And yes, supermarkets do buy from the big oil companies Exxon etc and their wholesalers, but they buy the cheapo reject petrol that doesn't get sold at the branded garages. :-)
Can someone settle this with a definative and objective answer.
Is the petrol delivered to Supermarkets different to other brands?
If so what are the chemical differences and what effect do these differences have on the engine?
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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I look at this this way. I prefer Heinz baked beans, rather than a supermarkets own brand. Same goes with petrol. I always prefer to use a branded name.
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Hi
There is nothing wrong with Supermarket Petrol
If there was they would not sell it,
It does not cause any damage or they would be sued,
James Stephenson
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Dynamic Dave and James_60.
I really appreciate your input and I have my own options too. However all you've both added to this is a couple of opinions.
We need a chemist of someone in the petro-chemical industry to tell us a definative answer, not 32,980 opinions which have no backing in objective fact at all.
I've just e-mail a friend who's a chemist in a refinery. Maybe that'll help.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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I am sure BS is correct. The pumps have little signs on saying that the fuel meets the appropriate Brtish Standard. It may not be the same as the big names, even if it comes from the same refinery but it meets a certain minimum standard so it should be OK, IMHO
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Hi There is nothing wrong with Supermarket Petrol If there was they would not sell it, It does not cause any damage or they would be sued,
James_60,
Obviously you are more informed than the rest of us. Now can you enlighten us further to your above statement.
To use you analagy, There is nothing wrong with supermarket brand baked beans either - they meet food and hygiene standards, yet taste inferior to branded makes.
I have run my cars and motorbikes on branded petrol and also supermarket petrol in the past. I know which brand makes my vehicles go like poo off a stick, and it ain\'t supermarket petrol.
I will only use supermarket petrol when no other forcourts happen to be open at the time I need a fill up.
ps, Shell is the only branded petrol I won\'t use. Doesn\'t seem to agree with my Vauxhall engines.
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DD:
...but with the baked beans we can see and taste the difference, so we know we are making an informed choice. I prefer Heinz Beanz too and reckon the extra money is worth it. Like many others, I have no idea about the fuel.
Andy
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hi
>>>>I really appreciate your input and I have my own options
>>>>However all you\'ve both added to this is a couple of opinions
These are not Oppinions they are fact
if they were to sell cheapo petrol other than what the sign says that would be breaking the trade description act, you must sell what the pump says,
Like i Said It wont damage you\'re car cause if it did They would not sell it they would be sued,
James Stephenson
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These are not Oppinions they are fact if they were to sell cheapo petrol other than what the sign says that would be breaking the trade description act, you must sell what the pump says, Like i Said It wont damage you\'re car cause if it did They would not sell it they would be sued,
Which bit of Objective and Definative don\'t you understand. I happen to agree with your view but it\'s still a view.
While everyone here\'s been wittering on to no purpose I have one definative answer.
The mate in the refinery doesn\'t work in Petrol, she makes lubricants. (OK, we can all stop sniggering now.)
The products they make are sold to every company you can think of (including Esso, BP, Shell) and everyone gets exactly the same product. The only difference is packaging. With lubricants there\'s no such thing as selling a bad batch. You get a time slot to take the stuff away in and it\'s made contiuously. If there was a bad batch there be nowhere to store it anyway.
As for petrol she can\'t help with any technical specs but offered the personal view that Supermarket and Branded petrol tankers use the same gate....
So the game is still afoot.
We still need to know the spec for branded petrol and the spec for supermarket petrol...
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Hi
This web site is for people to share theire views freely without compromise,
you just take the mick
James Stephenson
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Hi This web site is for people to share theire views freely without compromise,
>>you just take the mick
It\'s the school holidays, isn\'t it?
I certainly didn\'t mean to cause offence.
My point was that this post was intended to start an uninformed argument about fuel quality.
It was to try and locate someone who has a definative answer to the fuel quality debate.
I\'m well aware that Supermarket petrol meets British Standards. I happen to believe that fuel is identical. (During the few breakouts during the fuel crisis supermarkets got fuel at the same time as the chains - are we supposed to believe that the refineries made some rubbish fuel on day one just to sell to Supermarkets?)
However these are just my opinions.
I want a definative answer. Are there different grades of fuel that meet the relevant BS standards. If there are who get\'s which grade.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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I meant "wasn't".
If it had been intended to kick off an uniformed debate it would have worked!!!!
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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After googling for a bit the only thing so far I have found is the following:
members.tripod.com/~miniwww/gasoline.htm#4.11
Section 4.12 is about the possible differences in brands.
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After googling for a bit the only thing so far I have found is the following: members.tripod.com/~miniwww/gasoline.htm#4.11 Section 4.12 is about the possible differences in brands.
Good effort. So now we just need to know which additives go in which brands...
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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>>This web site is for people to share theire views freely without compromise,
>>you just take the mick
It is also a place that has no place for bad language, abuse, or content-free posting.
Currently you are offending at least two of their requirements. In addition, having just had to sit and read a whole 24 hours of entires, you are also irritating me.
Cut the language and note politely.
Mark.
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Whilst not a definitive answer, I ran a Pug 309 almost exclusively on supermarket diesel for 90,000 miles with no reason to complain. I also ran a motorcycle for 80,000 on supermarket petrol and the engine was performing absolutely fine at the end.
Both vehicles were eventually changed for reasons unconnected with engine performance, I would have been happy to swap the engines into another vehicle with absolute confidence.
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It's official, they are the same. I just tasted them. Well it worked for the beans.....
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It's official, they are the same. I just tasted them. Well it worked for the beans.....
By that measure my mum's Elderberry Wine would be marketable as premium unleaded...
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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I have removed the personal abuse.
Don`t do it.
Mark.
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OK Toad the only way to resolve is:
a) Sample of Supermarket petrol brand A
b) Sample of Filling Station petrol of Brand A
c) Specification of British Standards to compare
d) Services of a specialist analyist of petrol to compare a
against b and c.
Now go to it.
(Better lazing on the riverbank catching flies?)
DVD.
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OK Toad the only way to resolve is: a) Sample of Supermarket petrol brand A b) Sample of Filling Station petrol of Brand A c) Specification of British Standards to compare d) Services of a specialist analyist of petrol to compare a against b and c. Now go to it.
Do you think HJ would finance it?
I was hoping someone would just know. You know, "I used to work in a refinery and the answer to your question is...".
My gut feeling is that all petrol must be the same - none of the brand names advertise on quality. If their product was better surely they'd say so...
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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There MUST be a difference between various petrols otherwise what is the point of Shell blowing their trumpet over their Optimax!
I know it doesn't answer your original question but in my experience in France, supermarket petrol/diesel is about 20% cheaper but none of the cars that (u)I personally (/u) have had work as well with the stuff.
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In a previous thread someone was of the view that the French petroleum standards were higher than the BSI Kitemark ones.
I have my doubts, though, because IIRC French diesel cars seem to be smokier than the UK ones!
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I have my doubts, though, because IIRC French diesel cars seem to be smokier than the UK ones!
Maybe one of our corrspondents can help.
Do the French/EU have MOT requirements?
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"Do the French/EU have MOT requirements?"
I doubt it, to judge from some of the old heaps on the road over there, or if they do they probably ignore it, the same as every other regulation which we so dutifully enforce in the UK.
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Just to add my two-penn'orth.
Yes, there is a French equivalent of the MOT, known as controle technique. I don't know what it covers though.
My understanding was that all diesel sold in France has to contain a minimum content of bio-diesel (5 or 10% I think - sorry, that's a 100% variance!). That might account for the extra smoke, not to mention the constant smell of chips frying :o)
Never had any problem with it in any of my cars though.
There, I think that's muddied the waters sufficiently!
Terry
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That might account for the extra smoke, not to mention the constant smell of chips frying
Pommes Frites? Shurely not ...
BMW with Garlic, anyone?
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In a previous thread someone was of the view that the French petroleum standards were higher than the BSI Kitemark ones. I have my doubts though because IIRC French diesel cars seem to be smokier than the UK ones!
>>
I tend to agree, I dont know about smokyness as this is probably just poorly maintained French cars, however whenever I get diesel in France, my MPG takes a definate dip from the same sort of driving in the UK. I have noticed this many times.
Regarding the huge argument raging above on supermarket fuel, I think that for petrol there is pink fluffy dice all difference as the specification for petrol is so tight.
My person view though is tha t supermarket diesel is another matter. When I fill up with Shell, I get a distinct 'Millers diesel power plus' whiff at the pump, which I now look out for. I put 60 litres of Sainsburys diesel in the my nearly new A4 Avant, and after driving 50 miles or so the engine seemed relatively rough compared to normal. The diesel I filled up with didn't seem to have that sweet Millers additive smell to it, leading me to conclude that with supermarket diesel they just dont bother with the additive pack that the branded garages do.
Now I'm not saying that supermarket diesel will hurt your car/bike etc, but for slightly better running and MPG I would be sceptical of Supermarket DIESEl.
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There MUST be a difference between various petrols otherwise what is the point of Shell blowing their trumpet over their Optimax!
Doesn't optimax have a higher RON/MON rating?
I'm talking premium unleaded here just your bog standard: BS EN 228.
I've just done web search. I can't find any report that distinguishes between the BS EN 228 Premium Unleaded sold at different outlets.
Shell claims to add "a top performing performance enhancing additive package". But are shy about saying what it does or if all petrol contains this...
Esso also claims "additives to improve performance".
Tesco are selling Attonement for £3.33! Just after I bought it for 7 quid. However they don't mention petrol nor do Safeways.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Toad
As far as I understand the refined petrol is the same. The difference is the additives, lubricants and detergents that are added either at the batching stage or within the tankers. The exact content of additives will be a trade secret, a bit like the colonel's secret recipe or the magic ingredient in coke (cola).
Just like your beans analogy, the beans are the same its the sauce that makes them taste better.
Jonathan
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I imagine that all fuel comes from the same refinery and is probably the same.
As regards a difference at the pumps this must come from the additives.
Have posted this before but will repeat.... my son in law was a tanker driver for Wincanton working out of Tamworth and Nottingham until about a year ago.
I asked him the last time about the additives and his answer was.
Working nights for example which he did for several years they perhaps have three full loads to do during their shift.
The filling of the tanker into its separate pots (as they call them) is carried out by the driver.
They are also given a card by the clerk which they slot into the additive mechanism and injects the particular additive for whoever would be receiving the fuel. Wincanton did all of Texaco so the additive mixture would be dedicated to them only.
Any other retailer would have the additive which they had specified. The driver has no knowledge of the additive but simply inserts a specific card for a specific retailer.
I imagine there is a little secrecy about this from what he says.
He was also told by the older drivers that years ago when the main players used to have their own tankers (no longer) one of them used to have a separate additive tank and the driver had to inject this at the place of delivery into the tank before pumping.
And the biggest fright for every driver was the dreaded one of putting the wrong fuel into the wrong forecourt tank.
And it happens periodically which puts a black mark on the driver and instant action required from the supplier.
He tells some interesting tales on these incidents.
alvin
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Hi All i am a retired tanker driver 20 years with Texaco 3 years with shell 5 years with Tesco and 3 years with Safeways and worked out of the large oil terminal at Buncefield Hemel Hempstead in Hertfordshire the petrol arrives at this terminal from 3 pipe lines BP corringdon, Fina/Total Immingham, and Shell Stanlow, and all grades come down the same pipe and pumped into the companies storage tanks in there own depots each driver is given a loading card like a credit card and if a Tesco driver loads in BP the computer knows who he is and injects the correct
addertive, they dont hold special tanks for third party buyers
i have used Tescos fuel also Asda and Safeways and Sainsburys in
my Volvo Which is now 17 years old and still going strong with 152.000 miles on the clock if it was rubbish i would not use.
Thank You
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Motel.
Thanks for that... If I had known we had a real tanker driver on board instead of myself having to remember what son in law John tells me I could have saved my poor old brain.
Just have to add this.... On a site some thirty years ago I had a retired ex Shell Manager acting as site clerk..
He was the Manager at Shell Uttoxeter and he used to tell me of the logistics of moving fuel around the country.
He told how fuel at Shell Uttoxeter was received by underground pipeline from Manchester. All of 50 miles..
They would liase by phone and say.... at 14.00hrs open valve No one to receive 4 star.
At 15.00hrs close valve one:: open valve two to receive 2 star. etc...
I found this fascinating.
alvin
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My parent's next door neighbour was a shell driver. He worked out of the Uttoxeter depot until he retired about 10 years or so ago. I never knew about that huge pipeline even though I must have walked past the place a million times. I was wondered where those large pipes actually went.... Small world eh?
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Yes it sure is a small world. Your neighbouring shell driver would have probab;y retired when they closed the place down at about that time. I think they had contracted out the transport by then. Houses are about to be built on the site.
Funnily enough one of their drivers I was on nodding terms with, and he would be seen for years afterwards sitting on the corner seat to the cattle market entrance on Carter St and I used to think he seemed a bit lost when he finished.
And yes if I hadn't been told of the pipeline it wouldn't have occurred to me either but when you think logically the tankers were only coming out laden and flying back to to the Uttoxeter depot empty. Fuel had to be bought in and there was no rail link.
Where the actual route was I don't know and neither when it was installed but it seemed a much better system and I imagine all depots have a similar method of bringing in the fuel.
alvin
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alvin the pipeline from stanlow goes all the way to heathrow and
on to gatwick and pumps 365 days of the year with jet fuel. there are pipes all over the place also when i was made redundant from TEXACO i joined wincanton and worked for the supermarkets until i retired 18 months ago but dont miss the rat race them driver are in now the good old days have gone motel
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Motel, yes it must be a stressful job particularly with the traffic density we now have. John did it for some years mainly on nights. He tells of yobs shooting air rifles at his tanker in a Birmingham filling station, of cars trying to drive over his discharge pipes and similar. He also reiterates that the older hands such as yourself had seen the best times when the big companies had their own fleets.
The network of fuel pipes across the country must have been a massive undertaking similar to the natural gas one of thirty years ago but I don't recall any of it being carried out.
There may well have been a Government involvement in this scheme similar to the A46 road which was built out into Lincolnshire from the Midlands as a military road for the expanding RAF between the wars.
alvin
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IIRC if the subsequent fuels in a pipeline are too different they send trough a sort of shuttlecock device between despatches to clean the inside.
All the major civil and military airports are supplied by pipeline. At Heathrow for example with planes landing every 60 seconds at peak flow you'd need a tanker a minute coming through the gates otherwise to keep the system going.
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My understanding is it is EXACTLY the same petrol and is even delivered in BP \ Shell \ Texaco tankers depending on which supermarket you buy from.
As for supermarkets, the stuff is so cheap because they sell it as a loss lead to get the shoppers in.
I also understand BP \ Shell \ Texaco also delivery petrol to each others stations in the UK
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As for supermarkets, the stuff is so cheap...
The supermarket and branded petrol prices are the same where I live due to them all being so close to one another. Esso for example has the promise that they will match any price within 3 or 5 miles IIRC.
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Watcher, The tankers you see with Shell, Texaco on them are not company vehicles but contractors.
As I put earlier all Texaco tankers are Wincanton vehicles even though they are painted up in Texaco livery.
I think you will find this true of all the big fuel companies who no longer have their own fleets.
The difference between the fuels is the additive which is different and specified by the buyer.
Wincanton are also many of the vehicles delivering (usually in the night) to supermarkets often in the supermarket livery with your baked beans etc.
alvin
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As for supermarkets, the stuff is so cheap because they sell it as a loss lead to get the shoppers in.
I was under the impression that loss-leaders were now against the law as it is too anti-competitive. They probably sell it at cost, which is why they are 1p a litre cheaper than the big olayers.
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"I was under the impression that loss-leaders were now against the law as it is too anti-competitive."
It depends upon if you are classed as being in a dominant market position.
Dominant = > 40% market share
Market = area/product range decided by the EU competition commission upon receipt of a complaint.
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I`m so old i can remember when cut price petrol firms came on the scene.It was generally believed then that Jet ruined carbs and on more than one occasion my carb had to be stripped to have dark orange coloured sludge taken out after I`d used it. It seemed to be simply accepted fact by mechanics in those days.
I remember talking to a tanker driver when I worked on a filling station and he told me that petrol is (was)allowed to settle in the huge tanks and different qualities of fuel are drawn off by opening valves either high up the tank or low down in the so called heavy stuff which it was said, was where the minor petrol companies drew their fuel. This explained why cheap petrol was cheap -it was the heavy less volatile stuff and also likely to contain sediments. Hence sludge in my carbs.
It is probably all different now.I hope so and any way jet is a reputable major player now.
Anyway I always use Supermarket Derv.
And I`m dead certain French and Spanish derv is dirtier than UK Derv --I can prove it with my toe on the accellerator no matter what the scientists may say.
BTW Tesco regular Baked Beans are best --not the Value ones----they are vile.
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>>the computer knows who he is and injects the correct additive
Motel, or others,
What additives ?
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DD - yes the prices are usually the same. I wasn't talking about price difference though - quality difference.
Watcher - that's what I thought - an ESSO tanker often delivers to our Sainsburys.
MOTEL, ALVIN & TeaBelly - That might be the nearest we get to the definitive answer. All petrol gets additives, additives are different but we don't know what they are. Which kind of explains why nobody advertises petrol on quality.
Tony Bee: "allowed to settle in the huge tanks and different qualities of fuel are drawn off by opening valves either high up the tank or low down in the so called heavy stuff which it was said, was where the minor petrol companies drew their fuel. "
Think you might have got the wrong end of the stick here! I had the refining process explained to me last night by my refinery contact. At the top of the tank will be oxides, at the bottom will be thick oily crud (Bitumen?). Petrol *is* in the middle but I doubt Tescos fill you up with tar from the bottom!
Marks hit the nail on the head. What are the additives? The concept of patrols being different is fairly meaningless without some idea of the pro's and cons of different petrol.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Section 9.1 of the link teabelly gave earlier in this discussion presents a fairly detailed generalist account of the additives generally used in petrol. This is probably as detailed a description as can be found as,clearly, no one is going to tell you the exact composition of the additive mix they use in their petrol, just like Heinz won't disclose their bean recipe to Sainsbury.
Dare I suggest that even armed with a detailed additive composition very few people would be able to make an informed judgement as to the quality of a petrol brand? A very esoteric subject.
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Section 9.1 of the link teabelly gave earlier in this discussion presents a fairly detailed generalist account of the additives generally used in petrol.
Yes, but it doesn't say if supermarket petrol has these additives.
This is probably as detailed a description as can be found as,clearly, no one is going to tell you the exact composition of the additive mix they use in their petrol
Yeah but a *lot* of people stongly feel supermarket petrol is inferior to other brands. If no description of additives is available then this view is based on... nothing.
More and more I'm goming to the conclusion that there is simply no difference between the fuel ESSO give to Tesco's and the fuel they put in their own pumps. If there was they'd market it.
In this whole thread nobody has been able to offer a single quantifiable difference between Tesco's petrol and Shell's.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Not being flippant here. Why not phone Tesco and ask them? They might just tell you! A colleague of mine once phoned the customer service people at MacDonald's to ask for the ingredient list of their ice cream. He got it with no trouble. I don't suppose Tesco would, or even could for that matter, give you a detailed description of what goes into their fuel but you may get something. I called the help line of Sainsbury once about one of their food products. The guy on the phone gave me a load of wrong info (I am a food scientist with a PhD in Chemistry so he picked wrong person to guess the answers with!) but eventually I got the info i was after. So, perserverance may be needed.
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Not being flippant here. Why not phone Tesco and ask them?
Safeway have just Rx'd the saddest and most detailed technical customer enquiry in the history of the business.
Thanks for the idea Robin.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Here's what Safeway have to say:
Hello Toad,
Thank you for your email.
Further to your query, all petrol and diesel must meet the relevant British
and
European Standards.
Detergent additives are added at the terminals/refineries by our suppliers
and
these help to keep the valves cleaner which contributes to better engine
performance. We do not add any more additives, it is only those put in by
our
suppliers.
Thank you for contacting us.
Kind regards Claire
PS. I find amphibians intensely attractive. Would it be possible for us to meet up and maybe get to know each other better.
Ok, I admit it. I added the PS myself...
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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PS. I find amphibians intensely attractive. Would it be possible for us to meet up and maybe get to know each other better. Ok, I admit it. I added the PS myself...
Thank goodness you told us - we would've never guessed! :-)
Chad.R
Not all BMW owners are bad drivers - just the majority.
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Just to start this one up again, it appears we don't have a real answer as to how the devil we are readily supposed to decide what are good and what are not so good fuels, if indeed there is any difference.
Reading the article in the Daily T motoring section last Saturday the article on Ford Dunton Technical centre you find the following quote.
"So have they any tips for making our engines last? Missing services is 'highly inadvisable' in these days of once-a-year, or 12,000-mile service intervals, although it seems almost counter-intuitive that the quality of the oil you use is less important than that of the fuel, especially when it comes to diesel engines. 'We are very conservative in our calibrations to protect the engine, but if you continually fill with the worst-case fuel in Britain, you will find problems,' said one engineer.
Continuous idling and revving when cold are engine killers, as are short runs where the engine never gets warmed up."
So if the set of petrolheads (and dieselheads) on this site can't come up with a decent way of knowing what fuel is good and whats not, and the manufacturers know that worst case fuel is bad then isn't it about time we were told?
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Interesting that continuous idling or revving when an engine is cold is an engine killer. Of course until the engine warms up, the oil wont do its job properly, but surely if the engine idles at low revs its going to be a better compromise at warming the oil and keeping the revs minimum, than driving at higher revs with cold air blowing through the front rad of the car.. Or does driving the car when its cold offer other benefits?
S.
_____________________________________
SVPworld (incorporating PSRworld)
www.svpworld.com
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In the context of the article continuous idling was the sort where the engine is started at the beginning of the working day and not shut off until end of shift. During any prolonged halt its just left idling.
Ford call this "RAC patrolman syndrome" if I recall correctly
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get 1 gallon of supermarket fuel
get 1 gallon of branded fuel
set fire to both
the one that makes the most damage ,id put that in my tank
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Does this get the record for the oldest resurrected thread?
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I was just thinking that.
Strange that after all these years this festering issue refuses to be solved.
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was just thinking that. Strange that after all these years ..
i.m.o stranger still that someone registers as a new backroomer to resurrect such an old thread.
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i.m.o stranger still that someone registers as a new backroomer to resurrect such an old thread.
My theory is that a posting is found via a search engine, then register with the BR to post a reply to said post.
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My theory is that a posting is found via a search engine, then register with the BR to post a reply to said post.
i can understand that and should certianly be welcomed where it helps resolve some unanaswered puzzle.
in this particular case, it seems to me that the reply added today by the new backroomer did not help much.
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Stranger still that the new poster actually registered over a year ago and this is his/her first post to drag up a thread that is almost 5 years old!
Noticed a lot of new names recently....many of whom have been registered a while but only recently started posting.
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A cynic would observe that most of them have an excellent command of written English .....
Which is unusual. Unless they are the same person.
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Strange that after all these years this festering issue refuses to be solved.
Especially when the solution is quite simple:
1) It is a fact that all fuel sold in this country must meet BS whatever it is. It may or may not be a fact that some of the additive packages used by Shell, BP and so on have the effect of improving the quality of the fuel to a point that is higher than the minimum required by the BS. NB: I am not a petrochemist and do not offer this view as anything other than a possibility that I have perceived.
2) Let those who consider (whether on the basis of the above or perceived differences in how well their vehicles run) that supermarket fuel is inferior in quality to branded fuel and to be used only when there is absolutely no alternative, buy branded fuel.
3) Let those who consider that branded fuel (especially premium grades such as V-Power, Ultimate, Excellium and the like) is a waste of money and that supermarket fuel is perfectly all right, buy supermarket fuel.
4) Let each respect the decision of the other.
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It is not so much the petrol but the petrol pumps that irritate me. I have found visiting a station with new pumps is frustrating as the pumps keep clicking off and it can take 15 - 20 mins to fill up! If i visit any station with older pumps I have no problems. I did read somewhere that fuel stations are trying to speed up the flow through the nozzle in order to get more people through the forecours at busy times. I suppose it works until I need to fill up and then it takes 10 times as long as it used to.
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This usually happens when filling with diesel as it tends to throth up and trigger the shut off, it is very annoying as I have come away with less than a full tank on several occasions.I might add its usually supermarket fuels that tend to throth.
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rustbucket (the original)
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Well, after 20 years of driving diesels (Citrooens), and filling up mainly with supermarket diesel, but also virtually every other brand (sometimes to see if they do give better mpg over a good few tankfulls) I have never noticed any difference whatsoever in mpg. Also never had a problem with throthing, though the occasional problem with frothing (sarky git, me!) which also seems (on it's rare occasions) to occur with any brand - more to do with the filler tube or the pump rather than fuel - a Fiat was the worst, followed closely by an LDV van which seemed to need about 20 clicks and 30 minutes of dribble to fill up.
As for French diesel - I've always got excellent mpg there with supermarket diesel - I put it down to less congested roads - but maybe because I drive Cits?.
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Phil
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Ah, Toad, where are you now? Lured into annihilation by that Brazilian bloke. But such is the internet.
Didn't he receive several photographs from Plod following a rather rapid trip into the darkest corners of no man's land, otherwise known as North Wales?
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>>.. Lured into annihilation by that Brazilian bloke. But such is the internet. ..
seems the former brazilain has gone off on a long holiday from the backroom to mull things over since his challenge to honestjohn in the "newlook to the website" thread.
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Has he indeed?! I missed that, seems rather petty; I thought the Brazilian was made of sterner stuff, I enjoyed his Basil approach to all and sundry.
So what is this "new look" that you are referring to then?
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So what is this "new look" that you are referring to then?
see here New look to website. Volume 1 - L'escargot
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=51328
and here New look to website. Volume 2
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=51617
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No Dalglish you're missing the point ;-)
Whatisname in the hat is on the top left, some things about cars I have no interest in on the right, an eclectic range of contributors and moderating by Genghis Khan*. What's changed?
*Sorry Dave, a cheap shot ;-) And where's that nice Polo Girl gone?
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The supermarkets buy their fuel on the open market from whoever is cheapest. They use their finacial muscle on oil companies in the same way that they have pushed the price of milk to 16 pence per litre to the producers. Tesco and co have big brands to protect, if by feeding our cars on cheap supermarket fuel our cars expired, the brand would suffer badly and people would not shop there.
I have tried posh petrol and worked out the miles per gallon and the cost per mile. The premium is not worth paying. It is possible that if you are driving on the ragged edge all the time that you would be able to tell the difference between Tesco's 95 RON and some Optimax, but I normal day to day driving, I can't.
Oh but, they put speciall aditives in that make the car run better and keep the injectors clean. And when I have my car serviced, those nice people at Honda pour a glug of injector cleaner in the tank so why pay for it twice? I have found that proper maintainance gives miles more performance than posh fuel.
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I see the local Tesco now has 99 octane, so I mean to try it in Toad the Supra. If there is an explosion I'll own up!
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Yes we keep hearing that supermarket petrol is more or less the same or pretty much as good as, but it's a gamble. Sometimes, and in some areas it is junk. Literally. Look at the millions of pounds worth of damage some Tesco/Morrisons petrol which was supplied by a small player, the reason was because it was made containing reclaimed/scrap toluene solvent which had been used to wash PCBs in electronics factories! No oil company would use such liquid waste to make their petrol.
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Carrying on from the 'Supermarket Petrol' thread,
{and now moved so that it does actually carry on from there... PG}
I have now seen Shell tankers delivering to my local Morrisons supermarket on a couple of recent occasions. Now I know that 'branded' petrol is alleged to have additives put in at the time of delivery - I wonder if the Shell petrol sold at Morrisons is Shell WITH additives or Shell WITHOUT?
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Petrol is made to a Universal Standard in the UK & Europe - on loading on to the road tanker additives are put in - a la Fiasco @ Tesco, Morrisons etc a few months back.
There are very few refineries about tehse days - Ineos (Sold recently by BP) in Grangemouth Scotland supplies Scotland and Nth England - sold as BP. Shell, Esso, Tesco, Morrisions, + umpteen canteen others - the lorries delivering are mostly sub contractoprs and the livery on the lorry is only an advert..
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I would have thought that Shell petrol is always petrol with Shell's additives, which may be of a higher spec than the Universal Standard. I think the OP needs to ask at Morrison's - "Is that petrol Shell or not?" Or get written confirmation if it's important.
In Watford there is a small Sainsbury's at a fuel outlet that sells (or appears to sell) Shell fuel; certainly you can use your Shell loyalty card there but not Nectar. I assumes this means it is genuine Shell fuel. I seem to remember Morrison's have in the past sold Texaco fuel, where again you could use your Texaco loyalty card and not a Morrison's one; later (at the branch I'm thinking of - Stamford) Morrison's introduced their own special fuel loyalty card, though the fuel still appeared to be Texaco. Not sure what it is these days - don't go there much.
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I saw a BP tanker delivering to Sainsburys this week.
However in the same way that Heinz migh produce Tesco own brand beans (I dont think they do actually) and deliver to Tesco's distribution centres in a Heinz wagon then Shell or BP might reasonably use there own branded tankers to deliver to the supermarket forecourts.
I used to work for a company that produced private label and branded products and they were all delivered by our transport.
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It depends on the area.
The Morrisons in Bulwell Nottingham used to say Shell in small logo under Morrissons.
The Morrisons in Colwick didn't.
I have recently seen a tanker leave Texaco in Colwick and deliver to Morrisons.
Texaco in Bulwell sells Texaco antifreeze and oil.
Sainsburys and ASDA tankers can been seen parked at Texaco and Total (can't remember which where)
What's more, the oil companies share each other's terminals anyway.
The tanker fleets and drivers and now mostly outsourced to P&O, Hoyers etc...
The reason for this is due to oil companies tending to palm risky things to third parties to reduce litigation and bad publicity if there's a disaster.
I think the additive thing is getting less and less of an issue these days.
I imagine most supermarkets put is out to tender every so often, they do with everything else they sell.
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You saw a tanker that had "Shell" written on it. Anything could have been inside it.
The drivers orders could have been "first three tanks to the Shell garage up the road and the last tank of slops for Morrisons"
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Hello Everyone.
Thought i would add my gallons worth.
My Grandson works for a morrisons petrol filling station.
He told me that they are filled with Texaco and esso petrol and diesel.
--
(iam not a mechanic)
Martin Winters
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As an old mate of mine used to say... 'it says 'oxo' on buses but they don't sell it'.
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As an old mate of mine used to say... 'it says 'oxo' on buses but they don't sell it'.
That's because its an advertisement.
If I see a Shell tanker I expect it to be carrying Shell petrol. I don't think its just an advertisement and I think that Shell tankers are filled with Shell petrol and make their deliveries to Shell stations. If Joe Public pulls into, say, a BP station and sees a Texaco tanker doing the delivery then that is going to rather undermine all of BP's advertising and branding don't you think?
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Read Falkirk Bairn's post above.
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If I see a Shell tanker I expect it to be carrying Shell petrol. >>
Many companies make both their own brand and private label products therefore when the latter are delivered the delivery is likely to be in an own brand wagon, in most instances this is to a distributione centre however with fuels it is directly to the retail outlet.
If Joe Public pulls into say >> a BP station and sees a Texaco tanker doing the delivery then that is going to rather undermine all of BP's advertising and branding don't you think?
Yes, however if Joe Public pulls into say a Tesco station and sees a Texaco tanker doing the delivery then he should assume that Texaco provide the Tesco brand fuel as a private label product however he should not assume that it is the same spec as Texaco own brand.
This is the case with any thing from baked beans to cornflakes to soup to engine oil (i.e. Comma make Halfords brand) etc etc.
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"You saw a tanker that had "Shell" written on it. Anything could have been inside it. The drivers orders could have been "first three tanks to the Shell garage up the road and the last tank of slops for Morrisons""
Not true, the tanker has 8 compartments, around 30,000 litres, and it will all go to one garage, it used to be up to two, but such small garages no longer exist in any significant numbers and are served by small players such as Rix and Power.
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All the tankers are outsourced now. Shell owns no tankers whatsoever nor does BP. Its a result of union activity in the 70's. When the TGWU wanted a pay rise they crippled the county by pulling the final link in the petrol distribution chain.
I don't know but would suspect that under the contract Shell gets and pays for X number of livery jobs. Nothing to do with whats in the tanker itself.
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