Finally managed to listen to the Y&Y clip. The Director of Motor Risks Pricing from the ABI singles out the S-Max as a model that will do better under the new system - 18 out of 50 rather than 11 out of 20 today. Curious, given that weight is now an important consideration - damage caused in a collision etc - and it weighs 1,700kg. Anyway, since I'm considering buying one, and I'd already concluded that it will cost less to insure than my S60 D5, this feels like good news to me.
The ABI man was at pains to say that weight and type of vehicle will still only be one factor, and that the driver's record and where the vehicle is kept will have an effect too.
They got one rural Warwickshire builder with a Land Rover on the phone to protest and another listener's email was read out, both saying that the insurance industry was just looking for a soft target, but I find it hard to see it as anything but an actuarial calculation - the insurers have found a way to take more factors into account, so they will. In the headline-grabbing case of 4x4s, remember that the present system dates from the 1980s, when farm vehicles were used on, er, farms. Since they became fashion accessories for some, it's hardly surprising if insurers have noticed some effect on the claims they have to handle.
On the specific point of weight - or rather, mass - this is, consciously or otherwise, many people's reason for choosing a 4x4 as family transport: that it's likely to cause more damage to what it hits than to itself in a collision. (This isn't, incidentally, necessarily the same as making it safer for its own occupants, although that's the common perception.) There's also the fact that a more massive vehicle takes more turning or stopping than a lighter one, so is less able to avoid a collision in the first place.
Given that there's now 10-15 years of claims data (on 4x4s as everyday transport) to work with, it seems perfectly sensible for the insurers to use it in assessing risk, and hence premiums. As for soft targets, you have only to watch a complete Countdown to realize that every insurer is desperate to attract new business by being cheaper than everyone else, and to do that they need a full and accurate picture of their risks. This new system to me seems like no more than a routine adjustment to take account of changes in the motoring environment; I see nothing sinister in that.
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Bumpers - why on why can't manufacturers go back to black rubber ones that don't scratch when they are touched and offer some decent protection? I know that they like having colour coded bits and no rubbing strips down the side so that they look "better" but there should only be a certain amount of form over function.
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I think the bumper issue is to do with the silly pedestrian protection that cars must have, notice how Audis and Peugeots dont actually have bumpers anymore, some of this is down to styling but I think some is also down to the pedestrian protection legislation....
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Hi,
Does anyone have any views, opinions or concerns on how the changes to insurance gropus will affect high performance 4x4 such as the Subaru Imprezza??
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They come out OK, a little below what should be the average 2.5x multiplier.
www.abi.org.uk/carinsurance/search.asp
We have some small group 3 cars in our family, and they've changed in a range from 5 to 14 (14 being the Jazz).
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For some reason i cannot get this link to work. Any idea what group my 2003 Toyota Rav4 D4d will be in?
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No idea, but it's hardly a 4x4 in the sense we're discussing here and isn't a particularly heavy vehicle.. One factor the ABI mentions is the way rapid acceleration gives drivers more scope to get themselves into trouble, and the Impreza certainly qualifies there - especially with its tendency to appeal to the type of driver who'd happily swap his brain for a baseball cap and some extra testosterone.
My (strictly layman's) reading between the lines of the ABI's plans is that balls-out high-performance cars are already recognized as a high risk, but that there's a growing number of modestly-priced diesel family cars, now filtering into the second-user market, that can deliver mid-range acceleration comparable to supercars of a generation ago. This can be a good thing for a sensible driver - I have one and I love the way it drives - but I infer that the ABI's data is telling it that these cars cost them more in claims than family cars used to and that the new ratings will reflect this.
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Thanks BP - useful link.
I think this proves my suspicion about half right - if you look for the vehicles in the new Group 50, all but one are in the old Group 20, and that's in 19. But I'm having trouble finding a family diesel that's gone up by more than a factor of 2.5 - anyone spotted one?
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"sporty diesels"
Oh no, I've only had my Berlingo HDi for a year and they are going to increase the insurance??? Tell me it ain't so.
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Phil
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Sorry Phil, it's going from group 5 to group 14 or 15.... actually one of the bigger jumps (3x multiplier).
Compare that to the Seat Leon FR - group 12 to group 24 - 2x multiplier. So yeah, it's clearly punishment for those Berlingo-owning boy racers/wannabe white van men.
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Any idea what group my Toyota Rav4 2L D4D 2003 will be in?
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I though this possibly interesting thread had fizzled out before it even started.
I can see why they made the change, I completely agree with the increase actuarial data and change in car characteristics. However, I was surprised to find the skoda fabia vrs (230lbs of mid range torque in a supermini!) and quite a porky one at that only goes from old grp 9 to new grp 18. I am especially surprised as a *few* people have put these on their roof. Yet my 1.6 petrol Mazda that isn't even remotely fast and weighs about the same jumps from 5 to 14. what? Seems like at least the sensible mazda, jazz and berlingo drivers will be looking at ioncreases. :-(
Edited by Webmaster on 26/10/2007 at 01:48
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So much for "Sporty Diesels" shooting up - Mondeo ST TDCi goes from 13 to 27, so it has actually gone down in relative terms.
I suspect this has been done because there are now an awful lot of group 20 cars.
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Surely not David?
I was joking since I couldn't imagine a Berlingo being hit! After all, it's only a diesel van with windows! Not 4x4 or sporty diesel and usually driven, (from observation of other drivers of Berlingos, but not me obviously) by grey haired old gits, and usually bearded, who drive very carefully. How do they justify the increase? I'd better look at the website I guess.
If they are going to treat me as a boy racer, I'd better get a beancan exhaust, one of those big spoilers on the roof and get the suspension lowered.
Anyone got any side skirts for a (beige, now that's a boy racer colour) Berlingo?
Good job I've got fog lights, must learn how to switch them on, or perhaps I could wire them up to come on when I turn the ignition.
Those blue light things on windscreen washers - where to buy? Come on guys, I need help, I'm a gas -guzzling boy racer and never realised, blimey, 50mpg and I'm a gas - guzzler, 92bhp and I'm a boy racer.
I just hope all you posers in 911s, Focus STs, MB Slks, bloomin' great Discos, Shoguns etc are suitably envious of my new status.
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Phil
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"usually bearded"
That referred to the women Berlingo drivers, in case any of you were confused.
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Phil
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"usually bearded" That referred to the women Berlingo drivers, in case any of you were confused.
Better not let SWMBO see that as she's the reg keeper of ours! ( the Xantia is in my name)
Oddly the pre 2005 diesel Berlingos, whether the 1868cc IDI or 1997cc HDi 90 go from old group 5 to new 11. Post 05 1.6Hdi versions whether 75 or 92 PS go from 5 to 14.
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It seems to have spread out the smaller cars more than anything else. Most group 20 cars have simply jumped to 50.
We have three group 3 cars - our Ibiza has 'jumped' to 5 (you'd have thought a youngsters car would be hit hard), the Colt to 12, and, most surprisingly, the Jazz to 14!! I'll be speaking to Honda if that's has a significant effect on the premium.
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BMW 320d M Sport goes from 14 to 26 so a relative fall, my descent into debt may be continuing
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