Hi all,
I've just got a new job & am looking to change my car. I have a Golf mk4 GTi, 1.8 turbo, chipped to 190BHP. I absolutely love the car and find it fast & nice to drive (despite what others say about it on this board!). I now want to buy something that will be in the next level up of performance, and want some prestige with it too (sad I know) which means not having something too old unless it's pretty special. The cars I've thought about are:
BMW M3 E46 ('01 ish) -- worried about losing value now new shape is due
BMW Z4 ('03) --
A4 Conv 3.0 / 3.0 quat ('02-'03) -- doesn't look that fast on paper (7.6s 0-60)
Boxter S ('00 ish) --
Other considerations (where running costs scare me):
Maseratti 3200 ('99 ish)
Merc CL500 ('01 ish)
BMW M5 ('01 ish)
Has anyone got any feedback? Am I right to be scared of the running costs of the cars in the last group? I can spend arround 800-1000 a year on servicing / repairs / parts
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Might be worth checking insurance costs on the last 3 too.
SAAB aero?
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Go further back and very carefully seek out a peach of a car pre-dating the electronic and other complications that characterize everything from the late 90s onwards. Once you've narrowed the choice down to a particular marque, join the owners club and get fully clued up on strengths and weaknesses of particular models. Take your time.
Spend a couple of hundred on the services of a specialist in the marque to check out and report in detail on your chosen car before you buy it. Pick the right car and you'll have a truly reliable classic on your hands with lower maintenance costs than more modern cars and, with luck, you might catch it at the bottom of its depreciation curve.
Your servicing can be done very competently by independents at half the main-dealer rates; anything that does go wrong is likely to be relatively simple to fix and not requiring dealer computer diagnostic systems (good car-club research will make you aware of what's likely to go wrong anyway). It's those hourly rates that really rack up the maintenance costs.
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Don't regard much of the first list as having much prestige apart from maybe the Boxster. You'd be in a good 964 for 18K with very low depreciation & much higher performance. The second list are going to have very scary running costs !
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I have an E46 M3 which I use as my every day transport. I don't know what mileage you do but the 30,000km service is very expensive (valves need adjusting). Also tyres are will possibly break the bank, especially if they're 19", and it's not very economical round town. Having said that it's a phenomenal car to drive, performance, handling and braking are in a different class to anything else this side of a Porsche 996. I've had mine 2 1/2 years and never got bored of it. It also has the practical advantage of usable back seats and boot space compared to a Z4 or Porsche.
If you do decide on one, make sure it had the recall work done (around September 2003) which involved having the main bearings swapped and the oil pump upgraded.
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Jag XK8 or supercharged XKR without any doubt. You'll love it. Just bag a good one. Huge boot, very comfortable, excllent cabin and now extrememely good value for money.
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I fail to see why a good Subaru 3.0litre Legacy is not good enough! 245bhp, unbreakable mechanicals and sleeper when it comes to the scrotes.
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Get the Spec B. All the toys and sharper handling with more power.
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How about an early 90s Merc S class 2-door coupe?
Big V8 performance, all the toys and built like a tank, usually for 10K or less
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Some basic questions to ask yourself first:
- Where are you commuting to? What kind of roads and traffic will you meet? How many miles a year will you cover? If you're going to be in stop-start traffic, for example, that Audi cabrio with an auto starts to look good. Your pocket would thank you for a BMW 330D if you're on a long motorway run regularly.
- Where will you keep it? Have you secure parking at home? At work? An M3 parked at the kerb attracts attention. An unbadged Legacy Spec B doesn't, so you don't spend your day worrying about it.
- Will you ever need to carry passengers? Luggage? Flat packs from B&Q? If you don't travel light, a Boxster isn't the car for you.
- If you're spending £18,000 on a car, can you finance it in such a way that if the job doesn't work out, you can sell it/cancel the lease/cover the payments without too much financial pain?
Then, with the practicalities addressed, draw up a shortlist and pick from it using your heart, not your head. A speedy prestigious car isn't a practical purchase, so make sure you get something you'll love to drive!
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A 330d would be logical choice as said above. Beatifully involving, economic and the best diesel engine money can buy. A more sensible buy again would be a 530d. Far less negativity from other people. 18k would get you into the latest shape from a dealer. This engine has got to be experienced to be believed. My 330d would pull from 15mph to very fast in 4th gear with no effort. Dealer warranties are best !
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Thanks for this it is very sensible advice. My journey will be up the Finchley Road and then the first 8 junctions of the M1 so not very busy and mainly very fast. As such I don't feel the need for an auto. Having done some more research it now seems clear that as a general rule any cars in group 20 are right out due to the servicing costs for high performance engines (a BMW garage quoted me 1300 for an inspection 2 on an M3!!!), so I'm thinking now more along the lines of something that's a good step up from my golf GTi in performance and has got the image i'm after too (sad as it seems to some). I'm 27 so the Z4 3.0i is a good fit and as I could get a 3 year old one which would hopefully be reliable. Although the 90s cars such as Merc SLs and E coupes are obviously very sensible, they haven't got the image I'm after.... I love the new 3 series too but it would be a good 18 months until it comes into my price range with the engine I'm after (200bhp+).
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a BMW garage quoted me 1300 for an inspection 2 on an M3!!!
That's ridiculous. I live in Munich and paid 650 Euros for the Inspection 2 at the main dealer here. This included chauffeur service to and from the airport and my car being completely valeted and I thought that was expensive.
has got the image i'm after too
I'm struggling a bit with the image thing. If you're after something that makes you look rich and famous, and based on what the seriously rich people I know use as their daily transport, I would suggest either a Mercedes W124 without alloys, a Land Rover whose vintage probably dates from around the time of the Norman Conquest or a Toyota Prius.;-)
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Apparantly every other inspection on the M3 requires the valve clearances to be adjusted which is 475 + VAT alone not including the service. What a supprise that the price for a job to be done is 3 times higher in UK than in Europe. I somehow can't imagine Stanmore BMW taking me anywhere by chauffer either although Ford in Norwich did give me a lift home in a minibus once which I thought was nice of them.
Your comments about looking rich are very true - I live in a very afluant area and the favored cars are Audi Audi A4 convertibles, Toyota Priuses, and anything that was built to last about 15-20 years ago - there's a school of thought that says that these people are rich that because they're sensible with money. By this logic though I'd have a cheap haircut, potter arround in a Barbour jacket, courderoy trousers and brown brogues.
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By this logic though I'd have a cheap haircut, potter arround in a Barbour jacket, courderoy trousers and brown brogues.
Sounds like you've met me;-)
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Apparantly every other inspection on the M3 requires the valve clearances to be adjusted which is 475 VAT alone not including the service. What a supprise that the price for a job to be done is 3 times higher in UK than in Europe. I somehow can't imagine Stanmore BMW taking me anywhere by chauffer either although Ford in Norwich did give me a lift home in a minibus once which I thought was nice of them.
try a provincial garage, they're much cheaper.........I bought my car in Watford, had a service there, then tried a garage in Hendon, before deciding that was much too expensive
next time and ever since i've had a weekend away with friends in Plymouth every time the car needs a service
costs me about the same in reality, but i don't feel i'm unnecessarily lining a garage's pocket & get a weekend away
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A legacy is a good car but it has no prestige
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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A legacy is a good car but it has no prestige
Thank the Lord for that!
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">speed & prestige needed <"
if you're young, BMW of some description. If you have matured then a Jag.
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With only £800-1K to spend annually on repairs; then forget any of you original list. 2 tyres and a small service and that's gone. With their dealers, you'd will need £5-8K annually to feel safe.
Roger's got the right idea. Car's reached a quality peak in the mid 90's - particularly German cars. Pick something with real "Wow" factor that's not dripping with tacky [and wearing] gadgets and you'll not lose too much in depreciation.
Or go totally mad and get an Integrale or something of that ilk. You've got the budget for speed, prestige - and a bit of all-time class too.
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MG ZT V8
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I looked into these briefly - it has to be the best amount of kit and performance in an almost new car for 15k - but sadly doesn't have the image thath MG managed to secure for the TF, obviously due to it essentuially being a Rover 75
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Audi RS4, S6, S8
Mercedes C32 AMG
Jaguar V8 4.0 XJR Supercharged
or, just a little different, a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII
Andy
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Evo?
Since when is doing car park doughnuts associated with prestige?
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Evo? Since when is doing car park doughnuts associated with prestige?
Doughnuts in a 4wd?
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best amount of kit and performance in an almost new car for 15k - but sadly doesn't have the image thath MG managed to secure for the TF, obviously due to it essentuially being a Rover 75
TF? Image?
What are they putting in the water in Primrose Hill perleman?
Speed is real. Prestige is imaginary.
And what on earth is wrong with say an Alfa 166? You could get two or three for your budget.
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The TF has more image than the ZS or ZR. It was a credible budget English sports car on launch in my mind and I seem to remember there was a buzz around it from MG enthusiasts at the time. I thought about it (briefly) when I bought the Golf
If I'm off the mark then maybe Lud is right and some of the special celebrity 'party powder' is in the water here. Talking about Alfas the GT looks pretty tasty...
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I looked into these briefly - it has to be the best amount of kit and performance in an almost new car for 15k - but sadly doesn't have the image thath MG managed to secure for the TF, obviously due to it essentuially being a Rover 75
You should do yourself a favour and test drive one. Whilst it's based on the 75 (which was acclaimed in its own right), they spent serious money in changing it to rear wheel drive and dropping a 4.6l Mustang V8 into it. If you look hard, you can still pick up a brand new basic spec one for around £15k. Also they are pretty rare with only around 800 built before MG-Rover went bust and the Chinese have no plans to reintroduce it as it's too much of a niche product.
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I agree with Slint on general principles. Invisible muscle car, much better than high-profile 'prestige' motor. Depends what you really want of course.
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