As a vendor I would certainyl adopt this tactic as it is likely to result in a faster sale and potentially a little more money. Indeed I have done so in the past.
As a purchaser I would use that situation as part of my buy/no buy decision. If I felt I could be quicker it wouldn't worry me. If I felt I couldn't be quicker then I might not bother. Either way I would reduce my offer to that of the other party.
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and, although our offer is the highest, the vendor has accepted both. I get the impression that when the time comes the estate agent for the vendor will expect us to have a race to exchange contracts. Is this normal and accepted practice, and would you take part in such a race? Is there any way round this? I reckon that if we lost the race it could cost us anything up to £2000.
How can he accept both? A contract race is not normal or good, and if it were me, I'd state to the vendor in simple terms that my offer was just that, if he wants a lower amount sell to the other person. I would also make rude remarks about the estate agent in question, and the vendor for (apparently) going along with such a slimy tactic.
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How can he accept both?
Well he can't but then its nto really "acceptance" in the true definition anyway.
>>A contract race is not normal
It may or may not be "normal" but its pretty frequent.
or good,
Depends if you're buying or selling
and if it were me, I'd state to the vendor in simple terms that my offer was just that,
Now that rather depends on how much you want the house. Or would you really walk away from a house that you love and will live in for years because the vendor might annoy you over a couple of week period ? nose, face, cut, spite.
would also make rude remarks about the estate agent in question,
Why ? It wasn;t his decision ?
with such a slimy tactic.
Slimy in what way ?
Ever sold a house ?? Did you try to get the hgihest price or the quickest completion ? Are you telling me that you wouldn't set two buyers against each other if you felt it would get you more money ? I don't believe you.
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>> How can he accept both? Well he can't but then its nto really "acceptance" in the true definition anyway.
Of course it is not. I did not say it was either.
>>A contract race is not normal It may or may not be "normal" but its pretty frequent.
It happens in a small minority of sales.
>> or good, Depends if you're buying or selling
In either case it can cause problems. As a buyer, I would not participate in a contract race. As a seller, I would not try it on.
>> and if it were me, I'd state to the vendor in simple terms that my offer was just that, Now that rather depends on how much you want the house. Or would you really walk away from a house that you love and will live in for years because the vendor might annoy you over a couple of week period ? nose, face, cut, spite.
Of course there are exceptions.
>> would also make rude remarks about the estate agent in question, Why ? It wasn;t his decision ?
You don't know estate agents or selling if you say this is the sole decision of the vendor.
>> with such a slimy tactic. Slimy in what way ?
S L I M Y.
Ever sold a house ??
A few times.
Did you try to get the hgihest price or the quickest completion ?
One needs to achieve a balance, as you ought to be aware. A contract race is not the only way of getting the best price, and is far from the best.
Are you telling me that you wouldn't set two buyers against each other if you felt it would get you more money ? I don't believe you.
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[sigh]
> >> >> How can he accept both? >> Well he can't but then its nto really "acceptance" in the true definition anyway. Of course it is not. I did not say it was either.
No, you asked a question. To which a frequent response is an answer.
>> >>A contract race is not normal >> It may or may not be "normal" but its pretty frequent. It happens in a small minority of sales.
You are bluffing. You have no idea if you are right or not. In my experience you would be wrong.
As a buyer, I would not participate in a contract race. As a seller, I would not try it on.
Inexplicably the original poster asked for your opinions. Try offering them and leaving mine alone.
>> Now that rather depends on how much you want the house. Or would you really walk away from a house that... Of course there are exceptions.
That was exactly my point, hence the use of the work "depends".
One needs to achieve a balance, as you ought to be aware. A contract race is not the only way of getting the best price, and is far from the best.
Stuff the balance. I want the most money and the quickest time. If a race will achieve that for me, or I believe it will, then it is a tactic I would use. Please try and retain a grip on the word "if" since if I did not feel it was the best way , then I wouldn't do it.
However, since you concede both exceptions and balance, I extrapolate from that the idea that you could live with it as a buyer if you wanted the house enough, and would try it as a vendor if you felt it the best way in a given circumstance.
I suspect that is the type of response best suited to your abilities. Try reading, understanding and thinking since you may well find that it enhances your experience over and above what you have obviously tried over the last few years.
However, if you are seriously saying that you would walk away from a house you loved sufficiently over this, or you would forgoe an additional sum of money rather than do it, then I stand by my opinion - you are a liar.
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You are bluffing.
If you want to play stupid games, that's up to you - but you're on your own.
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>> You are bluffing. If you want to play stupid games, that's up to you but you're on your own.
Not a game, just a bit more polite than saying that either you know nothing or you are talking our of your backside on a subject about which you clearly have either thought little or know nothing. And, as everybody knows, I always try to be polite.
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We've moved house quite frequently but have never encountered this before. If it was me I'd take a walk in the opposite direction.
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We've moved house quite frequently but have never encountered this before. If it was me I'd take a walk in the opposite direction.
Hear, hear, but I'd first give them the opportunity to sell to me, bearing in mind I offered a higher price anyway, and the vendor may have been misled. If no joy, walk, telling them why!
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Perhaps inform the agent that you are not happy about incurring costs on the basis that another party is in the frame though you will not withdraw your higher offer as long as the seller agrees to reimburse any (reasonable) costs you have incurred if they proceed with the other other party. You would probably have liitle chance of getting anything out of them in such circumstances though it is not walking away, it leaves the door open (scuse the pun!) and might focus the seller's mind.
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I get the impression that.... will expect us to have a race to exchange contracts. Is this normal and accepted practice, and would you take part in such a race? Is there any way round this? I reckon that if we lost the race it could cost us anything up to £2000.
if i have formed the wrong impression, please ignore this post, but the impression i have is that l'escargot likes to take his time (hence his name?) and is a pretty cautious fellow. in which case this kind of race may not be one for his character (even though the tortoise may have won against the hare, i doubt if a snail will beat the tortoise ! :: ;-) :: ).
1. so whether it is normal or not, enter the race only if you are comfortable with the whole process.
2. you could speed up the process and try to win, for example by getting a bridging loan pending the sale of your current house.
3. weigh up the potential loss against the potential gain, how badly you want this house, and whether you think house prices are rising at a rate which means your next "i want this" house moment will cost you a lot more than this current "i want this" one.
iirc, it has taken 2 years or so for you to get to "i want this" bungalow.
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My take on this would be:
Call the vendor directly and ask them what they are trying to achieve. Is it a guaranteed sale, or a quick sale, or best price (apparently not in this case)? Then see what it would take to reassure them that you are going to help them achieve what they want. Point out that one possible outcome (if, say, they want speed) is that if you feel you're dropping behind in the race you'll likely cut your losses and drop the purchase - then they'll be left with the lower price AND no pressure on the other party to rush.
If you find out what's driving their behaviour, you'll be able to come up with a solution that suits them, I'll bet.
V
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if i have formed the wrong impression, please ignore this post, but the impression i have is that l'escargot likes to take his time
Not at all. I would be happy to proceed as fast as is humanly possible. But the time taken for me to complete would depend on my surveyor, my solicitor, and my buyer and his solicitor etc. In other words it would to a out of my control to a great extent. If I agreed to a race I could be flogging a dead horse.
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L\'escargot.
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l'escargot ........ (hence his name?)
Dalglish,
If you really want to know, it was a nickname given to me during one period of my life by friends who watched too much "Magic Roundabout", and it appealed to my whimsical nature to use it here. Originally it was "L'escargot by name but not by nature" but I shortened it because I thought that was too ostentatious.
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L\'escargot.
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Both us and another couple have made offers for a bungalow and, although our offer is the highest, the vendor has accepted both.
That's appalling behaviour. I wouldn't begin to open negotiations with a seller who employed such a disgusting tactic. "Accepting" two offers is a quirk of the UK property industry that you just can't do elsewhere. If a vendor is prepared to do this to you, how else are they going to screw you? Someone is going to lose out and 50/50 it's going to be you. Walk away and find a seller with some concept of moral decency.
If an offer is "accepted" it should be concrete and any party backing out should be responsible for the costs of the other party/parties involved. The law surrounding property transactions in this country is far too lax. Unfortunately, over here, the concept of making and accepting an offer means nothing - it relies solely on the scruples of those involved. This vendor has none.
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"That's appalling behaviour. I wouldn't begin to open negotiations with a seller who employed such a disgusting tactic. "
The problem you have here, though, is that this is a house L'escargot wants. Probably a great deal, if he's got to offer stage. Backing out now would be letting emotional responses guide an important decision.
The other person is behaving rationally. They must have a good reason for doing what they are doing. (even Hitler was behaving rationally, given his beliefs). What will it cost to give them a call to find out what the reason is? It MIGHT be that they have tried to sell before and been let down, possibly at huge cost. It might be that they need to move within a given period of time. It might be they are in dire need of the money for a life-saving operation. Without speaking to them, you're never going to find out what's driving them. Getting on your high horse and flouncing off into the sunset isn't going to resolve matters either for them or for you. Getting into a contract race is a gamble., and may well not resolve matters to your satisfaction. I hereby bet £5 that if you speak to them, there'll be a rational (and resolvable) reason for the race. I note, by the way, that your OP says only that you have a suspicion this may end up as a race. £5 to Help the Aged (I'll be old one day!) if I'm wrong and they are just being bloody minded.
V
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What will it cost to give them a call to find out what the reason is?
This is quite often not possible because estate agents do not divulge things like the vendors telephone number. In this instance, although I have found out the telephone number of the property via the directory, the vendors are living at another property they own.
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L\'escargot.
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I hereby bet £5 that if you speak to them, there'll be a rational (and resolvable) reason for the race. I note, by the way, that your OP says only that you have a suspicion this may end up as a race.
It was their estate agent that implied that this would/could be the case, and I think it will be their policies that dictate this kind of thing. Don't forget that when you sell a house through an agent you are putting the sale in their hands.
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L\'escargot.
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Accepting" two offers is a quirk of the UK property industry that you just can't do elsewhere
this is not the case in Scotland ,if an offer is accepted here it is legally binding .I put an offer in on a house 2 weeks ago before survey so no costs involved but the offer stated subject to survey and I negotiated an ajustment for a small problem that I never noticed that the survey brought to light ,however the downside here is guessing what the price will be as property can be anything up to 40% over the asking price which is just a gamble
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Unfortunately, over here, the concept of making and accepting an offer means nothing - it relies solely on the scruples of those involved. This vendor has none.
I'm sure the vendors are merely following the advice of their estate agent. Any enmity I have over this aspect is towards the agent, not the vendors.
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L\'escargot.
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I have bought precisly Two houses. Buying the first one I entered into a contract race. As a first time buyer with a confirmed mortgage I won. So where I live and with my experience contract races are pretty common.
On the other hand I helped someone else move. Saw house, made offer, Estate agent then said someone else was after it and could move quickly.
Response from us was Ok thats fine, let them have it. Funny thing was the other offer didnt appear, how strange.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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As a first time buyer with a confirmed mortgage I won.
How did you persuade your solicitor etc to act swiftly? I can sign pieces of paper at the drop of a hat, but how do I make all the other parties accept the need for speed and give priority to my case?
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L\'escargot.
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Perhaps stating the obvious, but make sure you instruct a real, proper solicitor, and preferably one that doesn't use a computerised conveyancing management system.
In my recent move (not a contract race), the vendors used a local firm with a management system that was the cause of a few days delay (not sure how, but that's what I was told).
I felt that my solicitor (one of the partners) really did work well for me. I think the fact I went in and met him prior to instructing the firm helped a lot too. I work just round the corner from their offices so could also cut out the need for a day's post each way by picking up and dropping off various documents. You could also find out about doing the local search yourself as this is where a lot of delays can occur.
I'm not sure if you need a mortgage, but I was told that the Woolwich (and associated companies) are dreadfully slow with their admin (and that has been my experience with two applications to them). This time I went with Alliance & Leicester via an independent broker who were very efficient.
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One detail if you do get into a contract race. Tell your solicitor you will pay the exra for every document to go via Special Delivery rather than by DX post, which is the solicitors own postal system. Cheaper, but not as quick. Impress on them the need for speed.
Another way to go is tell the vendor you'll drop the price to the other offer, then offer your solicitor the extra cash provided you win the race. That'll get them to pull their fingers out.
I knew someone years ago who looked at a (admittedly empty) house on a Tuesday and completed on a Friday. It was about 1985 or so, and he just told the solicitor to send people to (for example) send a clerk down to the registry to submit a search and wait at the place till they got the result. Cost him more, but got the job done.
I still reckon that you should ask the estate agent to pass on your request for a direct chat with the vendor. Point out that they will get less commission if the other person wins. That will concentrate their nasty little minds.
V
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Where was I missed this one ?!
Contract races are an undesirable side effect of the current housing market. If you want that house you'll have to race simple as that. From the seller's perspective they might be in a race of sorts for their new property. The decision to race is down to the seller not the Estate Agent (unless prompted by them) or even by the Solicitor if it's got to that stage. This how things are in the real world these days, distasteful but not illegal.
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Totally agree with "Angry Johny". have actually been in this position some years back. I withdrew from the sale and the deal with the rival buyer then fell through. Estate agent actually then approached me to see if I was still interested! I had by then found nother property with seller who had some standards. Just walk away. Problem is in getting emotionally attached to house before its yours but there's always somethning else out there
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I had a buyer (for whom I was doing a favour) actually end up paying a couple of grand in hard cash to ensure they got the property, not illegal that either but very very tasteless.
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