***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 202 *****
In this thread you may ask any question for which you need help, advice, suggestions or whatever.
It does not need to be motoring related. In fact, in this thread it should not be.
No Questions About PCs. Please use the current "computer Related Questions" thread instead.
No politics
No Speeding, speed cameras, traffic calming
No arguments or slanging matches
Nothing which we think is not following the spirit of the thread
Nothing that risks the future of this site (please see the small print for details
www.honestjohn.co.uk/credits/index.htm )
Any of the above will be deleted. If the thread becomes difficult to maintain it will simply be removed.
However, as has been said a couple of times, there is a wealth of knowledge in here, much of which is not motoring related, but most of which is useful.
This is Volume 201. Previous Volumes will not be deleted,
A list of previous volumes can be found here:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=18847
PLEASE NOTE:
When posting a NEW question, please "Reply to" the first message in this thread, i.e. this one. This keeps each question in it's own separate segment and stops each new question from getting mixed up in amongst existing questions. Also please remember to change the subject header.
Edited by Webmaster on 09/10/2007 at 01:54
|
Hi,
I have see the ones that enable a digi box signal to be sent elsewhere wirelessly, you plug a scart from the box into the transmitter and a scart from the receiver into the remote TV.
However can you extend coax aerial wirelessly, a transmitter that you plug a coax into and a receiver that the TV plugs into so as to use the remote TV's own digital tuner?
Any thought?
Thanks.
|
>>However can you extend coax aerial wirelessly, a transmitter that you plug a coax into and a receiver that the TV plugs into so as to use the remote TV's own digital tuner?<<
Like a wideband transmitter / repeater for all channels ? I've not seen any, not commercially anyway.
I think you would have to be careful that your aerial didn't pick up the signal, else you would have feedback. May have legal problems also.
If you find one then please post - it would be useful in my house
|
|
Whilst regularly used in cellular and other telecoms fields, a repeater like this for UHF TV signals would be a nightmare for the reasons already outlined, I'm not aware of any commercial products.
|
|
|
|
Many new houses already have what you appear to require, but not in the way you seem to suggest i.e. there are TV (and often FM/DAB) aerial sockets provided in appropriate rooms.
A competent aerial installation company could undertake the work or it could be a DIY project.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
Thanks guys, I want to put an aerial feed into two rooms that dont have an aerial socket, I not sure it would have to be wide band, it would take the incoming signal, encrypt it and send it, perhaps within the 802.11 protocol, then de-encrypt before feeding it into the TV.
No real problem running additional co-ax as a DIY job though as per broadband, where I first installed a wirless router four years ago to avoid the need for network cables, I would also like to avoid additional co-ax cables if possible.
Regards.
|
Are you saying you went to transmit the signal from the aerial's coax connection or an RF output from a device? Sounds like the former.
How would a device "know" what frequencies to transmit? A TV tuner "tunes" into the relevant frequencies using the aerial. There is no single frequency to "transmit".
Surely easier to put new sockets in the other two rooms? Unlike broadband needing wires run inside the house, the new coax connections can come direct from the aerial and be outside. Probably cost very little too. A hole drilled through a window frame or wall means there are no wires in the room just the box.
Or am I missing something?
|
Are you saying you went to transmit the signal from the aerial's coax connection >>
Yes.
How would a device "know" what frequencies to transmit? A TV tuner "tunes" into the relevant frequencies using the aerial. There is no single frequency to "transmit".
I understand that though I guess it would be possible to receive all signals with the TV broadcast frequency (470?862 MHz TV channels 21?69 according to Wiki though not all in use) and relay it via 802.11 or similar, perhaps it is not possible and that is why it is not available.
Or am I missing something?
>>
No, wire seems to be the answer.
|
|
|
|
>>I not sure it would have to be wide band,>
You mention a digital set top box (i.e. presumably Freeview); a wideband TV aerial will ensure the best reception for all Freeview TV and radio channels rather than the narrowband aerial so many still have in use.
I think your idea of a wireless UHF setup is a non-starter, although you might just start a new trend...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In these unusual times within the credit markets, could anyone say what would be a reasonable rate over base for a very well secured £90K small business development loan for a gowing business established 16 years?
|
2-3% over base plus 1.5% arrangement fee?
What sort of security? And what loan to value ratio?
|
|
security is fixed and floating over company assets and second charge on a Directors property. Loan is less than 50% of equity.
|
I am not a banker (although I work for a bank...) but have been looking at non-residential products in the market recently.
There are certainly products in the marketplace offering loans against commercial property at the sort of level I indicated above.
As you seem to have a charge over the Director's home, what about a residential mortgage? They seem to be available for 2 year fixes at a tad under base.
Have you tried a mortgage broker? Ask the mods to forward an email to me and I can recommend one that has been *very* helpful and extraordinarily prompt in responding. I could also mention *several* who have not.
Northern Rock will lend 6x salary on residential. Derbyshire Building Society have some interesting products as they're not a tick-the-box sort of establishment (according to their literature, anyway!) but you have to go through a broker.
|
|
Thank you Mapmaker, the intention is to repay on a five year term, so the plan is a traditional business loan. The money is to fund the development of a new product. Do you still think 2-3% over base would be reasonable?
|
Difficult to 'advise' without full knowledge of your situation - and without being a banker myself. From the detail I have seen of your circumstances, have you thought about a residential loan against the Director's house, fully flexible for early repayment without penalty charges.
The Director himself (I don't know how many of them/shareholders you have) may then wish to have the fixed/floating charge over the assets of the company.
I can only speak for personal experience (rather than as a banker) which suggests that fully flexible products secured against non-residential real estate are available in the market on an interest only basis, with the ability to roll the interest up into the loan and make flexible repayments and drawdowns at will for 2% over base. That of course relies on your own discipline to ensure the repayments are paid - rather than having a nasty bank manager demanding them.
Fully flexible products secured against owner-occupied real estate are available for a tad under base fixed for two years or more.
Email me via the mods and I can give you the full benefit of my recent research.
|
|
Thank you Mapmaker, I have a meeting with the Director concerned on Wednesday and will email you via the mods if he wants to look into the options you suggest.
|
|
|
|
Continued from IHAQ 200
Don't do it. You will ruin the soil structure. Have it elsewhere and then move the wood ash onto the veg patch.
|
I've been having bonfire night bonfires on the veg. patch for a few years - it's heavy clay soil. I just collect the ash afterwards and scatter it generally, rather than lust digging it in on the same spot. Seems fine.
Do you want to know the FT Standard Garden Bonfire construction method? It gives very good results, and is quite easy (and it does not involve inflammable liquids, etc.).
|
I do my fires like the old Roman cremations, dig a deepish pit (put the soil to oneside, this preserves the structure) build bonfire over pit, and light. when all is burnt, 90% of the ash an embers will have fallen into the pit, so just rake the rest in from around edges and bury the lot with the soil you removed, hey- presto site of fire is invisible!.
Billy.
|
|
|
"Do you want to know the FT Standard Garden Bonfire construction method? "
Go on then...
|
Ah! Ok. Get 4 wooden pallets, with closely spaced boards (the ones with big gaps aren't quite so good), stand them on end and nail them together to make a box with no bottom or top. Make the back of a more substantial pallet, if possible. Nail a board to the back to tie the Guy to. Stand the box on a couple of lengths of fence posts or similar timber laid on the ground. Put a lot of pieces of screwed-up newspaper in, to start the fire, a good thick layer, fill the rest of the box up with small pieces of timber, such as smashed pallet boards, with the biggest on top. Tie on the guy. When ready, light the newspaper sticking out of the bottom.
You'll get something like this:
image50.webshots.com/550/0/88/35/28540883500428740...g
Be very careful if it's windy.
Draught will rush up the inside of the pallets, and the fire will burn very brightly for a short while, then collapse virtually on the spot, in my experience.
|
Maybe:
img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bild0658nm5.jpg
would actually work.
|
Thanks for that FT. Do not give much for chances of tree in background tho....
Phil I
|
A few leaves were singed, but 6' away at ground level raspberry canes, etc. were unscathed. A patch of grass 2' around the bottom suffered rather, outside this all was OK!
I took the trouble to remove turf from the grass, and what happened when I replaced it? The flippin' gardener piled a lot of garden debris on top, and burnt it!
|
"The flippin' gardener.."
That's the trouble these days - can't get the staff.. :-)
|
|
|
|
> something like this,:
You do not haf permission to access zis photo.!!!
Is it such a terrifying spectacle>??? :-))
Phil I
|
Thanks for your thoughts - the soil is pretty good so I'll risk it and spread it round a bit - fairly big veg patch.
My method is simple, put a bale of straw down - marinade with a liberal splash of diesel, wig wam of wood around, presto hey perfect bonny with one match lighting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Who chooses the VideoPlus numbers for TV programmes? There doesn't seem to be any pattern whatsoever.
--
L\'escargot.
|
Good question - I think a number of people have tried to break the code.
It obviously favours programmes in the early evening with a half-hour or hour duration.
I think any real answer would be difficult to publish as the code is probably proprietary
|
All I have noted is that popular progs have 4 figure numbers and the ones I like have 11 digit ones which I get wrong! Thread drift - how does it work anyway?
|
|
|
Have you never heard of Google?
It obviously would favour the popular times - part of the way it was designed. Popular channels/times = short codes. Anyone surprised? No.
I even quickly found a BASIC program to take a code and convert back into channel and time. Again Google. Okay there are other search engines.
|
Well Google is probably the answer to 90% of the questions posed here. I had hoped for a succinct explanation of how VidepPlus worked rather than a suggestion that I sit down and do my homework; I am a bit past being bossed about by schoolmasters but thanks anyway!
|
How VideoPlus works (TINYUrl is somewhat similar in the way it operates):
tinyurl.com/2yonno
tallyho.bc.nu/~steve/videoplus.html
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've just had a tooth extracted. The dental practice gave me comprehensive written instructions regarding what and when I can drink, but there's no mention of food ~ and I'm hungry! How soon can I eat?
--
L\'escargot.
|
Get yersel tucked into a good hot curry/chille con carne now, an by tommorrow you'll be crunchin walnuts with no problems!!
|
Chew on the other side! If it hurts have a couple of whiskys to dull the pain and to disinfect the wound!
Whisky is the best medecine.
Seriously, I had a tooth out recently and the dentist just said chew away from where the wound was and give the mouth a rinse with mouthwash and he did say that whisky was a good mouthwash if a dental one was not available.
--
Phil
|
|
|
|
SWMBO has informed me we need a Conservatory. In our travels and discussions with a variety of suppliers it became apparent we could have one of two types of base floor and wall.
The first is traditional concrete floor and a brick wall the other type being called Durabase. This is a steel mounted floor frame mounted on concrete pads suitably insulated, the walls are made of a faux brick outer cover (brick slip on cement particle board) with a galvanised inner wall assembly supporting the actual windows. I am informed this is the modern way forward, not any cheaper mind.
Has anyone any experience of this Durabase and would like to comment. Pros and cons.
Many thanks.
Peter
|
I wouldn't even consider it! stick with the traditional method. Durabase, whatever it is is probably a method to save the company money installing their product.
Walls made of faux (imitation) brick, ughh.
|
I would agree with mal. Tradition cavity wall with brickwork to match your existing.
150mm concrete floor ideal for tiling on.
Wall cavity gives easy acess for cabling to S/Os and a plaster finish to conceal cables up to the wall lights. The UPVC type also makes provision for cabling up to a ceiling fan with a standard bracket to take all types. (If you remember to ask them to fit it.)
To be honest this new method sounds a bit gimmickery.
wemyss
|
All you want to know, except the price!
www.durabase.co.uk/index.htm
Not for me, but advantages for difficult sites maybe worth considering.
--
pmh (was peter)
|
|
Couldn't resist a look at the link.........So it's a "prefab" conservatory, no surprise it goes up in one day, and you can sit them over manhole covers,............. it gets better!, you can move them easily,........... presumably when you have to inspect the drains.
|
|
|
|
Ordered some clothes a while ago from a large retailer based in America (taking advantage of the great exchange rate saved me about £80 over what it would have cost to buy the same here, even when you factor in the shipping cost).
I've just tracked it on usps, and it appears stuck in customs:
Detailed Results:
Into Foreign Customs, September 28, 2007, 8:14 am, GREAT BRITAIN
Arrived Abroad, September 28, 2007, 12:16 am, GREAT BRITAIN
International Dispatch, September 26, 2007, 10:39 am, LOS ANGELES
Processed, September 26, 2007, 10:34 am, LONG BEACH, CA 90810
Processed, September 25, 2007, 6:22 pm, CITY OF INDUSTRY, CA 91715
Acceptance, September 25, 2007, 6:08 pm, CITY OF INDUSTRY, CA 91715
I think we can safely assume that the people I've bought from will have filled in the right paperwork, so how long should it really take, even if they want to open it and check that my jumpers aren't laced with drugs or money?
Does anyone have any experience of this, and can give me a suggestion how much longer it's going to take? Is there no number I can call to chase customs along a bit?
Thanks!
|
Its the jumpers themselves, not what else *might* be in the package, that's probably causing the delay. How big was the order?
When my brother lived in Canada, Customs used to get rather upset at people day-tripping from Montreal or Toronto to the outlet malls in Buffalo, then carting suitcases full of clothes back to Canada. There was a 'crackdown' announced on the amounts of shopping people were allowed bring back into Ireland last Christmas too, although it applied to those considered to be importing more than could be for their own use - the only case reported to have been acted on involved someone with ?2000 worth of portable game consoles in their baggage...
As the parcel has only been in UK customs since Friday, I'd think - by their standards - its not even considered 'late' yet, so I'd give it a few days before you make any further inquiries.
|
Could they be waiting for their import duties and VAT?
|
The duties that will need to be paid are normally collected on delivery. Factor in the 17.5% VAT which you will probably pay and you're probably still saving. If you do not pay VAT you will be fortunate.
The fact it's got to customers suggests duty likely.
|
|
|
|
"Is there no number I can call to chase customs along a bit"
I'd leave it a bit. HMRC have more powers than any other agency including the police! They could probably enter our homes without a warrant if they wanted to!!!!
Seriously, you should be paying VAT on this delivery and you probably still will pay the full 17.5%. But you might not. Chase up HMRC and you almost certainly will pay duty on the lot.
|
|
It's the courier you should be chasing up - they've been paid to get the goods to you so they've still got half of the job to do.
|
It's two jumpers, a top, a jacket and a necklace, so not that big really. I'll try and be more patient!
You're right, I'm still saving, even if I have to pay VAT. Curious as to how that VAT will be collected though - will the courier have a chip and pin machine?
|
PG: will the courier have a chip and pin machine?
Doubtful. He'll probably want a crossed cheque payable to HM Customs.
|
Hmmm...according to the website, the parcel has been freed and delivery was attempted today. No card or anything left though - looks like I may be destined never to receive it!
BINGO - Posts reunited are us - PU
|
"Posts reunited"
If you can reunite PG with her post, we'll be seriously impressed.. :-)
|
|
|
I work from home a lot... get a parcel run downstairs and the guys nearly gone without posting a card or anything! Must be apathy or something.
Last week got a parcel delivered to next door as I was not in... I was but no doorbell or knock. Shocking.
But to really annoy me today... booked a car kit de-install as the new car due on 22nd Oct. Again you get couriered a piece of card with a ref number which I already know. So a van sent with a piece paper with something I do not actually need. System is there fore brackets and wiring looms but for a simple de-install. ??? Now the re-install will be more interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
It's a friends birthday soon and he is a fan of Geno Washington & his Ram Jam Band.
I have found this: -
Geno Geno Geno: Live in the 1960's [Box set] [Live]
CD No 5023224329523
I know he hasn't got a copy and it seems ideal.
I have Googled for an outlet with a copy of it but with no luck.
Can anyone give me any pointers to somewhere which may help, please?
|
If he has an iPod, you could buy the lot at:
tinyurl.com/2bcg2m
V
|
|
|
google "geno Washington" uk sites, look at the Amazon site (8th down list) they have quite a selection of his albums, inc the one you want, its towards the bottom of the first page.
hth
billy
|
Ahh!! sorry its on page 2, and its currently unavailable - Doh!, but theres plenty of others there to choose from!.
Sorry
billy
|
|
|
|
|
Any telephone engineers out there? My garage (small independent) has an old Panasonic 308 box that links up several phones to a couple of lines. It contains lots of relays that click in an out and upset the broadband connection on one of them. It's usually OK if no-one calls in, but there's no easy access (i.e. BT plug-in connection) north of the box. I imagine more filters are needed, but where to put them? This must be a common problem, but I suspect that the solution is a separate line...
Through visiting all the rooms in order I have managed to re-unite the question with the two answers...don't ask, the only problem now is to get PG's last post to link up with the rest of her questions and answers - PU
|
it's not usually recommended that a b/band line is used on a switch board i'm surprised it works at all.do you not have a dedicated fax line or burglar alarm line that you could have b/band put on?the filters only stop the white noise really so i don't think they will help as you are breaking up the signal.separate line or how about bt's feature line not trying to flog you anything juse a humble bt engineer.
|
"a humble bt engineer"
The very man. They do have a dedicated line for the MOT computer, but with strict instructions not to use it for anything else! All the others go through the Panasonic, I believe.
Not sure what bt's feature line is - assume some BB-friendly replacement for the board?
|
|
|
|
If I understand your set up correctly, you are saying that the line with BB on it goes into your Panasonic and you are then connecting the BB router/modem via a microfilter after.
Would suggest that the solution would be to do a bit of wiring to intercept the line before it goes into the Panasonic and provide yourself with an ADSL master socket which has a built in microfilter with an RJ45 outlet on the front for direct connection to your router and a normal, filtered, phone socket alongside; the rear of the front plate also has connections to take the filtered phone line onwards. This would give you an uninterrupted BB connection before the Panasonic.
Have a look here for what I'm talking about, will only cost £5-£10.
tinyurl.com/2egtqa
Strictly speaking these should be installed by BT as it is the first socket and I'm sure they would fit it for you, at a price, of course!!
|
"then connecting the BB router/modem via a microfilter after"
Sorry - by 'north of the box' I meant between the box and the incoming lines, which are all directly wired. There are BT sockets between the Panasonic and the phones, and the BB-enabled line has a filter to split the signal to the router. I thought there might need to be filters on the other lines if they were switched inside the box, but I can't claim to know much about what happens inside, and since it was designed long before ADSL, I can well imagine that it restricts the bandwidth, even when it isn't interrupting the signal.
Thanks for the link, BTW.
|
Do you really need the phone system?
I ask because a lot of these things were installed before the days of digital cordless phones, which have the facilities of a small PBX, with multiple handsets , and the ability to transfer calls between handsets.
By the way, I don't think BT would have any objection to Cockle's solution. That bit of the main socket is yours to do what you want with anyway. If you had engineer-installed ADSL you'd probably already have that type of faceplate. It's the part of the box that gets left behind on the wall when you remove the face plate that you're not supposed to tamper with.
|
|
Does the business have a fax line? Would be much easier, but I guess you would have mentioned it.
|
"Does the business have a fax line?"
It does, but I think it also goes through the box (so it can be used by the handsets). That would have been my preference, too!
|
|
|
|
"Do you really need the phone system?"
That is a good question. We have a 4-handset cordless system at home, and it works extremely well. If I can find a handset that will stand operation by an oil-soaked trainee mechanic, I think that might be an option!
|
|
|
|
|
|
The house was built 30 odd years ago, and it transpires that asbestos has been used to insulate it,and every time someone moves house they have to have specialists in to sort it out. Does anyone know of a recommend firm in Surrey, and had the job done, know what is a reasonable price.
What are /could be the implications if I just removed them and took them to the local dump, do they have facilities, or how would they know ??
|
You could take them out provided you didn't damage the asbestos.
There is a brilliant book by the HSE about risk assessments and method satatements for asbestos removal. It's about £10.
I could get my copy and quote you etc but the problem is that it needs to be read in full IMO to decide what RA and MS best suit your situation.
As far as taking it to the dump is concerned - Each LA has different rules. Some just allow you to take it there and put it in bonded skips, others need to be told in advance of type, quantity. Others may not even take it.
|
Ring the local council. They are supposed to have a designated tip which accepts 'domestic' asbestos - but plumbers, builders etc have to pay a disposal fee. Our local designated tip has a covered a covered skip in a different yard to the main tip and they request that the asbestos is in a sealed plastic wrapper/sack.
Firms which specialise in asbestos removal are very expensive according to the quotes we got.
|
|
|
|
|
I'm not sure that having it removed isn't more risky than leaving it where it is. AFAIK, asbestos is only a problem when being processed or hacked about. I don't think it's a hazard just sitting there, although I don't suppose that Health & Efficiency would agree...
|
www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Planning/Doi...2
Some info here, seems like common sense to me. Don't think that HMG is being too much of a
nanny with this stuff. I had a close neighbour die of asbestos related illness, he was exposed for a matter of days in the Navy.
|
"I had a close neighbour die of asbestos related illness"
I'm sorry to hear that, PU, but I imagine that his exposure involved working with the stuff, or near people who were. The link you provide seems pretty level-headed, and does state that: "undisturbed asbestos usually poses no problems", which is really the point I was trying to make.
The tragedy in all this is that the companies who made asbestos (like T&N) knew about the health risks before the war, but denied it for decades.
|
|
|
|
Whas sort of "insulation" is it? Hardish, or very soft (unlikely)? Is it just doors, or other stuff too? Are you sure it's asbestos - has a sample been sent for analysis?
It's unlikely to be a problem, except when you move house, as you said...
You can take many asbestos-containing items to a "Tidy Tip" if it has a facility to deal with the stuff. This will be of use to you:
www.surreyheath.gov.uk/services/list.htm?mode=8&pk...8
|
|
|
|
Is it grammatically correct to say "Fred and me are ......." or "Fred and I are ......."? Or what?
--
L\'escargot.
|
|
I think "Fred and me are....." would be considered correct nowadays, but not by the older generation.
|
Yet "Me and Fred.." sounds fine.....
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
Yet "Me and Fred.." sounds fine.....
Just can't get my tongue around that one!
|
Totally wrong. It should be Fred and I are going to the cinema.
Would you say "me am going to the cinema"?
|
I'd rather take Ginger. Especially if we were to sit at the back.
www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar...l
|
|
|
There is no right way to say it. It depends on whether Fred and you are the subject or the object of the sentence's verb.
The simplest way to check is to remove Fred from the sentence.
"Fred and I ate a dinosaur" becomes, "I ate a dinosaur." Sounds right, so the original is right.
"Fred and me ate a dinosaur" becomes, "Me ate a dinosaur." Noooooo.
Whereas:
"A dinosaur ate Fred and I" becomes, "A dinosaur ate I." Possibly acceptable in the West Country, but not in polite company.
"A dinosaur ate Fred and me" becomes, "A dinosaur ate me." An unfortunate, but grammatical, end.
Hope that helps.
The difficulty arises with the verb "to be", as (strictly speaking) that doesn't have an object, only a subject. All summed up nicely in the joke:
There's a knock on the gates of heaven. St. Peter calls out, "Who's there?"
Comes the reply, "It is I".
"Get stuffed," shouts St. Peter, "We've got enough English graduates in here".
V
|
There is no right way to say it. It depends on whether Fred and you are the subject or the object of the sentence's verb.
The example given by the snail was "Fred and me are" which indicates Fred and me as the subject of the sentence. The verb to be always takes the nominative case.
|
"The example given by the snail was "Fred and me are" which indicates Fred and me as the subject of the sentence."
I disagree. "Fred and Me are...English" would be incorrect, IMHO. If Fred were taken away, nothing on Earth would make me say "Me am English".
V
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/10/2007 at 20:24
|
"The example given by the snail was "Fred and me are" which indicates Fred and me as the subject of the sentence." I disagree. "Fred and Me are...English" would be incorrect IMHO. If Fred were taken away nothing on Earth would make me say "Me am English".
Exactly. If you had read my reply properly, with reference to the Snail's original question, you should have realised that he was using "Fred and me" as the subject of the sentence. I posted subsequently that it should be Fred and I.
|
|
|
>>Just can't get my tongue around that one!>>
Simple.
You wouldn't say: "I and Fred", but you could say: "Fred and I".
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
|
|
|
Is it grammatically correct to say "Fred and me are ......." or "Fred and I are ......."? Or what?
I was always told if the singular of the sentence is "I", then it would be "Fred and I". If the singular of the sentence is "Me", then it would be "Me and Fred"
----------------------------------------------
Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
|
I remember a speech by "Her Maj" in which she said "My Husband and I blah blah", if "She" can't speak the Queens English who can!.
Billy
|
If Fred and I are the subjects of the sentence then it would be 'Fred and I went to...'.
If we are the objects though, it would be 'Lewis Hamilton congratulated Fred and me on...'
'Fred and me went..' or similar is often heard, but is incorrect. Nothing to do with age either.
|
"If we are the objects though, it would be 'Lewis Hamilton congratulated Fred and me on...'"
Unless the verb was "to be", in which case you'd say, for example:
"The winners are Fred and I". and, yes, before you ask, it would be "The winner is I", though that would be using correct grammar to the degree where one begins to sound rather stupid. Grammar does move on, whether one likes it or not.
V
|
>>>Grammar does move on whether one likes it or not.
It certainly does. My knuckles would almost certainly have come into contact with the sharp side of a 12" ruler had I have written 'Fred and me....' in my weekly essay while at school. Nowadays, though, I doubt if marks would be lost.
Still don't like it!
|
|
"As long as the word myself is nowhere near"....said he in a low threatening voice
|
|
|
My knuckles would almost certainly have come into contact with the sharp side of a 12" ruler ........
I have scars on my knuckles from being hit with the edge of a 12" wooden rule (sorry Clk Sec, but rulers are kings etc.), a scar on my forehead from failing to dodge a well-aimed blackboard rubber, and a cauliflower ear from having it twisted by a teacher. But I will never complain because it resulted in me paying attention at school and receiving a worthwhile standard of education. Furthermore, as evidence that I knew my place, I readily accepted the title of pupil and didn't (unlike current schoolchildren) demand to be referred to as a student!
--
L\'escargot.
|
wooden rule (sorry Clk Sec but rulers are kings etc.)
Absolutely right, L?escargot, but these measuring devices were actually referred to as rulers when I was at school.
|
|
|
|
|
"The winner is I" though that would be using correct grammar to the degree where one begins to sound rather stupid. Grammar does move on whether one likes it or not.
That is a rather clumsy construction. Better to say " I am the winner."
|
|
Or just use an English variant of the sort widely spoken in some of the more amusing ex-colonies and say: Me win the thing!
|
Oh Dear (can't believe I'm about to say this) but closer to home
"Myself has won that"
|
Vin in your first post you say there is no right way and then go on to describe exactly the right way.
Fred and I went to the cinema. John went to the cinema with Fred and me. There is no other way.
Is Fowler's on-line?
|
|
|
|
|
|
I was always told if the singular of the sentence is "I" then it would be "Fred and I". If the singular of the sentence is "Me" then it would be "Me and Fred"
Exactly Sim-O. Irritates me no end when someone's showing you their holiday snaps and says "Oh there's Fred and I on the beach". They're only trying (too hard) to be grammatically correct, but they don't seem to understand that "me" is an objective pronoun, and "I" is a subjective pronoun. Mind you, most people don't seem to know what a noun/verb/adjective is anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
My friends consider me to be unusual (peculiar, even!) in that I pay the same attention to grammatical correctness in my text messages as I do in any other form of communication. However, very few messages I compose exceed the length limit for one unit of cost, and those that do I usually edit to bring them within the limit. The difference in "typing" time between a grammatically correct message and a sloppy one is minimal. Why, therefore, do most people resort to sloppy composition in their text messages? Don't they have any standards at all?
--
L\'escargot.
|
|
L'escargot lights blue touch paper and stands well back........
|
d'uh innit !
--
L\'escargot.
|
|
|
|
