To make a meaningful comment I suggest that you specify the Boiler size and manufacturer. Different makes can vary widely in price (and in reliability) and manufacturer backup. You are probably better on asking the question on something like the Screwfix plumbers forum.
Remember modern boilers whilst cost efficient have the life of the average washing machine and the price of some spares (like a car) can make economic repair impossible after as little 3 yrs say. Also plumbers and electronic control do not mix well! Once again, like mechanics and cars!
My advice would be to keep the old cast iron boiler going! My Potterton is built like a brick xxxx house and at 18 yrs old all spares including bolier are still available. Also everybody understands it, including me.
I am not a fan of diverter valves. My sytem uses twin pumps non return valves and allows full control of both heat and hw. Pumps are almost as cheap as valves and inherently more reliable.
Look carefully at the control system specified. Some boilers with integrated controls may look neat and be easy to install but constrain you to manufacturers replacement parts. A programmable thermostat is ideal for house that is only occupied for part of the day and/ or an a sporadic basis.
p
Edited by pmh2 on 15/01/2009 at 13:24
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Also add
Power flushing has a mixed reputation, if you have an old system, with corosion problems, it may accelerate the formation of leaks.
Whilst he system is empty you should consider adding thermostatic valves in bedrooms and hallways to provide some savings.
p
Edited by pmh2 on 15/01/2009 at 13:31
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However...
The power flush will be necessary for the warranty on the new boiler.
IME central heating fitters hate doing them. They take all day, are messy and expensive for the punter. And if a one-man band, they generally hire the equipment to do it from HSS or similar.
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However... The power flush will be necessary for the warranty on the new boiler.
Indeed thats why its specified
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>My advice would be to keep the old cast iron boiler going!
alas not possible - its sprung a major major leak in one of the cast iron heat exchanger seams and has had it big time.
The boiler will be basic, no integral pump, no condensate pump, no integral controls
all it needs to do is turn on gas when told & ignite it, turn on flue fan, keep water at 70c and turn main c/h pump on and off.
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I e-mailed you this morning, in the (very) small hours. If you don't want my boiler, perhaps you'll let me know.
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I e-mailed you this morning in the (very) small hours. If you don't want my boiler perhaps you'll let me know.
FT
you have mail. Thanks for your help.
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Hi pmh2.
"My Potterton is built like a brick and at 18 yrs old all spares including boiler are still available"
I also have a potterton --- fitted in 1963 and still using the original circulator pump! A few years ago I rang Potterton and asked "Is it possible to buy a pilot light assembly". Answer, "Yes, how many do you want?"
I presently have a few very slow leaks from under the inspection covers on the boiler that need fixing due to the black, rubber looking, gaskets having perished. I have obtained some 4 mm thick neoprene ready for doing them myself in the summer.
However, ready made ones would make my life easier. So I am very interested in knowing where you get your spares. I searched the web for stockists without success. Perhaps not surprising as we are a dying breed. At 45 years, they may no longer be available.
As a tip to those having their system drained, for whatever reason, get the plumber to save the drain water, let the muck settle out, and use it again. After the first bleed of the radiators after refilling, no other maintenance was needed by me on the two occasions I did this. The story using fresh water and new inhibitor was much worse. But then, I do live in a single story dwelling.
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leaks from under the inspection covers on the boiler that need fixing due to the black, rubber looking, gaskets having perished. I have obtained some 4 mm thick neoprene ready for doing them myself in the summer. >>>
neoprene and high temperatures? are you talking about the heat exchanger? I would not have thought it was suitable!
www.boilersparesdirect.co.uk look to carry a very comprehensive stock of spares - whether genuine or pattern I do not know.
p
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" leaks from under the inspection covers"
Thanks for the reply.
The two covers, that use six studs, are on the boiler front and are at water temperature which is quite a bit less than boiling. Nowhere near any flames.
In the past I have used the stuff for making hot-tap washers. It is very durable. It was invented during the 39-45 war.
Googled --- >> Neoprene polychloroprene is an extremely versatile synthetic rubber with more than 75 years of proven performance in a broad industry spectrum. ...
www.dupontelastomers.com/products/neoprene/neopren...p - 20k -
Far superior material to the *** of the usual tap washer and probably better than Potterton use (?). But the Pot ones are probably molded to the funny shape of the uneven mating surfaces.
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>>
I am not a fan of diverter valves. My sytem uses twin pumps non return valves and allows full control of both heat and hw. Pumps are almost as cheap as valves and inherently more reliable.
>>
I like the idea of twin pumps for a traditional system but for a multizone system the pumps take up a lot more space.
I have had several motors replaced on one of my valves.
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We've just had central heating installed under the WarmFront scheme (full £2,700 grant); for that we received an Ideal HE mid-range combi boiler, five Stelrad radiators (four fitted with Honeywell thermostatic valves) and Honeywell electronic/wireless thermostatic control; because we required seven radiators we paid an extra £600 for two radiators and thermostatic valves.
You can gain an idea of the prices of various makes of boilers from:
www.bhl.co.uk/category/Condensing_Combi_Boilers (pretty competitive compared to similar websites)
and the other items. That should give an idea of the labour costs involved.
In our case the work was done in just seven hours, mainly by two fitters (the third had to go for the two extra radiators which had not been loaded on the van through a company error).
We reckoned that the package represented good value by the central heating company for WarmFront, especially as before and after fitting service and checkups were very thorough. The electronic control system was fitted the following day by an electrican.
Incidentally the fitters all hailed from Yorkshire and spend several days at a time in a particular area undertaking the WarmFront grants work.
Edited by Stuartli on 15/01/2009 at 14:27
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... WarmFront scheme (full £2,700 grant) ... >>
all in the name of preventing Global warming.
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>> ... WarmFront scheme (full £2 700 grant) ... >> all in the name of preventing Global warming.
Really? To be fair, it is providing central heating and insulation for people on benefits - or benefits scroungers as they are usually known on this forum. Brave man, stuartli...
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>>- or benefits scroungers as they are usually known on this forum. <<
Ooooh! - steady on! I've paid tax and N.I all my working life, and because of ill-health i can no longer, so I spend my days miserably "lurkin an potterin" down my allotment.
I think it was the best insurance scheme i ever paid into! at least now one consolation is i'm only getting what i deserve and what i paid in.
Scrounger indeed! ;-) ;-)
Billy
p.s
any chance of a bob for a cuppa?
Edited by billy25 on 15/01/2009 at 15:30
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>>Brave man, stuartli>>
No cause to be brave (rank me with Gordon Brown on that score!) - it's my wife who was eligible for the grant due to her serious health problems over the past 16 years; she receives Attendance Allowance as her sole benefit.
She learned about WarmFront from a leaflet handed out to all who had a flu jab at her doctor's surgery towards the end of last year. I was pestered endlessly until I finally applied for the grant on her behalf on-line.
Some two or three years ago we had free cavity wall insulation and topped up loft insulation through PowerGen (E-On), who operate the StayWarm scheme on behalf of the Government (fixed sum per month for gas and electricity); this is open to all who are 60 or over.
As we have a Victorian semi-detached property with 11ft high ceilings, it meant that the central heating had a solid foundation for maximum efficiency; the house retains heat so well that the central heating control only operates infrequently, depending on outside temperature.
Edited by Stuartli on 15/01/2009 at 15:44
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Really?
Mappy, I believe so.
... property with 11ft high ceilings ... >>
Install some mini-fans at ceiling height [or point floor standing ones upwards] and run them on the gentlest setting. You will then save even more as the hot air at ceiling level will be circulated towards your feet where you really need the warmth.
Edited by jbif on 15/01/2009 at 16:15
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>>>> Really?
>>Mapmaker, I believe so.
Well... insulation and DG make the world (a house, anyway) a much nicer place to live. And in my view, people - particularly poor pensioners and those on benefits - should be looked after by the state in that sort of fashion. It's giving them comfort, not money.
My parents' 1970 house always used to be a draughty place with its massive windows and warm-air circulation heating.
With double glazing and 12" of insulation in the roof and a new "boiler", the improvement in comfort is worth every penny - even if the costs will never be recouped. (No cavity wall insulation as a result of its shocking reputation.)
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With double glazing and 12" of insulation in the roof and a new "boiler", the improvement in comfort is worth every penny - even if the costs will never be recouped. (No cavity wall insulation as a result of its shocking reputation.) >>
Staywarm is perfectly OK if it is NOT sold by the politicians as a means to save the planet.
IMO, everything you have listed - apart from the new boiler - will pay back [some slower than others]. As reported above, the new boilers tend to be expensive "disposable commodities" with lives similar to cheap washing machines. They will never save enough in energy efficiency to pay back just the capital cost, ignoring any other costs such as fitting and increased maintenance due to their badly/cheaply designed/made unreliable parts.
The house I live in was apparently cavity insulated in 1985 and I have seen no signs of any problems. It makes the the whole house feel evenly warm.
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>>Staywarm is perfectly OK if it is NOT sold by the politicians as a means to save the planet.>>
You appear to be confusing StayWarm with WarmFront.
The reason for all these schemes, including free or giveaway prices for low energy light bulbs and other energy saving measures, is that the Government "encouraged" the energy companies to pay for them by threatening the possibility of imposing windfall taxes on profits.
A clever way of ensuring, as most Labour governments do, that it doesn't have to hand out the money; the same is true to a large extent for similar schemes operated by local councils.
One valuable benefit of the new combi boilers is that, since 2005, their specifications require them to be at least 90-91 per cent efficient.
Regarding the mini-fans suggestion; thanks, but I don't feel that would be necessary...:-)
In fact some of the Victorian properties in my area have 14ft ceilings and I know how much some occupiers are paying monthly for gas and electricity use - frightening.
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In fact some of the Victorian properties in my area have 14ft ceilings and I know how much some occupiers are paying monthly for gas and electricity use
Draughts, insulation. Unfortunately, there's no easy way of getting a grant for insulating solid walled houses, and to actually do so would spoil the appearence of many.
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>>Unfortunately, there's no easy way of getting a grant for insulating solid walled houses
>>
especially a 1930s house like mine that has some 4inch external walls.
I have recently had Critall steel windows replaced with aluminium d/g throughout and although it was not cheap the overall effect is most pleasing.
I have been surprised at the sound insulation and have to admit that I am often unaware it is chucking it down with rain.
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Don't want to disagree with you henry "especially a 1930s house like mine that has some 4inch external walls" but would suspect that you have a solid wall house with 9" walls or a cavity wall house with two 4.5" walls separated by a 2" cavity.
Getting rid of Crittal windows is a good idea and any form of d/g will provide a significant improvement in sound insulation.
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Don't want to disagree with you henry "especially a 1930s house like mine that has some 4inch external walls" but would suspect that you have a solid wall house with 9" walls or a cavity wall house with two 4.5" walls separated by a 2" cavity.
To clarify. Most of the house is 9" solid walls but the upstairs bays are 4" and part of the walls in another bedroom are 4". I was able to dry line the wall in the bedroom to eliminate the cold / condensation.
I assume, to improve the bays I would need new window cills, dry lining and new skirting boards ( after relocating radiators ).
IMO The house is so badly built I almost snarl when neighbours say " The do not make em like the old days"
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>>..a grant for insulating solid walled houses..>>
Erm, actually my Victorian property and most of those in my town have cavity walls...:-)
How else, in fact, could cavity wall insulation be undertaken?
I do recall that PowerGen originally turned down the insulation package application on the grounds that only properties built from the 1930s onwards had cavity walls, until I gently pointed out the error.
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Our Edwardian house does not have cavity walls. It is two bricks thick with bricks turned 90 degrees every so often to act as "wall ties". Wish we could put some insultation in - the gas bills can be pretty high.
When I got our floor standing boiler replaced a number of years ago I went for the simplest possible and fitted it was about £1200. It's a bit of a beast and had to be carried down the cellar!
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A neighbour (whose a builder) and I are looking at doing a geothermal set up.
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Go spend some time on the green building forum.
Lots of users and installers who can offer good advice.
www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/
//pedant mode
whose ?
Edited by adverse camber on 16/01/2009 at 09:00
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>>Geothermal
Wow!
Are you sure? Do you have hot springs nearby? Or are you prepared to sink a borehole a mile deep? Only that way will you capture heat within the earth.
Or are you thinking of a ground-source heat pump, which captures the sun's warming effect on the earth?
Jeff Howell is pretty damning about them in terms of their payback time. www.askjeff.co.uk/news.html
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Mr Howell is damning about a lot of things, some I agree with, but in this case he does seem to have gone off on one about high costs and sales tactics, rather than consider viable alternative technologies
Try the Dick Strawbridge site for info on heat exchange units and whole house ventilation systems.
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Some info on such systems:
tinyurl.com/8nhk5n
www.gshp.org.uk/gshp.htm
www.lowcarbonbuildings.org.uk/micro/ground/
I seem to recall one of the Grand Designs programmes on Channel 4 featuring one of these systems being installed as part of a new home design.
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I told the wife this morning that on the advice of the BR, we would not be replacing the boiler, but would be going green and investigating and investing in geothermal sources, and solar energy, and that this would take some 6 months and 10,000 pounds.
She has requested I obtain the names and addresses of the BR members. I get the feeling she is not coming round to thank you all.
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Perhaps she wants to point out to them that they are talking a load of hot air?
The effects of this can, it seems, be measured:
tinyurl.com/7y8qge
Perhaps we should learn to harness it? The House of Commons would be a good place to start..:-)
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Unfortunately, there's no easy way of getting a grant for insulating solid walled houses, as stated before.
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