (rightfully in my view) declined to pay the £6,582.35 that the credit hire company charge for the BMW 5 series lent to me for 23 days. ... >>


What does your contract with the credit hire company say?

Previous post on this forum refer to case-law regarding people in similar situation to yourself. Also, Honestjohn has a FAQ on this subject:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=126
" ... Do not use any kind of 'accident management company'. They are mostly trying to rope you into an expensive hire car (one reader got a bill of £29,000 for 3 months hire). .. "

Warning about Credit Hire - Pugugly
Have you sought legal advice ? I think you need it pretty urgently....the last thing in the current climate is a county court finding.....
Warning about Credit Hire - oldnotbold
A useful page here on the ABI website: www.abi.org.uk/TPHire/

www.abi.org.uk/TPHire/SupportingDocuments/Car_rate...c details the maximum daily rate for all classes/sizes of private car/MPV/4x4
Warning about Credit Hire - whistleblower
Hi Jonathan,

I'd suggest turning over all case material, invoices and summons over to your insurers choice of solicitor. Not exactly making a claim on your policy but rather utilising your legal assistance cover. The associated solicitor should be able to defend you against the outstanding hire charges and force the credit hire company to accept a compromised offer for the charges from the other driver's company. The daily cost of providing you with the hire car was no more than £95 so even if the other drivers company offered half of the hire charges, it's still a profit for the credit hire company.

You must report this to BBC Watchdog asap. They're getting loads of similar complaints and the bubble is gonna burst on the credit hire industry very soon. I know, I spent the last 9 years working through the ranks.

I believe legislative reform is well overdue on this matter and the more we lobby, there's a good chance that all summons made against credit hire customers may well become void.

Good luck!

Warning about Credit Hire - oldnotbold
"The daily cost of providing you with the hire car was no more than £95"

How do you calculate that figure?
Warning about Credit Hire - dacouch
www.abi.org.uk/TPHire/
Warning about Credit Hire - dacouch
Snip quote... no need to quote all of the previous post by whistleblower :-)

It is pointless him turning it over to his own Insurance Companies Solicitors, they will not be interested. His accident was not his fault so they will not need to defend the claim.

He needs to speak to the credit hire company and get them to accept a reasonable amount for the hire (They often have to negioate their prices down) as per the attached price guide lines which the Association of Britich Insurers publish as a guide line to their members to try and bring some sanity to the crazy world of Credit Hire. The accident is clearly not you fault so the other Insurers will probably pay out if the credit hire company ask for a reasonable amount especially as you gave them the chance to provide you with a car.

I agree with the other poster the Mercedes Garage almost certainly received around £150 for recommending you to the credit hire company.

Edited by rtj70 on 11/02/2009 at 18:58

Warning about Credit Hire - Pauln6
Don't worry too much, this sort of argument is very common. As the accident victim, you can't be criticised if the garage was slow in completing repairs - there can be loads of reasons (sickness, snow, delays on parts, strikes, or just a general backlog). The insurers have to sue the garage if they think they were negligent or deliberate. Mostly it's just one of those things - they don't work from start to finish on one car to allow drying time etc and so repair work isn't like a conveyor belt.

The credit hire company can only charge a 'reasonable local spot rate' so their charges are often reduced via negotiation. It is almost unheard of for them to pursue any shortfall against customers because:

a) When they took the claim on they assured you that the charges would be recoverable.

b) As experts they already know that they can only charge a reasonable rate. They would be estopped in equity from pursuing the shortfall due to their own overcharging as long as you:

i) haven't misled them about your need for the hire vehicle
ii) co-operate with the recovery process

Hope that helps!
Warning about Credit Hire - TheOilBurner
Just to add my voice to the warnings:

I too was rear-ended by another car last June. I insisted to my insurance that I wanted it sorted at a main dealer, and upon phoning the dealer they put me through to a well known accident management company, who deals with all such work that comes their way.

The third party admitted liability and their insurer was happy to pay up at this point.

The accident management company gave me a brand new S80 D5, fully loaded, so very literally equivalent to my car, only 3 years newer.

The repair took about 3 weeks and my car was returned to me (not a brilliant job, I might add, I had to send it back for another go..), I gave back the loan S80 and all seemed well.

However, the third party insurers were not so happy. They were expecting to pay for the repair costs and for the cover of a "like-for-like" hire car, but they considered that the car I'd been given was taking that a little too literally... So they offered an amount of repairs + a percent of the hire costs. I don't know how much exactly.

So weeks dragged into months, with the occasional update from my accident management company to tell me what was going on, or not as the case seemed to be.

Eventually, by November the situation was that the third party insurer wasn't going to budge without legal action, so the accident management company simply wrote off the difference. They didn't ask me for the money, so I was lucky, I guess. They were at least true to their word that I wouldn't be liable for anything, as long as I was genuinely not at fault for the accident.

So, I'm not going to bad mouth the accident management company because my car was properly repaired and I didn't have to pay a penny.
However, it was quite stressful for me at the time, because I couldn't help but wonder if the bill might land on my doorstep at some point, especially when it looked like legal action was going to commence.

Would I do it again? No, not until the law is clarified on exactly what a fair like-for-like replacement is actually defined as and all the insurance companies can agree on it.
Warning about Credit Hire - Mapmaker
A friend is a barrister who specialises in this sort of case - spends a lot of time in court on it too.

Only accept a "credit hire" (i.e. one for which you do not pay up front) car if you cannot afford to hire a car yourself. You will need to prove this inability - evidence of using your overdraft, not being able to borrow on credit card etc. etc.

If you can afford it, hire a car yourself at the "spot rate" - i.e. from Hertz, and pay cash, and reclaim the cost (including credit card interest costs if that's the only way you can afford it) from the insurance company.

You have no entitlement whatsoever to a "like-for-like" hire car. So hire the cheapest thing you can get away with. If you're taking 5 rugger players in your car, then you're not expected to hire a Corsa, but if it's just you, and you just go shopping in it, then I'm afraid that you won't be able to justify a 7-series.


These credit hire companies make their money by:

1) charging way over the odds for the privilege of financing your car hire - as it may be some months before they are paid by the InsCo then they do need to charge a premium

2) pointing out in the contract you signed (but failed to read) that if they cannot recover the costs from the third party then they are reclaimable from YOU.
Warning about Credit Hire - Westpig
some credit hire companies are better than others...the good ones will advise you that you personally will never be liable for the costs...but...if push comes to shove, they might have to instigate proceedings against you (the only way they can achieve it as you are the hirer of the car), in an attempt to get an insurer to pay...but ultimately they would not expect you to cough up personally

i had this in the past (about 6 years ago) when one of them gave me a Merc C200K for a month in lieu of my Jag S Type. I was worried about it and after a week rang the company to clarify and at my insistence they sent me a letter confirming that I wouldn't have to pay anything..but I did have to agree to support them as a witness etc if anything went to court. As it happens after a long and weary yarn (they weren't willing to risk court, the insurer had runs for the hills and my legal cover paid with the insurance premium was useless, as they were representing the insurance company in reality, not me)...they did not get their money... and they never chased me at all. That particular company i would have no hesitation in recommending.

More recently, (3 months ago) something similar with my wife's car. This time things did not go well, as the company concerned does not have a very good reputation in the industry (gleaned from one of my sisters who works in that sort of game)...however there was no difficulty with me having to pay...(just a difficulty in getting any kind of car out of them in the first place as they wanted so many 'i's dotted and 't's crossed it was ridiculous). This particular company i would advise to avoid at all costs, although I did get a Land Rover Discovery 3 out of them for 2 weeks, in lieu of a Jag X Type estate (but did need to cart around a baby and 2 dogs on holiday, so had a half reasonable excuse).

HJ's advice of avoiding them, would seem good advice really, because despite the fact you get a far better motor to drive around in when it's someone else's fault, the hassle that goes with it isn't really worth it..and.. obviously it pushed up the costs.

In the 1st example, my accident repairer recommended the company, when the repairer had a delay in providing a courtesy car, mine being undriveable. In my 2nd example, my wife's insurer actually recommended it right from the word go and asked if we'd mind using them (as a means no doubt of them not having to bother with the claim), which i find a little surprising, as when the boot's on the other foot, they have to pay out more.

Warning about Credit Hire - Mapmaker
It is FAR simpler to go directly to the third party's insurance company, and they will provide you with a hire car & do the repairs.

Cheaper for them, cheaper and easier for you.
Warning about Credit Hire - R75
It is FAR simpler to go directly to the third party's insurance company and they
will provide you with a hire car & do the repairs.
Cheaper for them cheaper and easier for you.


Thats what is currently happening with my mother. Her car was hit by an OAP whilst he attempted to park in a shop car park. He admitted fault. Next day his insurers called my mother were prepared to take car away to be repaired etc, but she wants is done a particular place, the insurers just want an estimate and then will give the go ahead and sort out a replacement car for the duration. Very easy all the way so far.


But I have also used an accident management company in tbe past when my car was hit when parked outside my house. They were easy to deal with, sorted me out a reasonable car, Toyota Corolla D4 for my Honda Prelude. I would use them again happily if need be.
Warning about Credit Hire - Pauln6
Yikes! I've spent over 10 years dealing with PI, non-PI, and credit hire claims. I even had some peripheral involvement in some of the test cases over the years. None of the statements below are strictly true in law. This is the sort of thing that insurers tell accident victims to encourage them to keep costs down. This is also why I tell people to be wary of going direct to insurance companies - you might think you are getting a good deal but maybe you aren't! I would have to guess that your barrister friend represents a lot of insurers in court - lol.

You don't have to be broke to credit hire. Mrs Dimond in Dimond v Lovell was a bank manager and the Law Lords said they might fancy using credit hire themselves.

If you are happy and can manage with smaller vehicle then do so. If you want an equivalent vehicle you do NOT have to hire 'the cheapest thing you can get way with' (go read the House of Lords decision in Giles v Thompson or the Court of Appeal's decision in Mattocks v Mann if you are that keen). You can't be forced to downgrade but at the same time there is no point screwing the cost of an equivalent vehicle out of an insurer if you aren't bothered. You just have to behave reasonably.

The main disadvantage of paying up front for spot hire is that the insurers may be not be willing to pay you back if the other driver hasn't filled out a claim form. They can take up to 3 months to investigate currently and there is not much you can do other than suing them if they take longer than 3 months. There is talk of the period being reduced to 15 days with penalities if they take longer. If that happens, it may be that paying up front will be less of a risk, although even then they might still decide to dispute liability following the 15-day period.

Some credit hire companies do charge too much but I think this is to counteract the fact that insurers take so long to pay out on the claims (3 months+ on average). Once the turnaround increases most of the good companies will bring their prices down.

SQ

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 09/03/2009 at 18:51

Warning about Credit Hire - oldnotbold
"Once the turnaround increases most of the good companies will bring their prices down."

What incentive does a credit-hire co. have to reduce its prices? The person who pays the bill is not the person who decides to use them.
Warning about Credit Hire - jacks
I had a really bad experience a few years ago.

I was rear ended & needed a replacement car for a 100 mile round trip commute.

At the repairers - when I went for the estimate - they gave me literature from a very well known credit hire company.

I hired a basic Escort for my commute.

My car was returned and the CH car collected but 3 months later a got an unpleasant solicitors letter from the CH company's solicitors demanded payment in full.

Basically the car that hit me turned out to be driven by a low life with no insurance (he had given false details at the scene - his wife's policy # but he was not on that policy)

He was eventually sued by my Ins company for the cost of repairs but due to admin errors the CH company's costs (the hire car cost) were not applied for at court and were not included in the full and final settlement.

Hence they then came after me with ever increasing threatening letters, talk of balifs etc

I spoke to AA legal who advised that in the small print I was liable for hire costs as I had hired the car - despite the "you will never be charged" in their literature.

Eventually did some research and found the CH Co MD's name and wrote personally outlining the position, asking him to consider waiving the charge in line with the spirit of the companys advertising - but pointing out that if I did end up paying I would send the file to BBC Watchdog, What Car etc etc as a cautionary tale for other motorists and - he wrote back offering to waive all costs as a matter of "goodwill".

I'd never use a CH co again.

Jacks
Warning about Credit Hire - Mapmaker
>>None of the statements below are strictly true in law.

I never claimed my statements to be a strict statement of the law. I merely repeat some pragmatic advice to anybody in the backroom tempted to take out a CH agreement, on the grounds that the source of the advice was somebody who deals with a significant number of these cases.


That said, I think we're broadly in agreement... ;)

Warning about Credit Hire - Pauln6
>> My car was returned and the CH car collected but 3 months later a got
an unpleasant solicitors letter from the CH company's solicitors demanded payment in full.
Basically the car that hit me turned out to be driven by a low life
with no insurance (he had given false details at the scene - his wife's policy
# but he was not on that policy)
He was eventually sued by my Ins company for the cost of repairs but due
to admin errors the CH company's costs (the hire car cost) were not applied for
at court and were not included in the full and final settlement.
Hence they then came after me with ever increasing threatening letters talk of balifs etc


Ouch! This is a real, albeit very rare, risk - you have to be liable for the hire charges for them to be recovered from the insurers in the first place. However, in all normal circumsntances the credit hire companies would be really hard pressed to get their money back from you directly. The courts would invoke 'equitable' remedies like estoppel to protect you unless you had been dishonest or uncooperative.

In this case they were trying to invoke a 'non-cooperation' clause because the hire charges were not included in the court proceedings. They should have been liaising with your insurers really. Either communication broke down so it was 50/50 fault between CHO & insurers or it was enitrely your insurers' fault for the oversight. Worse case scenario would have been that your insurers would have had to pay.

You might have been found responsible if your insurers had asked you if you had anything else to claim and you said no, because it would be your fault that the hire charges were left out of the proceedings (although I would still argue that it was the job of the credit hirers to talk to your insurers).

I guess the bottom line is that if you sign up to one of these contracts you have to be aware that you can't just shrug your shoulders after you hand the car back and say it's not my problem. Also, if you hadn't hired a credit hire car you would not have been able to commute or you would have paid up front for a car that might have been left out of the proceedings as well. In some ways you were better off, in spite of the stress.

It isn't always fair to blame the credit hire companies in these situations but you did the right thing standing your ground. They should have been keeping closer tabs on your insurers in my view - proceedings could have been amended if they'd been on the ball.
Warning about Credit Hire - jacks
You might have been found responsible if your insurers had asked you if you had
anything else to claim and you said no because it would be your fault that
the hire charges were left out of the proceedings (although I would still argue that
it was the job of the credit hirers to talk to your insurers).

That is - in effect - what happened.

I had a note from my insurer advising me that they were going to take court action and would I be willing to be a witness etc, and a footnote to ask if had suffered any other loss.

I said no other losses because I assumed that the CH co would be persuing a separate claim for the hire cost using their own solicitor. I had assumed that there would be 2 separate actions, one for each loss (the repairs and the hire car cost) each action dealt with by the organisation that had paid out the monies.

I hadn't realised (nor had it been made clear to me ) that there would be one court case where "full settlement " would take place. (In the end I didn't have to appear).

I did advise - at the time - my insurers that I was taking up a CH car.

I didn't feel I had done anything wrong - and still don't - as nothing was explained to me. But I can see how it happened. the communication was poor.

The attitude of the CH co was - we can't get our money via the court so we will get it from you. The letters from their solicitors were terrible, bullying and threatening. Saying that I would lose my credit rating if judgement was awarded, balifs seizing goods etc.

That why I wrote to the MD - if you know the industry you will know who he is (was?) as this company were the largest and one of the original CH companies.

J
Warning about Credit Hire - Pauln6
I had a note from my insurer advising me that they were going to take
court action and would I be willing to be a witness etc and a footnote
to ask if had suffered any other loss.


MEGASNIPQUOTE - Please don't quote the whole message you're replying to!!


Yeah this is a very common mistake for lay people to make. In fact, most people just think that they have no losses because the car is 'free'. The problem is lack of communication between the insurers and CH company but also between the CH company and the customers. Many customers move house and don't inform the CH companies where they are going and then say, sorry I thought it was all sorted. It's a wider problem with insurance claims - most people have no clue how long they take to sort and most companies don't send letters every week saying, 'Still ongoing'.

You might have been on slightly dodgy legal footing because you actively told your insurers you had no losses - even if they were aware of the CHO involvement, they would have had no way to know that the hire claim hadn't been settled. If you had at least reminded them of the credit hirers involvement you would have been on very firm ground but it seems clear that the CHO fumbled the ball too. In a case like that they should have made sure that your insurers were aware of the hire charges and that is where the buck would have stopped. It is quite possible that if matters had gone further you could have got hold of your file of papers and it would have shown nominal contact with your insurers. It might have saved you completely if they had not been conducting the claim with reasonable care and skill.

The rule of thumb is if you receive any letters from a CHO or any letters from any of the insurers, make sure you call or send copies to everybody else involved. Believe it or not none of this is really that controversial - it's all basic negligence law and contract law - it's just a nightmare for anybody caught up in this kind of dispute!

I may well know the director of whom you speak! Some of them are pink fluffy dice but no more so than the directors of any other company. ;) I'm not a fan of any bullying letters from anybody - that's one of the reasons why I'm a bit anti-insurer - they sometimes misquote the law to frighten people into waiving their entitlements. It's all part of the game sadly.

Edited by Webmaster on 11/03/2009 at 23:52

Warning about Credit Hire - J500ANT
I've had CH cars in the distant past and more recently.

The company from the late 90s insisted I had like for like, M&S vouchers for taking their services etc. Recently my insurers asked Enterprise to assist me, and they asked why I needed a car of a similar size to my Jetta. I replied honestly that I had a trip to Cornwall planned with a wheelchair user and space was paramount. They had no quibbles with that, and gave me a Ford Galaxy auto to use - at the cost of a mid range auto (which from memory was £42/day - the Galaxy £70/day) However they did say that in general, unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, they give out a car from the next class down.

As an aside, my partner used THE big name in this business when his car was hit - they rented him a Vectra from their own extensive fleet, the only rate I remember was the one day rate £106 (for a 1.8 poverty model). He had that from end of Nov til end of Jan - we didnt get a final run down of the total charges but at the day rate we could have owned that car!
Warning about Credit Hire - Pauln6
As an aside my partner used THE big name in this business when his car
was hit - they rented him a Vectra from their own extensive fleet the only
rate I remember was the one day rate £106 (for a 1.8 poverty model). He
had that from end of Nov til end of Jan - we didnt get a
final run down of the total charges but at the day rate we could have
owned that car!


Strewth! I've seen rates at £50-60 for one day but that's ludicrous. Mind you some of them have deals with the insurers. They get vastly discounted rates if they pay within 28 days. For every month they delay after that the charges go up until they hit the ceiling rate entered onto the contract so I suppose only the really slow insurers would end up paying such inflated sums. They'd never get those rates in court!
Warning about Credit Hire - mare
Allow me to display some shocking naivete;

Are Drive Assist a Credit Hire company?
Warning about Credit Hire - Westpig
Are Drive Assist a Credit Hire company?

yes....they'll do just the car hire bit...or..will do both i.e. the accident claim and the car hire
Warning about Credit Hire - mare
Thanks Westpig.

In my case, i have given Drive Assist my other party's insurance details, and noted on my out of pocket expenses claim form that i assumed Drive Assist would be claiming direct.

I'm sure that it's not deliberate, but i was put in touch with Drive Assist in the same phone call to my insurer when i notified the claim. Most people could be forgiven for thinking that Drive Assist were Zurich's car hire department, it's not made clear that they're separate and you the customer have any obligation to keep these companies in the loop. I can see how the above instances arise, and it just seems to be poor briefing and communication.

I actually declined the Drive Assist car at first because i planned to use our spare car. Unfortunately the battery had gone flat and i needed wheels so i asked Drive Assist for a car - anything that drove. I got a SAAB 9-3 2.0 Aero, which could be construed as like for like with an Impreza WRX being they're both 2 litre turbo petrols.

I can't remember what i put on the claim form here and now. I'll check and if need be advise my legal people that Drive Assist provided the car so as not to leave them out.

Warning about Credit Hire - Woody711
Hi John,

I used to be the M.D. of a similar prestige credit hire company.

I have only just noticed your post but please let me if you're still having problems.

In short, it is extremely unlikely that the company who hired you the car can legitimately sue you for the cost of the hire charges.

If you would like some FOC advice drop me an email and you can give me a call.

All the best

Mike
Warning about Credit Hire - woodster
What exactly is a 'credit hire' company?? Hiring you a car on credit? can someone just fill me in briefly please. And are the garages introducing the for a kickback?
Warning about Credit Hire - Bill Payer
It's supposed to be for people who have their cars damaged by another party and they can't afford to hire themselves a replacement, so they use a credit hire company.

The whole premise is deeply flawed, especially with credit hire companies telling people they're "entitled to" a like-for-like replacement which they then bill the 3rd party for at huge expense. The other insurance company may refuse to pay, and if it ends up in court then in theory the judge could ask you demonstrate that you couldn't afford to hire the car yourself.

Any accident managemnt service that you see promoted by a garage or motoring organisation will involve a kickback. What I can't understand it why insurance companies themselves sometimes use these outfits, where it's clear the other party is at fault.
Warning about Credit Hire - jbif
What exactly is a 'credit hire' company?? >>


HJ anticipated your question, as he has a FAQ on it.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=33

" .... ..... .... What is Credit Hire? "

then about half way down that page, see "CREDIT HIRE: .... "

Warning about Credit Hire - woodster
Thanks all. I note the suggestion that the proliferation of credit hire companies is pushing up our premiums. Probably that and increased injury claims. Nothing is for nothing to quote the article.
Warning about Credit Hire - steve r

Hello All

New to this forum, looking for help, i also have fallen into this CH hole, i have just received a request for payment of £15000, this has come as a shock.

My story; my girlfriends car was hit by a third party, in our driveway, only minor damage was done, but the wing mirror was broken, she spoke to her insurer and as it is an old car with third party insurance they passed her over to Drive Assist, who told her she qualified for a hire car as our was unroadworthy due to the broken mirror, so she agreed, with the usual promise that all costs would be covered by the 3rd party insurance.

My girlfriend was at work the next day and DA turned up gave me a hire car and got me to sign, what i thought was a receipt for the car delivery which transpires to a credit hire agreement beteween me and DA, i knew very little about this at the time and feel very naive and hard done by, all the time i was assured that the third party would pay.

The 3rd party denied involvement, although we have cctv pictures of the incident, showing the minor collsion, this carried on for 9 months before they took the car back, our car still not repaired.

Finally DA put me in contact with one of their solicitors on a no win no fee basis, they dropped the case because although the collision can be seen, the damage was not sufficient to warrant the hire. At all times i told the the extent of the damage, i sent them the cctv, i sent them pictures of the damage, was in constant contact with them asking who would pay and told the third party would pay.

I have arranged a meeting with a local solictor to at least get the ball rolling with recovery for the costs of the original damage, its only £450, but what can i do about the Drive Assist situation.

I am now left with a bill for £15000, which i can not pay, i feel i have done all that has been asked of me but i've been shafted. What can i do? Any help or guidance appreciated.

Warning about Credit Hire - LucyBC
If you have CCTV that shows the third party was involved then as long as the car is clearly identifiable then you have a claim against the third party for the damage and their insurer should settle it.

With regard to the Credit Hire agreement it is almost certainly invalid, firstly because the credit hire company should have known better than to supply you with a replacement vehicle for this period in these circumstances. They are not abrogated from responsibility just because they gulled you into signing an agreement.

Secondly unless you signed a new agreement every three months, the agreement is almost certainly invalidated. There cannot be a single agreement in place for more than three months. Unless you kept signing new agreements then the first agreement is invalidated ab initio (from the beginning) and they cannot recover from you.

If you contact me via Honest John I can get this case dealt with for you either using your legal insurance (if you are a sensible person and have any) and very likely if not on a conditional fee basis.
Warning about Credit Hire - LucyBC
I have been asked to provide more details as to my previous answer.

Under the standard credit hire contract terms (to which your hirer has to be a signatory as a Tier One provider) the Credit Hire contract only applies for a period of three months and if the period is exceeded Condition 9 applies.

So unless the hirer's vehicle was replaced with an alternative and you signed a new contract within the three month period then the contract is null and void ab initio - meaning the contract is void from the outset and leaving you with no liability whatsoever.

This is probably not an area of law for an amateur, nor indeed for a solicitor who probably does a bit of family law in the morning and a little light conveyancing in the afternoon. So if you need this dealt with contact me via asklucy@honestjohn.co.uk
Warning about Credit Hire - LucyBC

I have checked the back catalogue on this thread and there are some posts which are plainly wrong and need to be corrected.

1. Means has no relevance whatsoever. If you were not at fault then whether you can afford to hire your own car or not will not affect your position. There is case law to support this and the only insurer which has consistently refused to accept it operates from outside the British jurisdiction and appears very likely to be going into receivership.

2. You are entitled to like-for-like. The principles of tort - on which all such claims are based - imply you should not be disadvantaged in any way by damage which is not your fault. So if you drive a prestige car you don't have to step down to a rollerskate or catch the bus because some numpty ran into you.

There are some credit hire scams and some bad companies but in general terms credit hire firms and accident managers can provide a useful service.

There are some rules:

  • never use a credit hirer which is not First Tier ABI approved. You can check at http://apps.abi.org.uk/tphire/firsttier/default.asp
  • don't assume that because they were referred by your insurer or broker the credit hirer or accident manager are respectable - there is a very good chance that the insurer or broker are only referring them because they are paid commission
  • don't use a credit hire company unless they provide a written guarantee that you will not be charged for any hire unless the information you give them is untrue or fraudulent

If you need assistance with an accident then there are a number of very good companies which will be able to deal with it - recovering your vehicle, getting you home, sorting out repairs and dealing with insurance issues.

The problem is working out who they are - but there is a very good chance they are not your insurer and they certainly are not the claims department of the at-fault party's insurer - as seems to have been previously suggested.

Warning about Credit Hire - steve r

Lucy, thank you for putting my mind to rest, i will contact in person.

Warning about Credit Hire - Chrissyl2006

Hi

I wonder if you can help me.

I was hit from behind yesterday in my car and the other party has admitted full liability. His insurance company have contacted me to say that because my insurance company are going to give me a courtesy car (which I pay for on my policy) through Enterprise Car Hire, that unless I go through his insurance company instead of my own, which I do not want to do, that they will not pay for my courtesy car as it is credit hire, and I will be left to pay for it even though I was not at fault which they admit, and I have paid for a courtesy car on my insurance policy.

I contacted my insurer who seem to think this is a load of rubbish and they are just trying to bully me into using them directly to keep their costs down.

Who is right? I'm really confused and finding this very stressful. I can't believe I can only have a free courtesy car if I go direct with his insurer?? Surely it is not up to them to tell me I have to do that?

Any advice would be most welcome.

Thanks.

Warning about Credit Hire - LucyBC

Chrissy it's a non-fault claim on your part so the third party insurer will try and drive down costs and stuff you any way they can locking you into repairers which work for them, not for you.

Because these "approved" repairers rely on the third party's insurer for work the tendency is for them to drive down costs and cut corners for their insurance company client. So you lose out and they don't do the repair as you might expect them to.

You need someone who is working for you - and not the third party insurer who will deal with the claim to your satisfaction.

If you email me at lucy.bonhamcarter@autolaw.co.uk or call me on 0117 383 0221 I can give confidential advice as to how to proceed.

The good news is there is no charge for any advice I give you.

Warning about Credit Hire - UB123

Dear Lucy,

Thank you for your advise on this forum-however I wonder if you can also help me also?

Background:

I was involved in an accident Dec 2009. It was a dispute. Although the accident was not stricly caused my be, later I was found to be partially at fault as apparantly over speeding of 3rd party was not seen as a reason to stand up in court.

Initailly I approached an accident management company (United Accident Group) for believing it was a good way to save my no cliams bonus so opted for one to assist in the matter rather than go directly through my own insurance company. And so the problem began. I notified my own insurance company of my accident.

This particular AMC who took on my case advertised to be no risk regardless of outcome and that they provided a courtesy car from a company called Britannia whilst my car was being repaired. It had all been arranged via this company and when a car was given to me, i was asked to sign paper and was informed it was for insurance incase I had an accident whilst driving this car. All i was explained was i would have to pay £500 excess incase I had an accident whilst driving the courtesy car and sign if I agree which i did. Nothing about a credit hire vehicle was mentioned by the staff of Britannia at delivery.

My own car was repaired by late Jan 2010 and I came to collect my car dropping the courtesy car at the AMCs garage. The whole incident seemed to go on from piller to post with me not being able to speak to anyone from the AMC. Numerous calls to this AMC asking them to clarify what was going on about the dispute and I found it increasingly difficult to speak to anyone. I was given a solicitors contact who where dealing with this matter however due to the lack of communication via the AMC etc the appointed solicitors dropped the case stating the lack on professionalism demonstrated by this AMC. Later that year I was recieving many letters from Britannia and also 3rd party insureres-again I contacted the AMC late summer 2010 who stated I send all the paper work to them. It was arranged for one of them to collect the paperwork from me at my home address-the owner came. He reasured me the matter was being handled and that I had nothing to worry about as I had comprehensive cover. Again I skantly heard from him and the number he gave, he wouldnt pick up. Later in winter 2010, i recieved a summons to appear in court for a personal injury claim from 3rd party. It soon became clear this AMC was not professional or legit and contacted my insurance company who appointed a solicitor to resolve the matter who advised me that the independent wittneess that the police provided for me had gone to Germany and was not available so i couldnt dispute fault. I assumed matter was closed by Feb 2011.

However, i now have recieved a letter from Britannia Augest 2011 stating that I owe them over £11000 for the cost of the replacement car for dates a bit longer than i had the car and that I must pay the cost of the hired vehicle or expect court proceedings.

I am charged with 57days hire at £165 per day. I tried to contact the AMC again to no avail. I also have found out the Britannia has gone into administration.

I am at loss with how misleading such companies are but ever more concerned at what to do now. My then insurance company have suggested they can assist with the repair costs only and that the credit hire arrangement is not for them help with.

Please will you help?

Warning about Credit Hire - ifithelps

...Please will you help?...

UB123,

Lucy has left the forum.

Your case is a mess, but here are a few observations.

The personal injury claim is nothing to do with the accident management company, it is a matter for your insurers, so you should refer it to them.

When you engaged the accident management company, they should have offered you a separate insurance policy - usually at a nominal cost of £10 - which pays out in the event they cannot recover the cost of the hire.

This insurance is cheap because the accident management company only takes on cases it is confident of winning.

You say the car hire company - Britannia - is in administration.

It looks to me as if the administrators are doing what they are supposed to do - trying to recover every penny owed to the company they are administering.

I would contact the administrators to explain the situation, and point out the £10 insurance policy, if you have it.

If there is no such policy, you may be in some difficulty.

Warning about Credit Hire - UB123

Thank you for your reply ifithelps.

Yes you are quite right, this is a mess.

Warning about Credit Hire - Mapmaker

I have checked the back catalogue on this thread and there are some posts which are plainly wrong and need to be corrected.

1. Means has no relevance whatsoever. If you were not at fault then whether you can afford to hire your own car or not will not affect your position. There is case law to support this

Interesting, Lucy. When was this? I guess it was during 2008 that a barrister friend, who does a lot of credit hire cases, told me that using credit hire was not - unless you could not otherwise afford to hire a car - did not represent mitigating the loss.

Warning about Credit Hire - oxymoron
Credit hire law is a very niche area and a bit of a minefield. I've worked on both sides so like to think I have a reasonably objective view of it all.

Contrary to previous posts, a claimant's financial means is very relevant to the recoverability of credit hire charges, and I'll try to explain why.

If you are unfortunate enough to be involved in a non-fault accident, and you sign up for the services of a credit hire company, you don't just get a replacement car. You also get the additional benefits of being provided with interest free credit, fault assessment, litigation assistance, claims handling services, legal expenses insurance and all the other little perks that an accident management or 'credit hire' company provides (not forgetting also their slice of profit on top!).

There is nothing wrong in a victim of a non fault accident utilising this type of 'credit hire' service and it is not unreasonable for them to do so.

However, only the costs of an equivilent *replacement car* are recoverable from a negligent driver (or, in practice, their insurer). All the other additional services and benefits referred to above which are provided by a credit hire company are irrecoverable in law (Dimond v Lovell) . As a result a claimant is only entitled to recover what a *replacement car* would have cost from a normal 'spot hire' company - I.e. Hertz, and I.e much less!!!

Even more confusingly, there is an exception to this rule. A claimant can recover the full costs of a credit hire service in the event that he had no choice of hiring from a 'spot hire' company because of a lack of financial means (Lagden v O'Connor).

So, in practice, anyone who finds themselves caught up in a legal battle between a credit hire company who provided them with a vehicle on one side and a third party insurer on the other, WILL be asked to provide evidence of their financial means.

However, in most cases whether they could have afforded to 'spot hire' or not is largely irrelevant to the claimant themselves. Provided that they give reasonable assistance to the hire company or thier solicitors in any legal proceedings, the hire company will have to pick up any shortfall. They know this and fully expect it.

In my experience it is very very rare that a hire company would pursue a claimant for recovery of the hire charges, or any shortfall. It would probably only be in the event of an outright refusal to cooperate in any claim. For anyone who did find themselves in this situation, my advise would be to shout and scream about it as loud as you posible can to any media who will listen - and the CEO of the credit hire company. Also take independent legal advice, as you would almost certainly have a defence to any such claim.

Hope that helps.






Warning about Credit Hire - oxymoron

Should also say that there are other issues affecting recoverability of credit hire charges, not just whether a claimant can afford alternative hire or not. That just relates to whether the full *rate* of hire is recoverable.

The *need* to hire is also often raised. You cannot recover hire charges if you did not need to hire a vehicle. In most cases the very fact that you had a vehicle in the first place and lost the use of it through a non-fault accident is good evidence that you needed a replacement, although if you had a fleet of other vehicles which could have been used instead, or, if you were away on holiday and the hire car was sat on your drive doing nothing, then the hire charges will be not be recoverable. Similarly there is no *automatic* entitlement to a like for like vehicle.

Edited by oxymoron on 28/08/2010 at 01:33

Warning about Credit Hire - Avant

Am I being over-simplistic in suggesting that:

(a) it's worth any extra cost to ensure that your insurance policy includes a courtesy car

(b) you deal only with your own insurance company, with whom you have the contract, and refuse to deal directly with anyone else's insurers.

Also, Oxymoron, I'm sorry but I'm not sure that you have made the position clearer! I'm not a lawyer, and I presume you are (I'm an accountant and my speciality is company rather than contract law) - but the last two paras of your first post suggest that in practice the insured's financial means aren't relevant.

Warning about Credit Hire - oxymoron

Avant,

(a) Yes absolutely, but be very mindful of the fact that there is a huge difference between a courtesy car and a credit hire car. One is often incorrectly referred to as the other. A courtesy car is usually a small basic car provided gratuitously by your own insurer - whereas a credit hire vehicle is provided by a completely seperate company at very high rates, the costs of which you are liable for but which are then reclaimed on your behalf from the other driver's insurer. Most people think they are getting the former when they are actually signing up for the latter.

(b) Actually, many people who use credit hire companies are referred to them by their own insurer, so not necessarily. The at fault party's insurer will often offer you a vehicle gratuitously with the sole aim of trying to cut out the credit hire companies.

Apologies for the confusion in my earlier post. As I said though its not really a straightforward subject!

To clarify - the full credit hire rate is not recoverable in court unless you could not have afforded to pay for hire from a normal hire company yourself, so your financial means is relevant to how much can be recovered, and anyone caught up in such a dispute will usually have to provide the court with evidence of their financial circumstances. However, provided that you cooperate with the credit hire company, then they will have to pick up any shortfall, not you.

As I said, there is nothing wrong per se with using a credit hire firm, most people dont have any problems. I think the key is to just be aware of exactly what your obligations are under any contract that you sign. Make sure you ask questions, and if you're not sure, take advice.

Warning about Credit Hire - Avant

Thanks for this. Lucy may comment further next week, but meanwhile your last two sentences are essential advice for anyone entering into a contract.

Courts tend to take the side of the individual against a big organisation ('contra proferentem'), but it would be unwise to rely on that - and much better not to get in a situation where you have to go to court.

Warning about Credit Hire - Max Headroom

Avant,

(a) Yes absolutely, but be very mindful of the fact that there is a huge difference between a courtesy car and a credit hire car.

That is the crucial point that most people do not understand about "credit hire". The reason why "credit hire" costs are in the main so much higher than renting a car from the likes of Avis, Hertz, etc. is because the credit hire companies are charging high interest for the "credit" part of the agreement. If you are not able to borrow on your credit card, or cheaper alternatives to rent a car from Avis, Hertz etc., you could borrow the money from short term lenders who charge over 2000% APR but then you would have to prove that it was the cheapest option that you were able to find (for example, you could be such a high credit risk that no lender would give you credit except at those silly rates).

There is a wealth of information on this on the internet (google "credit hire latest law" ), but the link below is worth looking at because they promise "One thing we'll never do is use jargon. We'll always explain everything clearly, in language we can all understand."

www.access-legal.co.uk/legal-news/credit-hire-an-o...m

Credit hire: An overview By Richard Brett
Published: 10:36AM BST 22 Jul 2010 Credit hire is a term many people will be unfamiliar with, despite it being commonplace. Following a road traffic accident, someone needs a replacement vehicle while their own car is unroadworthy and/or being repaired.

Warning about Credit Hire - LucyBC

Some interesting points have been made in this thread but they don't go too far to clarify things - in fact the opposite as they seem to add to the confusion.

Perhaps we can work it up into something that is as definitive as possible within the constraints of what is a complex (and still developing) area of law.

Here is my shot at it. Please feel free to add, criticise and question. Perhaps it can be placed elsewhere on the site when finished as a collaborative article?

On the specific point regarding means of the non-fault driver and their ability to hire their own car at "spot" rates, my own opinion is that while some insurance companies raise means to pay for a spot hire as an issue in challenging credit hire provision I think (broadly) they only do so as a negotiating tactic.

I have never refused a credit hire on a legally insured case on the basis of the hirer's means to pay for spot hire and I have never lost a case.

In some cases (as outlined below) I might refuse to cover hire on the grounds that the claimant had sole and exclusive rights to an alternative equivalent vehicle but that is a different matter.

I know that some people have lost credit hire cases on the basis of means but looking through them they seem to have occurred in (either) highly unusual circumstances; or the verdict has been reversed on appeal.

In my experience the few companies that still challenge credit hire cases on the basis of the means of the hirer seem to be retained solicitors and barristers using it as a "court steps" negotiating tactic to get the bill down and few such cases progress to final hearing.

As mentioned above I take the risk on paying for any insured cases we would lose and I cannot envisage a case where we would refuse to cover a hire on any case beacause of the means of the policyholder.

Credit hire: proposed FAQ:

What is "credit hire" and when is it used?

Credit hire is the supply of a like-for-like replacement hire vehicle on a credit basis to the not-at fault vehicle owner following a non-fault accident. Rather than paying for the hire of the vehicle at the time of hire, the credit hire company will attempt to recover the costs of hire from the at-fault driver's insurer once the claim is settled. Credit hire may be available to any non-fault vehicle owner whatever their own insurance status - comprehensively insured, third party insured or even (in many cases) uninsured as the claim is not against their own insurance but directly against the the insurer of the at-fault third party driver.

Are credit hire agreements legally enforceable?

Most credit hire law comes from two cases: Clark v. Ardington [2002] EWCA Civ 510 and Lagden v. O’Connor [2003] UKHL 64,

In Clark the court held that a credit hire agreement could be valid, enforceable and exempt from the Consumer Credit Act. If a credit hire agreement complies with the Consumer Credit (Exempt Agreements) Order 1989, then it is likely to be valid. This requires the debt to be paid in not more than four instalments, less than twelve months from the date of the agreement. Most challenges to the validity of credit hire agreements are generally unsuccessful provided the agreements comply with the above and a challenge against an agreement per-se is a rarity. Legal challenges now tend to focus on the circumstances in which the claim is made and the amount being claimed.

Where (and why) do problems with credit hire arise?

From a consumer point of view the problem is that the contract is between the credit hire company and the owner of the vehicle involved in the non-fault collision. The owner of the damaged vehicle enters into a contract whereby they hire the vehicle from the credit hire company on the basis of a credit agreement - with the bill payable at a future date and the costs recovered directly by the credit hire company from the at-fault driver's insurer.

Credit hire works on the basis that the payment will be recovered from the at-fault driver's insurance company and no charge will be payable by the (non-fault) recipient of the hire.

But the contract will usually include a clause which means that if the credit hire company cannot recover from the third party they may have recourse against the recipient of the hire - ie the owner of the non-fault vehicle. Thus potentially the recipient of the hire can be landed with a massive bill if:

  • they (or the driver) are held partially or wholly liable for the accident

  • the hire of the vehicle is deemed too long or unnecessary

  • the recipient of the hire is given a substantially better vehicle (charged at greater cost) than the one that was damaged

  • they fail to adequately assist the credit hire company in bringing a case against the third party insurer.

  • the recipient of the hire has, or (arguably) could have obtained and paid for, an equivalent vehicle to their own on a non-credit basis without suffering any financial burden

All the above scenarios will be discussed in detail below.

Please note that if a credit hire claim goes to court the case will be nominally between the non-fault party (as the claimant) and the at-fault party (and the defendant) -- but most cases will be subrogated to the credit hire company and the at-fault party's insurer who will bear the legal costs and meet any payments resulting from the case.

When is a credit hire possible?

Credit hire should only be taken:

  1. if there is no doubt as to liability.

  2. for the duration of the period of loss of use of the damaged vehicle. Please note that if the vehicle is safe and drivable this may only be for the period during which repairs are actually being undertaken (see "duration of hire" below).

  3. the driver has no other equivalent "spare" vehicle available and without depriving another driver (usually spouse or partner) from using it; and

  4. in theory at least, the driver could not have obtained or paid for an alternative vehicle without suffering any financial impediment (ie they had spare money they did not need for anything else).



Why are credit hire rates so high compared to normal rates?

The credit hire industry body argues that while spot hirers take no risk as to settlement by being paid up-front, the credit hirer takes all the risk as to their bill being settled at end of claim - which could be several months hence or in some cases, never. Their charges also need to include an element to cover the costs of the credit and sufficient margin to cover cases where costs are not recovered.

Furthermore they need to have a wide range of instantly-available replacement vehicles to hand and these need to be delivered nationally at all times of day and night.

Credit hire rates are regulated and agreed rates are set by agreement between the credit hire companies and the Association of British Insurers:

http://apps.abi.org.uk/tphire/

They are higher than spot rates but provided that the various other issues dealt with in this FAQ are appropriately dealt with then all participating insurance companies (see above link) should settle claims.

In all circumstances make sure any company you use is "First Tier ABI" - see above link for more information.

How do most people come to use credit hire companies?

Most people are contacted by an "accident manager" having had their details passed on by their own insurer after they informed them of a non-fault accident. "Accident Managers" and "Accident Management Companies" are usually either credit hire companies themselves or they will be referring your case (for a referral fee) to a credit hire company.

Just because your insurer has "referred" you to them does not mean you should enter into the agreement blindly -- nor do you have to accept your insurer's recommendation.

Insurers derive revenue from referral fees paid to them by accident managers who make their money from providing (amongst other things) credit hire vehicles in non-fault accident cases. Generally the accident management companies who get the work from your insurance company will be the highest bidders. They are not necessarily of the highest quality or the most reputable.

If you offered a replacement vehicle following an accident the questions to ask before delivery are:

  • is this a "courtesy car" or a credit hire vehicle?

  • in what circumstances is it possible I could be held liable for the payment of the hire or use of the vehicle?

The answer to the latter should be "only if you deliberately deceive us as to the circumstances of the accident and your personal position."

Otherwise walk away.

Some credit hire companies will cover the entire risk of providing the credit hire (and any loss -- in court if necessary) except in the case of deliberate fraud. Find one of them -- or ask me.

When should I not accept a credit hire vehicle?

  • If there is any doubt as to whether the other party is 100% liable.

  • If the damage was minor and your vehicle is drivable (you will not be entitled to a hire vehicle except for the actual period during which the repair is undertaken).

  • If you have an equivalent vehicle you would not otherwise be using (and would not be depriving another person of using - such as your spouse or partner's car)

  • arguably, if you have the means to hire an equivalent vehicle for the full period necessary without suffering any deprivation (deprivation being in the legal sense - that you had no other possible need/use or future use for the money).

What is the difference between a credit hire vehicle and a courtesy car?

A credit hire vehicle might be hired to you following a non-fault accident by a credit hire company. It is normally provided on a "like for like" basis following loss of use of your own vehicle and payment is subject to a credit agreement which you enter with the credit hire company. If all goes well the payment for the hire should be recovered directly by the credit hire company from the insurer of the at-fault driver(s). In some circumstances you could be liable for any charges made under the agreement that they cannot recover.

A "courtesy car" may be provided while your car is repaired and may be funded by your insurance policy or by agreement with the third party insurer. Courtesy cars are normally "stock" vehicles often provided by the repairing garage. They may be offered following non-fault, split liability and at-fault accidents. In the case of split liability and at-fault cases they may be costed into your claim on your comprehensive policy and hence might be chargeable against your policy excess.

  • Be wary of accepting a credit hire care if liability is in any way in dispute.

  • Unless you have specific cover always question if there will be any cost implication of a "courtesy car" if the accident is likely to be split liability or you might be found to be at fault -- particularly if the cost of repair(s) is close to your policy excess.

  • Always declare any entitlement to a "courtesy car" to the credit hire company - even if you were not at fault in the accident and the car on offer as a courtesy car is not "like for like".

I was in an accident which was not my fault. Am I entitled to a replacement vehicle?

Generally speaking the law provides that if you suffered damage or injury wholly caused by another person you should not be disadvantaged in any way.

However the law says your need for a replacement vehicle is not a given. In most circumstances showing the need will be easy to satisfy but you may not be entitled to a replacement vehicle if it can be shown that yours was not needed for the period of repair.

Circumstances where this might apply might include:

  • if you were to be on holiday abroad and the vehicle concerned was to be parked up for the entire period of the repair.

  • if your car was damaged but you had another of equivalent quality available for your sole use parked in your garage

The need for a hire car is not self-proving (Giles v Thompson [1994] 1 AC 142 per Lord Mustill at 167).

However a need for use is no defence in these circumstances. If you can show a potential requirement for use -- ie that you may have wished to use the vehicle but could not as no car was available (or did not even if one was) then the loss of potential use is likely to be enough.

I was in an accident which was not my fault. Am I entitled to a like-for-like vehicle?

Generally speaking the law provides that if you suffered damage or injury wholly caused by another person you should not be disadvantaged in any way. Thus if you drive an Aston Martin which is damaged in a collision which is not your fault then you should should be provided with a vehicle of equal prestige and not asked to accept the body-shop's Micra while yours is off the road.

The converse equally applies. If your Micra is damaged and a credit hire company offers you an Aston Martin the insurer of the at-fault driver cannot be expected to pay the additional hire costs. Falsely "upgrading" you is a well established scam. Never accept a credit hire vehicle which is better than the vehicle it is replacing unless the hire company guarantees in writing that it will be charged to the third party at the same rate as your own vehicle. Failure to do so can leave you picking up their bill.

On like for like" be aware that the entitlement to claim for an equivalent vehicle is not unlimited.

From the Law Society Gazette:

In Boardman v Byrne [2008] Lawtel (Walsall CC, 18 April 2008), Mr Boardman owned a Porsche GT3. He claimed that it was a very rare car, which personified a certain image of wealth to the outside world (insert your own view as to the image conjured up). An ‘ordinary’ Porsche 911/966 would not, in his opinion, have been an adequate substitute. His Porsche garage did not have a GT3 and referred him to Accident Exchange Ltd who supplied him with a Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG at £675 per day.
The court found that if Mr Boardman had given the matter any thought – which he didn’t in fact – then he would probably have hired the best available Porsche car and his stance about ‘lesser models’ was unreasonable. He recovered the average ‘spot hire’ rate for a Porsche 911/966 of £253 per day.

The claimant is entitled an equivalent vehicle (Lagden v O’Connor [2004] AC 1067 per Lord Hope at paragraph 27).

Whether you can hire another vehicle on credit hire is another matter (see: hire rate and impecuniosity (below).

Credit Hire Cases: Permitted duration of Hire

Even if you were not at fault if your vehicle suffered only minor damage (so as not to render it unusable, dangerous or illegal) then the only period for which you can claim a credit hire is for the period in which it needed to be off the road to be inspected and/or repairs to be actually undertaken. If you are offered a credit hire for a minor bump (such as parking damage) bear this in mind and if the accident management or credit hire company says otherwise you should refuse to deal with them.

If your damage was more substantial then the repairs must be conducted in a timely manner. It may be / is in the interest of the Accident Manager to delay repairs as much as possible so as to extend the period of the credit hire and hence their fees/commission. Furthermore repairers routinely charge insurers storage fees and are often dependent on the accident manager so are happy to participate in delaying the work being undertaken. If you have any suspicions that the repair is being unreasonably delayed place the accident management company on notice of your concerns immediately in writing and if the problem persists send a copy letter outlining your concerns to the third party's insurer. If you acted reasonably in placing your vehicle with what appeared to be a reputable firm then they can seek a contribution from the accident manager and garage and you will almost certainly not be adjudged to be liable for the hire costs resulting from the delay.

In the case of a more substantially damaged vehicle which has been repaired the vehicle should be collected immediately and the credit hire car returned or you will be liable for the daily hire rate. Only a claimant who was unable to pick up his vehicle straight away giving a specific, good reason – such as being away on business in the hire vehicle – is likely to succeed in avoiding personal hire charges.

Credit Hire Cases: Permitted duration of hire for written off vehicles

When a vehicle is written off, other complexities may arise. I work on the basis that the acceptable hire period is from the date of accident to the point at which the settlement payment is received.

But arguably the non-fault driver's means to pay comes into play in this area. For example if the non-fault driver can afford to buy a new vehicle from his own means straight away then a hire period longer than a few weeks might be argued to be unjustified - but assuming fault is admitted then the same arguments apply as to why the insurer has not settled the claim in a reasonable time period.

Thus although this is considered to be an issue elsewhere (and hence mentioned) as with "credit hire and means to pay" (below) we have never lost a case on it.

Hire Rate: Credit Hire and Means to Pay for Spot Hire - so-called "Impecuniosity"

Those of us who are of the view that some insurers have deep pockets and very short arms might have their opinions buttressed by the latest wave of cases troubling the courts concerning "impecuniosity".

The law regarding credit hire - what is recoverable and what is not - is pretty much established along the framework I have outlined above: Broadly speaking if you are a non-fault claimant you are reasonably entitled to a replacement vehicle to the equivalent of that which you lost for the period you reasonably have it.

The only question remaining is as to how the replacement is provided and when, who and how someone pays for it.

As I have detailed above most insurers are very happy to accept substantial kickbacks from firms buying their non-fault personal injury claims and credit hires but some shout very loudly and head in the direction of court when they are the insurer of the at-fault party and a similar claim is made against them.

Central to this issue is who pays - and when - for your replacement car when another driver puts you off the road?

As things stand if you can be shown to be "impecunious" - ie you don't have any money or spend too much of what you earn or have - the chances are you can have a credit hire and the other party's insurer will be forced to pick up the bill without a problem.

Similarly if you drive a prestige, rare or expensive model then current case law falls in your favour.

The people left fall into the middle ground are careful, saving types with a job, a fair credit history and a standard, widely available vehicle.

At risk of sounding like the Daily Mail much of "honest and decent" middle England.

As some lawyers have it while the courts will accept that "impecunious" and/or the wealthy (but not the very wealthy) will reasonably have a credit hire vehicle provided at no risk to them, most of the population who are crashed into by a third party and not at fault will be expected to hire their own replacement vehicle at spot-hire rates, pay for it from their own resources or using their own lines of credit and then claim any costs back - possibly months, maybe years later - from the at-fault party's insurer should they (finally) admit liability.

I do not accept that this is or should be the case and it is not the basis on which our legal insurers work in providing a replacement vehicle in the event of an accident.

We have never yet lost a credit hire case on the basis of means and I do not expect to do so in future. The relevance of means is one of the few areas of credit hire law to have yet been definitively tested by the courts. However my view is that the means of the claimant are irrelevant and they do not figure in our own assessments as to whether we will fund a vehicle.

These are:

  1. if the accident is non-fault you will always receive a vehicle to the equivalent standard to which you lost.

  2. your means are irrelevant to us. We will provide a replacement vehicle on a "no risk to you" basis as long as you are honest about the circumstances surrounding your case (see 3. below).

  3. unless there is deception or attempt to mislead involved as to the circumstances of the accident in any case we deem to be non-fault you will never be billed in any way. We will meet the full cost of provision of the equivalent replacement vehicle to that which has been damaged at no risk or charge - and irrespective of means - throughout the period where we deem you lost use of the vehicle until such a time it is deemed repaired or is written off by the third party insurer.

For more information go to http://www.autosure.eu

Other common questions:

Credit hire case: Why am I named as defendant or claimant?
As with all aspects of a road traffic accident the claim is between the parties to the accident. Thus even if your insurance company (or another party) is fighting the case on your part they may well be doing so on a subrogated basis. This means they incur the costs and risks of the action but they are not named as a party to it on a formal basis.

Credit hire case: what is my risk of having to pay a credit hire bill personally (I was at fault),
Almost none – unless you were uninsured. You may well be named as a defendant in a case which is why this question arose. But your case is likely to be subrogated and any legal costs or costs or penalties imposed by the court met by your insurer. We usually see these cases when there is a minor collision when the owner of the other vehicle has been provided with a credit hire they did not need at great cost. If they are using a bad credit hire company then the financial risk to them is far greater than it is to you. Send all information received to your insurance company. If you feel you need assistance or wish to have free, private consideration of your case contact me through the "ask Lucy" section of this website.

Credit hire case: what is my risk of having to pay the credit hire bill (they were at fault)
Any reputable hirer – and that does not necessarily include the largest or best known – will provide the hire car at their risk. You should only face risk of personally covering it if you have misled them in any way. Regrettably credit hire is sufficiently profitable that many bad practices have developed. If you should not have been provided with a credit hire vehicle in the first place because the degree of damage did not warrant it, if the repair was unreasonably delayed, if a better vehicle was provided than that which was damaged or if you were found to be responsible you may be asked to pay all or part of the costs of hire.

Credit hire case: Questions regarding means, payslips, bank statements and credit card bills

My view is your means are irrelevant in almost all cases. Contact me via Ask Lucy (on this website) if you wish me to consider your case in detail.

Edited by LucyBC on 31/08/2010 at 19:53

Warning about Credit Hire - oxymoron

Lucy,

Excellent and well written article. I would agree with the vast majority of it.

However I'm surprised that you maintain that a claimant's financial means are not relevant. This is simply not the case and you do in fact cite the authority which established the principle that only an 'impecunious' claimant can recover the full credit hire rate (Lagden).

I'm not suggesting for one minute that a non-impecunious claimant would 'lose' a case in the sense that he would recover nothing. But, as a matter of law, a non-impecunious claimant can only recover the cost of hire from a normal hire company - the 'spot rate'.

This is because, as I have said above, the credit hire rate contains additional services and benefits, the costs of which are, at English common law, irrecoverable. This was established by the House of Lords in Dimond v Lovell:

"My Lords, I would accept the judge's finding that Mrs. Dimond acted reasonably in going to 1st Automotive and availing herself of its services.....But that does not necessarily mean that she can recover the full amount charged by 1st Automotive. By virtue of her contract, she obtained not only the use of the car but additional benefits as well. She was relieved of the necessity of laying out the money to pay for the car. She was relieved of the trouble and anxiety of pursuing a claim against Mr. Lovell or the C.I.S. She was relieved of the risk of having to bear the irrecoverable costs of successful litigation and the risk, small though it might be, of having to bear the expense of unsuccessful litigation. Depending upon the view one takes of the terms of agreement, she may have been relieved of the possibility of having to pay for the car at all. My Lords, English law does not regard the need for any of these additional services as compensatable loss...... How does one estimate the value of these additional benefits that Mrs. Dimond obtains? It seems to me that prima facie their value is represented by the difference between what she was willing to pay 1st Automotive and what she would have been willing to pay an ordinary car hire company for the use of a car. .....in the case of a hiring from an accident hire company, the equivalent spot rate will ordinarily be the net loss after allowance has been made for the additional benefits which the accident hire company has provided."

A further question then came before the House of Lords again a few years later in Lagden v O Connor. The question was whether an exception to the Dimond rule should be created in the case of a claimant who has no choice to go to a 'spot hire' company because of a lack of financial means ('impecuniousity). The House held by a 3-2 majority that there should. As to the test to be applied in ascertaining whether a claimant is impecunious:

"There remains the difficult point of what is meant by 'impecunious' in the context of the present type of case. Lack of financial means is, almost always, a question of priorities. In the present context what it signifies is inability to pay car hire charges without making sacrifices the plaintiff could not reasonably be expected to make. I am fully conscious of the open-ended nature of this test. But fears that this will lead to increased litigation in small claims courts seem to me exaggerated. It is in the interests of all concerned to avoid litigation with its attendant costs and delay. Motor insurers and credit hire companies should be able to agree on standard enquiries, or some other means, which in practice can most readily give effect to this test of impecuniosity."

These are not obscure cases. They are 2 of the leading cases on credit hire, and 2 of only 3 to come before the House of Lords (the other being Giles v Thompson). They are also, obviously, binding. For anyone interested enough (or alternatively seeking a cure for insomnia) can access them free here - http://www.bailii.org/

The fact is that the impecuniousity point is the single most commonly litigated credit hire issue in County Court up and down the country on a daily basis. And I can tell you from experience that judges are sick of it! The vast majority of credit hire claimants caught up in legal proceedings will have been asked to provide evidence of their financial circumstances.

Warning about Credit Hire - Pauln6

Very good analyses. It has to be said that the hirer's finances only become relevant if the insurance company suggests that they should have paid for cheaper hire up front AND the credit hire company still wants to claim the full amount. It's often more likely that they will enter into a dispute about the appropriate spot rates by referring to various local companies because arguing in court over a few hundred quid while delving into the customer's finances is not cost effective or good customer service.

Many insurance companies waste time by presenting ABI rates to non-ABI companies, by providing an average of local rates and 'forgetting' to tell the hire companies that they've averaged the figures, and by claiming that excess waiver is not a recoverable loss. All 3 defences have been rejected by the Court of Appeal but insurers obviously still train their staff to raise them as part of the standard process, most likely as a delaying tactic or to mislead those who don't know any better.

It's also worth noting that the credit hire companies (should) perform assessments based on liability, need, finances, etc when taking on claims. If later on it turns out that the hirer should have spot hired or that liability might be split, this can be blamed on the initial process i.e. they should have asked the right questions. Thus equitable estoppel would in most cases prevent the hire company from pursuing hirers for any shortfall. No judge would hesitate to apply this and hire companies know it would be a customer relations disaster. Thus, while technically they have the right to pursue their customers, it is largely for show (i.e. the clauses need to be in the contracts for legal reasons).

Equitable estoppel only protects those with 'clean hands' so those that lied about the accident circumstances or who used the hire car and then refused to assist with the recovery process could indeed be sued successfully. However, when dealing with cases of fraud and breach of contract, this seems only fair. It also seems to me that people are a lot more aware of their legal rights thses days and are prepared to lie about the way in which an accident occurred in the hope of getting away with it. Cameras on mobile phones can be a big help.

Warning about Credit Hire - oxymoron
Pauln6,

I've definitely noticed a trend that credit hire companies are (sensibly) conceding the impecuniosity point far more often, and accepting spot rates rather than delve into their customers finances. They are also getting far more proactive and effective at obtaining their own spot rates evidence. One company in particular have recently set up a separate company solely to analyse and collect spot rate data. If other companies follow suit then arguments over whose rates evidence should be preferred may become the new 'battleground' as opposed to arguments over whether a claimant is impecunious in the Lagden sense.
Warning about Credit Hire - LucyBC

I agree that there are issues about impecuniosity and two insurers in particular -- that are not signatories to the GTA -- are habitually seeking to pressure claimants (and the hire companies) by demanding they provide bank statements, payslips and credit card bills and are threatened with having to answer questions as to their means and spending before the courts.

At present however they appear to be largely using these cases as a negotiating tactic and most are being settled before the hearing, usually coupled with a Part 36 offer.

Some of the major credit hirers would like a case to actually come before the lower courts and then go through to appeal -- indeed permission has been granted in one unreported county court case on the vexed question of “what amounts to impecuniosity”.

Most county court judges will admit that guidance is very much needed in providing a working test as to when a claimant is impecunious as many of the decisions on similar facts have come to different conclusions.

Currently the scant HoL guidance on impecuniosity stems from Lagden v O’Connor [2004] AC 1067 per Lord Nicholls at paragraph 9 and Lord Hope at paragraph 42 where their Lordships thought "whether someone had use of a credit card or debit card may be relevant" - which is hardly definitive - and probably says more about their Lordships financial position that the average debit and credit card user.

We are clearly not on sound legal territory when, if a driver runs into you and is covered by an insurance company which is signatory to the ABI GTA you get your equivalent replacement vehicle provided as a credit hire (pretty much without financial risk if the rules are followed); whereas if you are run into by a driver insured by a non-signatory you face either having to put up (or borrow) the money to hire a vehicle to stay on the road or face having to go through details of your means, your personal spending on your current account and credit cards and face questions in court as to whether you are impecunious (or not).

At present it seems to me that the two insurance companies habitually demanding payslips and statements at disclosure are using the threatened trip to court purely as a negotiating tactic and that the impecuniosity argument is a convenient device for them rather than a serious contention.

Thus I await the appeal court's decision with interest but my own view is that the claimant -- whatever their means -- should not be disadvantaged by having to dip into their savings or borrow to obtain and pay for a replacement vehicle to which the courts and insurers broadly agree they are fully entitled subject to reclaiming the money at some possibly distant future date when the claim is settled.

In any event certainly all claimants should be treated with consistency and that is currently not the case. For example a wealthy commercial solicitor in Baker v First Yorkshire (2007) (unreported) was found to be impecunious because it was unreasonable for him to have been expected to pay spot rate charges where he was the innocent victim of a no-fault accident. In Boardman v Byrne (2008) (unreported), a wealthy businessman was found not to be impecunious. Notwithstanding that he was the innocent victim of a no-fault accident as he could have paid upfront for the charges. It is not possible to see any parity in the reasoning between these two cases.

In terms of other case law there are two other important credit hire matters curerently outstanding.

The first is regarding a defendant insurers offer to provide an equivalent replacement hire vehicles directly to the claimant rather than their using a credit hire: Copley v Lawn and Maden v Haller went in favour of the defendant insurer in the lower court and in favour of the credit hire company on appeal. The insurers failed in their attempt to obtain permission to appeal to the Supreme Court and they will have to go to the House of Lords if they wish to try to overturn it.

Basically the two claimants were offered (and refused) a replacement vehicle by the defendant's insurer - taking the credit hire instead. The court of appeal accepted that they could do so - which also raises potential questions regarding the insurer being able to compel the user to pay spot rates.

The second case is directly on the issue of spot rates, most particularly whether the claimant could have hired the equivalent vehicle concerned at spot rates on the very day that they required it. Again this case has yet to be heard so there is no current ruling on it.

Edited by LucyBC on 01/09/2010 at 11:20

Warning about Credit Hire - Pauln6

If the courts genuinely want this issue to go away and keep litigation costs down then they should lobby for legislation laying down prescribed rates for accident hire companies prepared by an independent body paid for by an annual contribution by the industry and let them compete with each other on customer service. The constant haggling over the same tired arguments is such a waste of time and paper.

Impecuniosity over hire rates isn't the real bugbear for me personally because the cost of irrecoverable legal fees means you should do a deal on rates unless the insurers are relying on a point of law that is clearly and unambiguously wrong such as insisting on ABI rates or average rates or refusing to substantiate a spot rate plucked out of the air.

The problematic issue for me is impecuniosity as it relates to requiring an accident victim to replace or repair their vehicle from their own funds at an earlier date if the insurers spend months investigating liability. If we all knew where we stood, arguments would be minimal. My own view is that we need fairness in the system. If the insurers take 3 months to reply to a letter then the courts should rule that 3 months is a reasonable period for the accident victim as well (subject to extenuating circumstances). Therefore an organised, efficient insurer would save money by dealing with claims promptly while an understaffed, uncooperative insurer would pay for its inefficiency.

I feel a bit sorry for the credit hirers as they get a lot of bad press due to the insurance media machine, which is no more or less justified that the criticims laid against the insurance industry. People forget that their hire fleets have to be insured so the insurers claw back a portion of what they pay out and that they pay large sums to purchase, contract hire, and maintain their fleets. People also take for granted how willing insurers can be to deny legitimate losses if an accident victim is unrepresented.

Warning about Credit Hire - LucyBC

On (a) Any good legal cover should provide replacement car hire.

On (b) In mosty cases we find that it is the non-fault driver's own insurer which sells their claim on to a credit hire company or accident manager.

From a legal insurer's point of view I would always prefer to deal directly with the at-fault party's insurer on on the non-fault client's behalf so the liability issues, repair, replacement vehicle and any uninsured loss recovery (ULR) can be sorted with them directly. I certainly don't want another "accident manager" or "credit hire company" jumping in with a view to providing a vehicle using methods which may mean parts of the claim may become irrecoverable.