Hi,
Good to hear from you, but sorry to learn that your car is suffering the same fate as mine. By the sound of things, you're also suffering the same level of disinterest from your Mazda dealer!
First things first, since my last post, I've learned that we're far from being alone in this problem. I contacted the Czech gentleman (Happy007 - see forum earlier) and have since been liaising with his forum members here in the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Croatia. All have experienced the same 'piston-slap' issue (if, indeed, that is the cause of the noise) and all have received the same treatment by their respective Mazda dealers!
My most recent actions have been a letter to the MD at Mazda Motor UK (Darford), and also a letter to the MD at Mazda Motor Europe (Germany). However, I would advise that you also bombard tte Technical & Customer Services Manager with this issue(annoyingly, I'm not allowed to cite his name on this forum). Send him a recording of the noise, too, as I did. The more the merrier.
As for going back to the dealer, best of luck with that, but my feeling is that it's out of their hands. I really think Mazda needs to face up to the fact that there is a major problem with some of their cars and get it sorted, rather than to consistently deny its existence.
I'll let you know as soon as I get a reply from the two letters, but ultimately, it's going to be down to legal action in my case as soon as I've arranged a firm date with our Expert Witness in the UK.
Best of luck.
Regards.
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Do you mean Chris Twine?
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That's the man! We've exchanged countless numbers of mails since day-1. All responses have been courteous, but appear devoted to deflecting the issue, rather than to resolve same. It seems he can't hear the knocking noise in the sound files sent, even though everyone else has managed to detect the noise easily and to offer an opinion.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
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Thanks for the reply.
I'm no expert on cars but I have owned quite a few, mostly new, and NONE have ever made this sort of noise, (except one about 20 years ago which was a very old Ford Cortina when the camshaft was on its way out). To me it's a very similar noise, or like the oil isn't lubricating the camshaft and gets louder as the revs increase. It is quite loud too, I can hear it from inside the house when my wife pulls away outside. I should also mention that the noise on my car does stop after a couple of minutes driving and doesn't happen every time from cold start, only seems to be if its very cold or hasn't been driven for a few days.
Is that the same on yours or does yours knock all the time?
It's a shame because otherwise we like the car. We've had 4 new alloy wheels and a clock which Mazda changed under warranty without so much of a blink, so why be so unresponsive to this problem especially if its isolated to a handful of cars and not 000,s?
To be honest, I'm not sure I could go through all the hassle you've been through and would be more likely to part exchange it for another car. We particularly like the new Mazda 6, but I'm not sure I could buy Mazda again with any real confidence after reading the way Mazda UK is handling this problem.
I look forward to reading your update and also let you know what my local dealer says when it goes in for service.
Cheers for now.
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apols if I've missed it, but weren't you going to upload the sound onto youtube or similar?
Would help a heck of a lot if we could actually HEAR the noise?
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Hello again,
Absolutely correct. Tried to download files from my wife's vid-phone onto our PC. While the vid was good, there was no sound. Turns out that they were MPEG4 files, and my player couldn't handle them. Downloaded a converter, but while the vid played, the sound was barely understandable. So, have bought a handycam and have yet to install the software, make a few recordings etc.
However, if you want to hear the sound now, it's available on the Mazda-3 forum (where attachment of files is made nice and easy). See my link: www.mazda3forums.co.uk/index.php?topic=940.0
The particular posting was made to Daiking (Forum Administrator) on Feb-4. You should be able to download it easily, but if you have any probs, please feel free to mail me and I will be happy to send it to you.
I leave you to judge for yourself after you've listened to the sound, but would welcome your thoughts on the cause.
Regards,
Mossbridge
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apols if I've missed it but weren't you going to upload the sound onto youtube or similar? Would help a heck of a lot if we could actually HEAR the noise?
Hello again, WhoopWhoop,
Below, are the promised links to the first of many videos I hope to put on the You-Tube service. One was recorded yesterday (13-02-08), the other (showing the car in motion) was recorded earlier, but on a different format.
Both files give you some idea of the noise, but we have other (MP4) recordings where the sound is far worse, but which I have yet to convert.
Your comments welcomed.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8vdvgSIxZE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YuEzg0I7pU
Mossbridge
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Certainly sounds like piston slap to me. I wouldn't be happy with that.
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I wouldn't be happy with that.
Like wise though could it be the "air tumbler flaps in the inlet manifold" as posted above?
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It sounds like a solid metal-on-metal knock to me. I would have thought air tumbler flaps wouldn't sound so meaty. Could be wrong though.
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Hi Nick,
That's exactly how I described the sound from day-1; as if the mains were runnng without oil for a time. Coincidentally, two US guys (who seemed to know their Mazdas inside out) both said that it sounded like low-end bearing or rod hammer. But on two engines????
Mossbridge
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But on two engines????
That's where the air tumbler flaps make sense because the manifold would have been swapped from one engine to another.
I agree it sounds more substantial though.
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Have you tried using a big screwdriver as a stethoscope? One with a round wooden handle is best. Place the blade against the inlet manifold and your ear against the handle end. You may be able to discriminate better between the sounds by doing that. If the inlet manifold sounds quiet, then try the block or crankcase (if you can see them under all the plastic and stuff that is).
Crude, but sometimes effective. Of course if you're a doctor you could try a real stethoscope.
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Have you tried using a big screwdriver as a stethoscope? One with a round wooden
Hi Lud,
Brings back memories of days long gone when my hands were either covered in Black oil or with Swarfega! Yes, I've used the stethoscope test on many an occasion in the past (Rover V8s with hyd. tappets especially), but not even thought about it on this.
To be honest, I'm not really too keen on pin-pointing the noise on Mazda's behalf, Lud. I bought the car brand-new and it developed the fault within two weeks. As far as I'm concerned, I've been sold a duff product and it needs to be changed or my money back. All involved have had the car in their respective possessions often enough and long enough. I'm not about to start doing their job for them.
Many thanks for the thought, though. If you hear of any similar cases, I would really appreciate the nod.
Best regards,
Mossbridge
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But Mossbridge, just supposing these flaps in the inlet tract were making a sensational but harmless clamour, would you really want to go through the hassle of suing Mazda (!) rather than getting it cured with a dab of grease or whatever?
Perhaps it isn't piston slap and Mazda are right. If it is and they are lying, I look forward to the story hitting the financial or business pages some time soon. But if I had a nice new car that made an inexplicable noise, I'd hope it was a harmless noise rather than convincing myself that the engine had worn out in far too few miles.
Of course I hope you get an outcome satisfactory to you.
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Hi, Lud,
Yes, I know what you're saying, but don't forget, I didn't diagnose the knock as that of piston-slap; Mazda's own Specialist did that. They also confirmed that there are other such cases in the UK alone (in writing). I assumed then, that they knew what they were talking about when they insisted that a short engine would solve the problem, even though I insisted that a full power-train should be the MINIMUM they offer, after a new car was refused (in writing).
I'm not 'convincing' myself that the problem is worse than it really might be, I'm relying on the expert advice of one of Mazda's own top men!
And what makes you think that a dab of grease or similar will resolve the problem? Last time they had the car apart, the results were life-threatening. We always buy new, rather than second-hand cars, simply to avoid any hassle or time wastage. Then we bought a Mazda-3!
Mazda has at least one Czech-speaking person working for Mazda EU (he translated some of my mails for me while over here). Mazda only has to translate the pages on the Czech forum (if they haven't done so already) to know just how many M3s have EXACTLY the same problem as mine; ALL have received the same response from their respective dealers. Why is that, do you think?
While I don't want to decry those who are (rightly) well-satisfied with their own Mazdas, there is a very real issue here and I don't believe that it's being addressed by Mazda, and I certainly don't have any intention of allowing Mazda as many attempts as they like to 'get it right'. Three is the accepted maximum, and they exhausted those a long time ago!
Many thanks for the response, Lud. It's appreciated.
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Yeah, sorry, I haven't heard the noise of course!
I agree it must be very annoying to buy a nice new sewing-machine-sounding Japanese car with a good reputation and have it turn into a slapper in a couple of weeks...
:o}
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I agree it sounds more substantial though.
Agreed. However, when the bonnet's open, the noise does seem to emanate from the block/lower half. As made clear earlier on, my original thoughts were big or small-end knock (in the first engine), but that was ruled out of court by the Mazda Specialist at the time.
Also, past experience on older cars leads me to expect the noise to increase with heat expansion, rather than to decrease. Whatever the cause, I've no intention of putting up with it as being 'normal for a Mazda-3!
Regards,
Mossbridge
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Hello again, Cheddar,
Just responded to Nick to say that Mazda UK don't agree there's a problem at all. Piston-slap, air-tumbler flaps or other, there just isn't a problem; Mazda said so!
Best regards,
Mossbridge
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Certainly sounds like piston slap to me. I wouldn't be happy with that.
Hello, Nick,
Thanks for that. Mazda UK have also replied today, after I sent the link to them. They say that from the recording, it's impossible to tell whether there is a defect at all! Maybe I'm missing something........
Thanks again.
Mossbridge
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>>They say that from the recording, it's impossible to tell whether there is a defect at all!
Well they would, wouldn't they?! :-)
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I look forward to reading your update and also let you know what my local dealer says when it goes in for service. Cheers for now.
Hello again,
The engine on our car is equally noisy when started from cold, but does go away as the bores warm. It also does happen on every occasion, although, is worse when the car has been standing for a few days.
I attached the problem to a fall in temperature while still in the UK, only a few days after taking delivery of the car. The ambient temp indicator on the car showed minus 3C, and it knocked terribly. I then suspected that the lower the temperature, the greater the degree of noise. While this is true for the most part, it is not a constant. There were occasions in the Summer months when it knocked just as loudly, but I suppose that could be allocated to not using the car daily.
If, as you say, it's the same on yours, then maybe there's a lubrication problem; e.g. does the oil drain away from 'vital' parts when standing for too long? But if that's the case, then why does it not occur on all M3s? And, what is 'too' long? Shouldn't happen at all!
While all this hypothesising is interesting, it shouldn't be necessary, should it?
Best of luck with yours. I look forward to any news you have and will update you with mine.
Best regards,
Mossbridge
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Just spotted this thread and thought I'd contribute. I've got a 2005 23k mile Focus with the zetec s-e engine, it clatters with piston slap when cold, on the overrun at 1800 revs and when idling. I believe ford shares the same Yamaha design engines so I'm not at all surprised to hear about the Mazda problem. Two main dealers were unable or unwilling to diagnose the problem and its getting worse. Noise got worse about at about 5000 miles from new. The classic piston slap noise goes away when warm I'm told or at least lessens. I may put it on UTube just to get ford the bad publicity it deserves on this issue. Then I guess I go buy a Toyota which is a shame as the focus is a damn good drive :(
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Hi Focus mk2,
Many thanks for that.
Yes, I was told early on in this battle that they share the same engine design and, I suspect, the same potential for flaws.
Likewise, I feel that Mazda has let themselves down with this model. The car is a nice drive (apart from that truly, damned annoying boy-racer exhaust resonator), but my experience of Mazda's dealership(s), coupled with Mazda's handling of this current problem is sufficient for me to know that buying a Mazda was a mistake. It won't happen again under any circumstances.
Yes, put it on You-Tube. I have many recordings yet to put on (as soon as I've managed to convert same). The noise you hear on my first You-Tube vids is fairly tame compared to some mornings. We have a neighbour who is some 50m away and he heard the noise one morning last Summer! Unfotunately, I didn't have that one recorded, but I've got others equally as bad.
However, I don't know about Ford dealers, but Mazda employees, it seems, all share the same hearing impediment!!!
Best regards and good luck with yours.
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Hello Mossbridge,
Glad you`ve found some support in all this trouble.
Waiting to hear more of your engine noises, are you going to do one with the bonnet up?
Thought i would just add a few comments about oil and engine noise while waiting and to keep your thread alive while we are waiting.
this is *not a solution to you* with your new car, but just a few thoughts on oil viscosity and engine noise.
I`m interested in what engine`s have been totally designed around the 5w30/0w30, oil viscosities and which have been designed for higher viscosity oils and then put on lower for other (commercial fleet) reasons.
But let me give an example with our 2002 Fiat 1.9 indirect injection Diesel. Very much towards the end of its availability at purchase, this old school diesel used oil and sounded noisy on 5W 40 as put in during a warranty service.
Recognising the engine type as allegedly typical of its generation ie 15w 40 viscosity, I tried it on that and the oil consumption became such that it needed no top up between services and so much quieter mechanically, cold and hot.
It just happens that I swapped out 5w40 last weekend (Spring service in that warm weather) and the engine found its self starting at minus -7C on the drive this morning on 15W40. No problem, but I have never heard the engine sound quieter due to the higher (cold augmented) oil viscosity.
As relevant to the Mazda, I just wondered whether the ring pack and bores had actually been designed around (is it 5w30?) or whether they were pre existing and the oils had later been specified?
As I said, no solution to you, but if you had an old engine with piston slap and no other recourse, I bet (hydraulic tappet designs excluded) a higher viscosity oil would greatly reduce that sort of noise, if it is piston slap that is.
Regards
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I'm no expert, but those two youtube recordings didn't sound any different from a multitude of new cars I've owned when started from cold and certainly not bad enough to waste your life worrying over it! (though I do accept that it may sound worse in real life?)
You should have heard my Audi RS4 - that used to sound like a Massey Fergusson without any oil in it from cold! And that was a £50k car!
I really think you're piddling into the wind with this one... sorry.......
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I suppose it's a case of what you're prepared to accept for your money, isn;t it? If you were content to accept ANY noise at all in your £50 car, then that's entirely your decision, But I think you'd find yourself alone in that standpoint.
And as for accepting noises worse than mine in a 'multitude of new cars' you have owned, well, print out the dealer list and at least I'll know where not to shop!
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All you're doing is worrying yourself into an early grave with stress over something which you will never win!
Mazda sell car. Purpose of car is to get from A to B reliably. Car does this. Car makes a noise which Mazda say is normal. Car still works as designed.
Do you really think you'll get anywhere? Sure, I admire you for taking a stand, but has it occurred to you that maybe, just *maybe* the noise really *is* normal for this type of engine?
There are better things in life to spend your time on ;-)
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Mazda sell car. Purpose of car is to get from A to B reliably. Car does this. Car makes a noise which Mazda say is normal. Car still works as designed.
Fortunately for the world, Mazda (and all manufacturers) lay claim to far greater demands of their products than getting from one point to another. You're forgetting that Mazda were concerned enough by the noise in the first engine to suggest its removal; viz it was, by definition, 'abnormal' and thus not in keeping with their own design intent.
The consequnces of their not doing so were that the pistons, quite feasibly, could have shattered (as has been pointed out to me by an Expert), or otherwise failed. Realising that the engine did NOT meet their own manufacturing standards, they advised the solution; i.e. a short-engine. All of that in mind, explain to me why Mazda now refuses to resolve exactly the same noise/issue in this, their second engine?
You're obviously extremely tolerant of faulty products. Does the same philosophy apply to other consumables you purchase, I wonder? I mean, if you go out today and buy a micro-wave oven, washing-machine or garden tractor, and it fails or makes an abysmal noise, your advice, it seems is simply to accept it? After all, the machine 'goes', as you say, so it must be OK, right?
I can assure you that I am not worrying myself into an early grave at all, but you're absolutely correct when you say that there are other things in life. This is why any and all Mazda-created delays are to form part of my eventual claim for costs (as has been stated to them). As for winning, well, that all depends upon one's expectations of the term, doesn't it?
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You're forgetting that Mazda were concerned enough by the noise in the first engine to suggest its removal; viz it was by definition 'abnormal' and thus not in keeping with their own design intent.
or maybe their customer service is so outstanding that they changed the engine despite firmly believing that there was nothing wrong with it, in order to try to satisfy a particularly difficult customer? It's not unknown....
You're obviously extremely tolerant of faulty products.
no, not at all... I'm just realistic and reasonable, and if something does the job it's meant to do, then thats fine in my eyes (and those of the law, funnily enough).
Does the same philosophy apply to other consumables you purchase I wonder? I mean if you go out today and buy a micro-wave oven washing-machine or garden tractor and it fails or makes an abysmal noise...
1. Yours hasn't failed.
2. The noise isn't abysmal.
So thats a daft comparison.
This is why any and all Mazda-created delays are to form part of my eventual claim for costs (as has been stated to them).
Best of luck.... you'll need it!
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Hi WhoopWhoop,
We could go on ad-infinitum, but it wouldn't serve any purpose, so let's just say that we agree to disagree. A couple of final points in closing, though.....
When Mazda suggested changing the engine, I was far from being a difficult customer (as they would inform you). In fact, only one mail had been exchanged at that time and we met on very cordial terms at the Dealer's premises.
You cited the law, not me. But since you did, you should be aware that I am following that very guidance to the letter. (See, also, the very helpful and informative FAQs on this forum.)
Finally, my car did fail and has the potential for still further detrimental failure (as advised by two eminently qualified people). Irrespective of your own opinion, the noise is abysmal, as confirmed by numerous others; i.e. neighbours, respondees on this forum, the Mazda-3 UK forum, Mazda International (US), Mazda CZ fourm. In fact, there's only you and two Mazda dealers who don't seem to be able to accept that fact. I wonder why.
Thanks for your time, but I don't consider your input to be of any real value.
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>>We could go on ad-infinitum, but it wouldn't serve any purpose, so let's just say that we agree to disagree.
Yep, ok!
A couple of final points in closing, though.....
Huh, so we're not just agreeing to disagree then??!
the noise is abysmal as confirmed by numerous others;
>>i.e. neighbours
Um... your neighbours... very "expert" !!
respondees on this forum
Internet forums... where of course everyone's an expert on everything!
the Mazda-3 UK forum
ditto
Mazda CZ fourm
ditto
In fact there's only two Mazda dealers who don't seem to be able to accept that fact.
So the only two people that don't accept it are the only two people that are qualified to offer an expert opinion!
I wonder why.
I'm sure the penny will drop and you'll work it out soon ;-)
Thanks for your time but I don't consider your input to be of any real value.
No problem. Best of luck.. don't have a heart attack.. it's only a car :-)
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As I said no solution to you but if you had an old engine with piston slap and no other recourse I bet (hydraulic tappet designs excluded) a higher viscosity oil would greatly reduce that sort of noise if it is piston slap that is. Regards
Hello again, OilRag,
Your comments and thoughts are welcome.
I've had my concerns about the viscosity for some time, in fact, not long after the noise arrived in this, the replacement engine. My feeling is that the 5W30 is too thin for 'moderate' temperatures.
I recall looking through the 'net some time ago and finding a site which seemed to devote itself to anything oil-releted. There was some mention of 0W30 being tried in a hybrid, but I can't recall the details. It made sense when he advised that, of course, this oil should NOT be used in your average motor! However, he pointed out that 5W30 was OK for places such as Sweden, where low-temps are something of a norm. On that premise, I think a 5W it too thin across a 'moderate' temperature range (my opinion only).
This week, the original dealer who sold me the car and then bodged up the repair, finally responded to my request for the oil they put into the car after their 'repair'. It was Castrol GTX Magnatec A1 5W-30, whereas the oil used during the car's first service (Czech dealer), was Total's Dexelia 5W30. I'm advised that the latter is a semi-synth, but don't know if the first is synthetic proper or not.
I do know that when I put Magnetec into a Honda-engined Rover 600, it sounded absolutely awful. I chucked it out, put a good 15W40 mineral oil in and no probs, no sound, in all temps!
As for recording the sound with the bonnet up, will do asap. Thanks again for the support and your thoughts, Oil-Rag. Appreciated.
Best regards,
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You do realise that 5W is not the viscosity at 100deg C or running temperature? It signifies the cold (w=winter) flow rate of the oil. All 0W30, 5W30, 10W30 oils are of the same viscosity, more or less, when up to temperature. But, the lower the W number, the quicker it gets around the system, especially to the valve gear. Little table in this link shows how the viscosity (expressed in centistokes) varies with temperature: www.driverstechnology.co.uk/oil-technology.htm
Follow the makers advice re quality AND viscosity, is all I'd say.
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Hi Nortones2,
Yes, I did know that, thanks.
Because the problem centres around the 'cold' value of the oil's pour-point, I'm only really concerning myself with that aspect of the viscosity.
Thanks for the link, but see also 'The Engine-Oil Bible', specifically, this part (extracted verbatim):
.......an idea where typical engine oils are used:
Oil type Typically used in....
5W-30 Cooler climates, like Sweden or Canada
10W-40 Temperate climates, like England
15W-50 Hot climates, like Italy, Spain, Egypt
My feeling is that 5W is too thin an oil for a moderate climate, hence the clatter when starting from cold on some cars, but not an adequate explanation for the hammer in my car.
Many thanks.
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"You do realise that 5W is not the viscosity at 100deg C or running temperature"
And the advantage of it being thin is that it gets there quick. The disadvantage is that it doesnt offer much protection when its there and so thin. Oils are a compromise.
Could it be lack of sufficient lubrication at start up? I havent listend to the sounds though!
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Hi Yorkiebar,
I used to think that was the case, based upon the longer the car stood idle, the noisier it would be at start up. But it wasn't consistent enough to prove to be the case.
Equally, I thought, initially, that the colder the weather, the worse the noise. Again, that's generally the case, but not guaranteed. There were times in the Summer, for example, when we had used the car just the night before, woke up to a warm Summer's day, but had the same terrible hammering noise on start-up.
I take your point re the oil 'getting there', but have to offset that against the benefits of a more viscous oil hanging around contacted surfaces for longer (i.e. stickier). The most obvious example being running an engine with flushing oil (as used to be the norm in the good ol' days). I think that's about 0W if I recall?
Thanks for the thought. Watch the You-Tube vid if you like, or I can link you to a sound file (.wav). Best regards.
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Sorry, Nortones2, didn't see your closing line until now.
Yes, you're absolutely right. Theories aside, I wouldn't dream of messing about with the oil at all, at least, not until this issue is resolved!
Many thanks.
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I recall looking through the 'net some time ago and finding a site which seemed to devote itself to anything oil-releted. There was some mention of 0W30 being tried in a hybrid but I can't recall the details. It made sense when he advised that of course this oil should NOT be used in your average motor!
Why not? Factory oil specification for my car is 0w30 - as a result, it runs exclusively on Castrol Edge 0w30.
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Following my earlier comments about ring packs and bores, it would be interesting to know when this engine design was specified 5W30 oil.
In other words does design of the pistons and rings precede the decision to specify thin 5w 30 oil, perhaps allegedly as a result of running a hydraulic tappet head?
I mean, were the block/piston/ring elements carried over from an earlier incarnation of the engine and was it at that time specified a thicker oil?
Pistons/ring packs design, versus, production tolerances or engine damage?
Does anyone know of an engine of any marque specified thin long service oils on a pre existing piston/ring pack that (allegedly) can`t handle it?
Not that this refers to the Mazda, but is perhaps of peripheral interest given the relationship between engine oil viscosity as a factor in noise from piston slap (and oil consumption) on certain engines where for whatever reason tolerances are excessive.
Regards
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At start-up a cold 15W50 oil is 76 times as viscous as it is when hot. Look at it in the real measurement for viscosity, in centistokes (cSt). At running temps (approx) an SAE 5W40 oil is 14 cSt, but the 0c viscosity is 811 cSt. Don't worry about the 5W or the 0W being thin: its still comparatively treacle like at 0 degrees C. As for water: that's 1.0038 cSt at ordinary temperatures, but approaching an infinite number at freezing point!
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Nortontones,
ACEA allow 0W40, 5W40, 10W40 oils to be a lower viscosity at 150C than 15W40. I think that`s open to be overlooked with an assumption that at high temperature any oil with `40` at the end will be the same viscosity.
You can reference it in the viscosity section (bottom PDF) here if you`re interested in more detail on oil specs.
Hence an engine running at normal temperature, if its ring oil control is marginal at lower viscosity, can have a significantly different oil consumption (and noise) between 5w40 and 15w40.
www.infineum.com/information/tables.html
regards
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Yes, there are variations. I was simplifying! I recall a comment on 15W40 - but where is the ACEA reference to this grade? I presume it is connected to the HTHS properties, but can't actually see where a comment on the grade is in the document.
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As for water: that's 1.0038 cSt at ordinary temperatures butapproaching an infinite number at freezing point!
Understood and agreed. But it doesn't remove the fact that Magnatec in my former Rover engine sounded appallingly noisy. After the oil & filetr change, it was a different machine entirely.
I appreciate the science of what you're saying, but I wonder whether the M3 engine would sound/perform better with a 15W/40 mineral oil?
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oil consumption) on certain engines where for whatever reason tolerances are excessive. Regards
OilRag,
Understood and agree entirely! I would be very interested to learn the history of same.
Regards,
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Why not? Factory oil specification for my car is 0w30 - as a result it runs exclusively on Castrol Edge 0w30.
Hi MichaelR,
Thanks for your comment. Can I ask whether your car exhibits any noise at all at start-up from cold?
Regards,
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No, no out of the ordinary noises on startup from cold. The engine is a bit noisier from cold, but other than that, its absolutely fine. 0w30 is manufacturers recommendation and all the car has ever had since new - it is now on 150k miles and 6 years old
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No no out of the ordinary noises on startup from cold. The engine is a bit noisier from cold but other than that its absolutely fine. 0w30 is manufacturers recommendation and all the car has ever had since new - it is now on 150k miles and 6 years old
Hi, MichaelR,
Many thanks for that. It helps reinforce our conviction that the noise we hear is mechanical, rather than the result of a viscosity concern.
Regards,
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"can't actually see where a comment on the grade is in the document."
Hi Nortontones, Its near the bottom on the last PDF file.
Regards
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oilrag: I see now. But, isn't that the SAE j300 viscosity document, which gives the range for each SAE number? Within these ranges, products vary. On the table given, the 2x 40 ranges have the same 100C value. They differ in the HTHS value minimum only, which is arguably the main issue for wear, at high loads. But I think we're getting off the point here BTW:)
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OilRag,
Just a short note to let you know that I have just uploaded a short vid to You-Tube, demonstrating the noise with the bonnet open, as requested. (In fact, it's still being processed as I write 20-02-08.)
I'm afraid it's not as long as I would have liked; we were, literally, on our way to a meeting and so just threw open the bonnet for a moment or two before setting off. I might do another if time permits, but at the moment, the house renovation work is taking its toll.
I don't know if it comes out in the video, but with the bonnet up while making the recording, the noise did seem to emanate from the lower-half of the engine, rather than at the top end. I may be wrong, and I know that a steth might help, but on the spur of the moment, it sounded bottom end. I'll put my ear to a rod as and when I get the chance.
Also, when the thottle was blipped gently, the air-intake sounds too 'throaty' for my liking. It might be something I just haven't noticed before, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't as vocal in the past - maybe wrong. The worst part is towards the end of the recording.
Yours thoughts on the vid welcomed, as always.
Best Regards.
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Nortontones, (and others)Sorry for pulling things off topic.
Mossbridge, I think I can hear a normal camshaft and tappets, that noise seems like piston slap. If it were related to the bottom end it would still be there when hot.
Question is, what passes for `normal` these days?
I`m not a professional Mechanic by the way, just someone who has spent many years working on engines, mainly to avoid `the uncaring apprentice`
Regards
I found the link
tinyurl.com/2rhbq8
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Question is what passes for `normal` these days?
SNIPQUOTE!
OilRag,
Appreciated. Just had a mail from the Dealer to say that he won't entertain my claims and that I should take the car to my local dealer if I am convinced there is a problem which, he insists, there isn't.
Coincidentally, Mazda UK have mailed to say that they are arranging another inspection at my local dealer here in the Czech Republic, to test the noise when started from cold. I'll post the outcome of the test, as and when it happens.
Best regards,
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 21/02/2008 at 19:34
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Read the thread in full.
Can not hear the noise (this PC has a server mainboard :-)
One thought...
o Mazda may use multiple suppliers for pistons
o It is possible one supplier/batch is on the edge re tolerance
o That is manifesting itself as piston slap on some engines
Roll on engine+generator+battery & electric motor cars.
Not the hybrid rubbish we have. Then again manufacturers
will cut something to the bone there (called engineering,
but done via accountants) & make simplicity into expensive.
Cars are a "widget" to sell finance, where the $ is made.
So...
o Stop screwing around - get an *RAC inspection*
o They will say if a) present b) long detrimental c) acceptable
If RAC say acceptable then trade-in against a "quiet version".
That may be cheapest, just check HonestJohn if another Marque
as some use a "customer-operated customer-funded R&D program".
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js.b1,
Do you have some kind of problem that doesn't allow you to use the full width of the message box and you have to press the enter key when you reach half way across with your words?
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Sorry, typed elsewhere and then pasted from a Sun box to Windoze box.
In so doing the message got converted to hard carriage returns.
Trying forums, YouTube, dealer techs, marque engineers is pointless.
The buyer needs an independent inspection by the RAC to rule in or out "turbulator" in the intake, piston slap, big/small knock, injectors, injector cold-start programming, camshaft, timing tensioner etc.
An auto stethoscope may be useful, but not as much as a trained ear.
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Stop screwing around - get an *RAC inspection*
That was suggested 8 weeks ago, so I assume that Mossbridge has already rejected the suggestion.
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That was suggested 8 weeks ago so I assume that Mossbridge has already rejected the suggestion.
I don't think that Mossbridge is over here at the moment
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