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Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Bilboman
Much as I love technology and gadgets, I have been to Hell and back with a hired Passat (not my choice) this past week. The electronic handbrake and "Auto Hold" has aged me ten years and I am a gibbering wreck. I never, never want to own or drive a car with an electronic parking brake ever again.
Despite steady, gentle driving for the first few miles, I managed to stall the engine three times, once while exiting a multi-storey. Sudden loss of power assistance led to a larger than intended turning circle and a light scrape against the side wall. Re-starting with that daft pseudo key was excruciating - it would have been so easy to give it a twist rather than WINDOWS - style press-to-start-press-to-stop action.
I did read the instruction manual for a good ten minutes (pull tab to release manual from hidden compartment inside glovebox - details of hidden location of instruction manual are... in the instruction manual; gaahhh!!!) in the Europcar office before setting off, but I felt like a toddler doing an intensive course in Linux. The Auto Hold (stops car rolling back or forward when stopped) is actually brilliant but has to be switched on every time on startup, and the yellow warning light is down by the gear lever (doh!) So when I wanted it to be on it wasn't and vice versa. Parking on the hill where I live in reverse, with or without Auto Hell) proved next to impossible so I parked a mile away from home on a flat stretch.
All of this has actually killed my 25 year long love of driving, at least till I get my own car back.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - pd
I'm not really a fan of electric handbrakes but I can't say I've ever stalled an engine with one. It sounds like there was something wrong with it and it wasn't releasing or there was something wrong with the car.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - legacylad
My friend has an '07 Passat, and her job necessitates her driving 45k per year.She swears that the electronic handbrake is the best thing since sliced bread, and tells me she would hate to return to a 'normal' type handbrake. Definitely sounds like a problem with your vehicle.
I recently rented a Prius whilst in the States, and without knowing whether it is a similar system to that in the Passat, found it intuitive to use. And I am someone who has been called a 'Luddite' on this site (quite pleased actually, tha knows).
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Bilboman
I'm sure if the Passat were my own regular car I would eventually get used to it. I find the idea that "the machines are taking over" a little worrying. The handbook, when I eventually found it, refers to a number of options including automatic distance maintenance (?), cruise control, blah blah, without actually telling me whether this car is fitted with it. Hence the problem for unfamiliar drivers - those who have to hire or borrow a *robot car* or alternate between two cars, one with and one without. I have heard so many accounts of drivers forgetting to operate handbrake, lights, even wipers... and almost coming a cropper.
The Passat has its own logic, but the Scenic and C-Max have their own, slightly different logic, too. One car automatically sets the handbrake on switching off ignition but another one doesn't. The *amazing* electronic circuits will work or not depending whether you press the clutch and/or footbrake fully down and whether the seatbelt is fastened (I prefer to make low speed manoeuvres in reverse without my seatbelt on, but the Passat dictates otherwise.)
That is lack of intelligent, consistent thinking. Lack of conformity is a problem for computer users but for a driver it can be far more serious.
It takes well over an hour to read instruction manual for Passat 3.0.12.3.2008.x...
Stop the world, I want to get off.....
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - PW
Recently had a Grand Picasso HDi EGS as a holiday hire car (been meaning to do review for last week or so) and had similar system.

Was brilliant, didn't need manual to work it (lucky as none was provided), just press button on centre of dash to switch on, automatically switched off when hit accelerator in drive modes.

Handbrake turned itself on as soon as ignition was turned off, so only needed it for hillstarts, but did use whenever was at a standstill (as I do with normal handbrake).

Absolutely loved it is as a system, and worked brilliantly with the EGS system (tried manual mode twice but found much preferred auto system.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - mr.freezer
I have a Passat with one of these and spend 8 odd hours a day in the car.

I find it really convenient as it frees up space but can comiserate with the start up proceedure which seems to be merely a gimmick.

The trick with the electric hand brake is to never use it unless parking. Switch the thing off before you put it in gear. My auto hold thing seems to only work when it feels like it.

I had the car serviced in a Skoda dealer today and yearned for the days of better build quality and a rattle free time behind the wheel. But hey ho, only a year more to go.

I am supporting the Czech Republic this summer to apologise for "cheating" on them.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - doctorchris
Sorry but I do not understand what the problem is with a simple lever in the car that operates the rear brakes through 2 cables.
It gives a high level of control and if the hydraulic system fails it is there as a back up.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - yorkiebar
And if this simple mechanical system should fail, or play up, the car can be driven to a garage . Try that when the electronic one plays up!

A gimmick for the sake of it !
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - movilogo
Sorry but I do not understand what the problem


The problem is that with a simple handbrake system, the dealer can't charge you £££ for fixing an electronic circuit - which you local garage can't do because they won't have the software.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Pat L
I've got used to the electronic handbrake on my Passat, but I think I'd prefer a 'normal' one. Luckily it's too hill round here so I don't need to do a lot of hill starts - I still find these a bit stressful with the electronic hanbrake.

It seems like quite a few other cars have this type of brake now. I'm not convinced they're the way forward, though the extra storage space between the seats is useful.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - tipsy
It's stange that I consider that the AUTO - HOLD switch and function are probably the best feaure of the Passat! Perhaps that's because my Passat 2.0 TDI has got a DSG gearbox.

Yes, I agree that sometimes the software has a mind of its own; but in a M25 traffic jam sceanrio it works like a dream.

Will I buy another Passat? Probably not due to the poor dealers in the Thames Valley area!
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - henry k
I was planning to hire a Passat in October and will be doing quite a lot of motoring.
A Passat is the size (auto) car available from Avis ( they are the flavour chosen this year) so unless I switch hirer, that has a drop off in other cities, what aggro am I in for?I do not want to waste holiday time messing about learning about clever gizmos.
Any thoughts?
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - pd
The electronic brake really isn't very complicated. You pull the button up and it engages just as any handbrake.

To pull away, you just pull away. Once the clutch bites the brake should disengage - you don't need to do anything. However, it will only do this if you have your seat belt on. If you haven't, the brake will remain on.

If you want to release it manually without your seatbelt on, put your foot on the main brake and press the button down.

At least this is how the VAG version works.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - kiss (keep it simple)
I hired a Passat DSG auto with the electronic brake. I must say it was easy enough to use and I was very impressed with the auto box. I had never driven one before, but all you had to do was press a button to put the brake on.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Bilboman
I wish Henry K the best of luck with the hired Passat. It is a terrific car; I've driven it for four days now and except for that wretched brake, it is wonderful: comfortable, quiet, smooth, light steering and controls, loads of gadgets,...

Things to remember with the automatic brake (things I wish the enormous instruction manual had told me!)
1. Keep your seatbelt fastened and set the "Auto Hold" button at the start of every journey, then things are pretty intuitive.
2. When you come to a stop in traffic, whether you're on the flat or a slope, go into NEUTRAL as soon as you can then LET CLUTCH AND FOOTBRAKE IN AGAIN and the parking brake comes on automatically and holds the car till you move off, when it releases at precisely the biting point with no rolling forwards or backwards. There is no warning light on the brake button but it'll hold you still as long as AutoHold is on. In this respect it's intuitive and brilliant.
3. If you ever want to park on a hill, switch the Auto Hold OFF and use the brake button manually. Or else it's jerk - stop - groan - jerk - move - jerk and you'll tear your hair out.
4. The parking brake does NOT automatically set when you park the car (or stall the engine!) so remember to hit that rectangular button (with clutch and footbrake pressed!) And the key/switch/Yorkie Bar *thing* has to be pressed IN to pull it OUT, which you have to do before pushing it IN again to start the car.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Avant
The fact that it's taken Bilboman this long, despite writing in concise, clear English, makes the point admirably that this stupid gimmick is the answer to a problem nobody had.

Instructions for manual handbrake:

1 Pull it up to apply, pressing the button to save wear on the ratchet.

2 To release, press in the button, lift slightly and release (gradually for a hill start).
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - james.fry

If you look in the handbook for almost any car with options then you will see large sections for options you car doesn't have. Vauxhall, Ford, Citroen all do it to some degree, while premium marques such as Audi, BMW and Mercedes can take it to a whole new level due to the high number of options. Your rental company should have made it clear to you what options were in the car and how they worked, and you should familiarise yourself with the car before driving it - even if that means taking 30 minutes to do so before each drive. Any driver not competent enough to drive a vehicle should not be endangering other road users.

Incidentally, it is law in the UK you must wear a seat belt in order to operate a vehicle (this has been the case since 1983). This applies whenever you are on public roads or carparks (including Tesco's car park). If you have an accident without wearing a seatbelt, even when reversing into a space in the car park, your insurance may not cover you, especially if you have bodily injuries.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - TomCarlisle
I had been trying to get VW to bring the Passat TDI Wagon into the States, but to no avail. So when Europcar upgraded us to the vehicle in Barcelona 3 weeks ago I was thrilled that I got the chance to drive the car I thought I wanted. The thrill quickly ended. As we sat in the car for the first time my wife said (in a voice eerily reminiscent of a public address system), "Please familiarize yourself with the vehicle before starting the car." I thrust the fob into the receptacle on the dash and pushed it. Nothing happened. I pushed again. Nothing happened. I asked her to open the glove box and hand me the manual. No manual. After a while (less than 24 hours) I finally figured out that the clutch needed to be depressed to start the vehicle. Subsequently we discovered that not only did the clutch need to be depressed, the shift had to be in either neutral or first gear and not always the same. Sometimes it was neutral; sometimes it was first. You never knew.

Nevertheless, I got the vehicle started, adjusted the seat and steering wheel several hundred times (long legs) and drove to Andorra where I immediately went on the web and found Bilboman's report. I was looking for some instruction on the Autohold feature. Thanks to Bilboman I also found the manual (which will not be there if you have the navigation system for it uses the space in which the manual is hidden in non-nav vehicles).

The Autohold is quite useful once you get used to it. However, as Bilboman says, you have to turn it on once the car is started. It works great uphill; you really want to turn it off downhill.

As for stalling, I have not stalled a manual shift in years. This Passat had an unbelievable turbo lag. We have a short, steep driveway in Andorra. You need the low end torque to get up it, but even though I floored the accelerator, the car would die. If the turbo kicked in when in the middle of the drive I would have driven into the field next door and have to have fed the horses. After a restart, the turbo would kick in and we would get up the drive without incident. One of our house guests is a woman who would have done well on the F1 circuit. When my wife told her that I stalled the Passat she snickered. Then as I returned from skiing one day, she sheepishly admitted that she stalled the damn thing twice that day.

I have a couple of diesels now, a 2003 Jetta wagon and a new 2009 Jetta wagon (in addition to a Touareg (gas) and a Saab convertible). I love the new Jetta, same engine as the Passat diesel, but better suited for the engine. I am now thrilled that I could not get that Passat. The 3 liter diesel engine is probably a choice, but in the US you will probably have to go to the Audi or the coming Touareg.

In any event, thank you Bilboman. Your experience was extremely helpful for us.

Tom

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - daveyjp
"Subsequently we discovered that not only did the clutch need to be depressed, the shift had to be in either neutral or first gear and not always the same. Sometimes it was neutral; sometimes it was first. You never knew. "

It doesn't matter what gear you are in or if you are in neutral - if it's not starting you aren't pushing the clutch far enough in.

I learnt this lesson in a new A4 after stalling on a roundabout. This car needed to have the clutch right to the floor - much further than you needed to depress it to actually change gear. This resulted in me overextending my leg to start the thing which after a few days was causing real pain. Adjusting the seat so I was close enough to start the car meant I was too close to the pedals when I tried to drive it.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - nick
Perhaps VW should look at the Hillholder device fitted to many Subaru models for years. A simple reliable device but maybe that's too easy.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - David Horn
This car
needed to have the clutch right to the floor - much further than you needed
to depress it to actually change gear.


So I don't need to push the clutch to the floor each time I change gear? It's possible to get really smooth changes on my Passat by only pushing the clutch halfway, but I worry that it damages the synchromesh.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - rcspeirs
It's very reassuring to know it's not just me.

I'd a rental Passat recently. The bluemotion version. Quite staggering how little fuel it used, despite 'press on' driving. But oh dear me - that stupid electronic handbrake. When you're jumping in a rental car - you just want things to work as you expect. That device does not meet that test. I loathed it.

I also stalled when attempting to park. I thought it was because I don't drive manuals much these days. But maybe it was the car's fault after all!
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - DP
I don't see what the problem is. We have the auto parking brake on the Scenic and while you might be able to criticse it for being unnecessary / pointless etc, it has never done anything that has annoyed or offended. It just works. Maybe VW's setup is not as good.

cheers
DP
Passat - Old Navy
I did not like the electric handbrake on a C-Max I rented for a couple of weeks, thought I would get used to it but no chance. Before I retired we had a Passat estate TD of some sort as a pool car, The "diesel" drivers had problems with stalling, the "petrol" drivers did not, The general concensus was that the ECU was set up to be as "petrol like" as possible, poor low rev torque.

Edited by Old Navy on 20/02/2009 at 10:06

Passat - ifithelps
Ford dropped the electric parking brake in the last C-Max facelift a year or two ago.

The current Titanium has a narrow Z-shaped handle (no visible plastic boot) which takes up very little space between the seats.

Edited by ifithelps on 20/02/2009 at 18:37

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - james.fry

Every rental car I've had has been different, especially in the USA. All have been autos, but all have had different handbrake set ups. Some have passat style electronic parking brakes, some have mercedes style foot pedals, some have handbrakes, some have brake handles. Some have hill start assist / autohold.

Similarly, every manual car has a different gearbox with slightly different layout (especially if there are 6 gears) and different clutch mechanisms and feel / bite points / bite aggression.

If you want things to behave as you expect from your usual car then hire the same make and model that you usually drive! Jumping into an unfamiliar car and expecting to drive it away without learning about the car sounds irresponsible to me.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - TeeCee

Too right. A mate who works for <multinational car hire firm> says they've stopped buying Passats as too many come back with the rear end smashed.

Apparently a lot of people fail to guess[1] that the 'leccy brake disengages automatically and resort to heel and toe hill starts, despite being unpracticed in the art.

I had one on hire recently. To be honest I didn't mind the 'leccy brake, it was the fact that it was the most tediously boring thing I have ever driven that did for me. Nothing to hate about it, but nothing to like either. A shining monument to 6/10 adequacy in every single area IMHO.

[1] "Guess" because even if the manual is present and they find it, it quite often isn't in a language they understand...

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - mare
I sympathize with the OP completely. i had the misfortune of having a 2.0TDI manual last October when the Grandis broke down enroute to Blackpool.

I was a gibbering wreck as well. I made the mistake of parking on a slope against a wall and couldn't find the Auto hold, and it was late... well it was horrible and i parked it on the flat since.

Stalled really easily too.

Hateful horrible car. Although had it been an automatic, i bet it would have been fine. Did 50mpg too.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Alby Back
Last year I arrived in Italy having pre-booked a hired estate car, I was presented with a new Espace. This did not please me as I have an aversion to the model having owned an example of the previous version which just about caused me to end it all.

The wretched hired one had no handbook and one of those electric handbrakes. By day three I had figured out how to use it but not before frightening the pizza out of several Italians. Hate the things.....
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - ole cruiser
I sympathize entirely with the OP, Avant et al - but perhaps from a different point of view. That is, when my brand new Mondeo was parked outside the doctor's, a man who lived in the road drove his shiny new Passat into the adjacent space, locked it up and walked away. His car then slowly and gracefully rolled into mine whilst I watched. Fortunately I was able to restrain his car. When I asked for his insurance details, just in case, he gibbered about the wretched handbrake system too. Truly, what's it all for? A handbrake goes into the handbrake space, what's wrong with that?
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Pat L
I always leave a car parked in gear - normal or electric handbrake.

Incidentally, the Passat engine will only start if the clutch is fully depressed, again a good idea. I once watched a mate of mine start up his BMW in a garage and he drove it straight into the wall. Ouch! It was in first gear and he didn't depress the clutch.

I've had my Passat about 2.5 years now and I'm used to the electronic thingy (mine doesn't have hill hold as far as I know) but if I'm in a hilly area I'd prefer a normal handbrake.

My third engine has now done 5k miles and is loosening up a bit at last. I just hope it lasts longer than the other two! (total mileage now 29k).

Pat

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - stunorthants26
Maybe im ignorant, but what exactly is the point of this feature? Why is a cable operated system so undesireable?
Ive always thought that, especially with todays often dodgy electrics, relying on them for safety related roles seems crazy - just imagine if your self-parking car has a malfunction and desides to do something else instead!
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Lygonos
Already mentioned by nick above: Subaru's hillholder clutch.

Stop on a hill, depress brake and clutch... release the breake pedal and.... Presto! The car sits still while you hold the clutch down.

Engage first gear (clutch is still depressed, remember).. bring the revs up and lift the clutch to the biting point.. the brakes release just as the bite is found and off you go.

Totally intuitive, totally effort and stress-free.

Expensive electronics to fail ?

Nope - it's basically a ballbearing in a tube (easily adjustable mechanism if the bite/brake release becomes out of synch).

Cheap and reliable.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - wrangler_rover
Does anybody know how the electronic handbrake on the new avansis works?
Passat - Avant
Perhaps more to the point, does anyone know why?

People above either get used to them or continue to hate them. But nobody has yet come up (either on this forum or in any of the magazines I read) with a compelling reason to have them rather than the ordinary mechanical lever.

Edited by Avant on 20/02/2009 at 23:58

Passat - Robin Reliant
As I have commented before when discussing these things, in all the years I've been driving I've never once applied the handbrake and thought, "I wish there was an easier way of doing this".


Passat - rtj70
Robin Reliant, I am 100% with you. It's not an on-off things either. I thought the S-Max style handbreak was a gimmick too. It seems a packaging thing (free up space) but what is wrong with a handbrake?

Then again many live with Mercedes' foot operated parking brakes without complaining including some having a manual car. A manual C class has a foot operated parking break does't it? It did. So an auto-hold feature would be a bonus there.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - BigD1980
I am currently driving a passat highline 2.0 tdi estate as a rental car whilst mine is in for repair. The electronic handbrake is a joke! The auto hold is a joke! Apart from these the car is beautiful to drive.

I have owned cars ranging in size from my first car - a Kia Pride 1.3 through to an Alfa 166 V6. I have owned diesels, petrols, hatches, estates, saloons, coupes, autos and manuals. I have never came across such a ridiculous handbrake system! I don't like the Mercedes foot pedal on pull lever off system due to a lack of control. But even that seems ok compared to this ridiculous system. I didn't realise the auto hold turned itself off. I found myself creeping ever closer to a bollard. I then had to stop and think why it would be rolling. Oh thats right the stupid auto hold was now off. I also agree with those before that have mentioned the stalling issue. I haven't stalled a car for years. I am still stalling this damn thing!
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Avant
Fortunately there's no need for anyone to buy a Passat. An Octavia is cheaper and has just as much space; a Golf estate is almost as roomy but more compact; and if you need the space, by all accounts the Mondeo is excellent. All have proper handbrakes.

Maybe there are so many on rental fleets because VW can't flog them to people who might have thought of one but don't want the stupid parking brake or the equally unnecessary separate starter button.
Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - james.fry

It is your responsibility as a driver to familiarise yourself with the car before you drive it. The car rental company should have told you where the instruction book was, and given you guidance in using the parking brake / autohold feature. If you stalled while manouevering then it would have been prudent to stop the car before attempting to continue - as you found out, cars without power steering are much harder work (perhaps one reason our grandparents didn't drive around like lunatics).

I have a Passat with the auto hold feature and think it is great, including when parallel parking on a hill. It doesn't have to be switched on every time at startup - the computer can be programmed, no, set (programming makes it sounds like it is difficult) to turn the autohold feature on automatically or off automatically when you start the car. It also disables the autohold feature if you haven't got your seatbelt in - this stops the car from automatically removing the parking brake and allowing you to drive off.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - BackBoiler

Don't know whether you had a duff car but I couldn't disagree more. I have a VW Tiguan and the auto hold handbrake is absolutely superb. It works perfectly every time whether on flat ground or steep hills. It is the finest facilty ever in stop-start traffic simply press the brake, come to a stop and take foot off the brake pedal. The car holds like a limpet yet as soon as the accelerator is pressed off it goes without any slippage whatsoever. It also causes no annoyance at night to drivers behind - too often these days drivers sit with their foot on the brake pedal with the stop-lights glaring behind.

I should add that my vehicle has DSG gearbox and using auto hold automatically disengages any clutches so I can leave the gear lever in 'drive' or 'sport' without having to put it n neutral. Having read a few negative reviews I was initially worried about auto-hold but now I would hate to go back to the old pull-up handbrake. By the way I have over 50 years' driving experience on all sorts of vehicles including HGVs and, with DSG and auto-hold I am presently experiencing the best driving satisfaction ever.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Avant

Welcome to the forum, Backboiler. I suspect that these gadgets are fine on a car with automatic or DSG transmissions, but something of a nightmare on a manual.

I've driven for 45 years, and I've never had a problem with an ordinary handbrake, so have never seen the need for a solution to a problem that isn't there. But tastes differ, and I'm glad you're happy with yours. It should perhaps be an optional extra for those that want it.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Arthur H

I totally agree with you. Why car manufacturers don't stick to good old fashioned manual handbrakes is beyond me, I'd even go so far as to say these gadgets are unsafe, cause stress and I would sue the manufacturer if I had an accident. They get foisted on you when you get a hire car (especially when going away on business and there is NO WAY I would buy a car with an electronic handbrake, and I love gadgets I used to work in IT.

So if manufacturers want a customer satisfaction survey which means anything ask us about electronic handbrakes, then be prepared for a load of criticism and a lawsuit - with accompanying publicity of course if I ever had a crash in a car with these devil's inventions.

A human being is equipeed wity 4 limbs which can work independently - that is CONTROL. When I gave the car hire company some feedback I explained the car was fine but the electronic hgandbrake was a nightmare, you have to design cars which hold a big family driving upo a 1 in 3 hill full of luggage - how thw hell do you avoid going backwards? the answer was there aren't many hills in Britain, I replied try the Scottish highlands or the Pennines where I frequently go - you can shove your electronic unsafe handbrake where the sun doesn't shine...

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - unthrottled

Society gets the handbrakes it deserves. A penchant for rear disc brakes and the common habit of using the clutch as a brake conspired to make the conventional handbrake an unattractive proposition for manufacturers.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - Arthur H

If people use the clutch as a handbrake they are stuipd. I still fail to see why car manufacturers should bow to idiots instead of sticking to something which gives you full control. Seeing as we are overpopulated and the roads are full it's time we got the useless drivers off the road then and stick to what is right.

Passat "Auto Hold" - Auto Hell - unthrottled

There were too many warranty claims on DMFs. You'll notice that a lot of newer diesels are less resiliant to stalling than older ones. That is not unintentional.

You can of course incorporate a conventional handbrake on to a brake disc but it isn't as easy as connecting a simple cable to a drum. There was never a good reason to put discs on the rear axle-consumers brought that upon themselves through vanity and misunderstanding.

Electronic handbrakes are a cost saver-dressed up as a labour saver.