I would want them properly bedded. But I noticed a couple of weeks ago that a neighbour had theirs redone and the roofer just went along the edges and covered the old render with a ribbon on new mortar.
It might be that it was a cowboy, no name on the van.
I would do some reading up on nhbc before contacting them - I know there was a good deal of fuss a few years ago about their reluctance to pay out. I would be certain of how things need to be presented.
Also of course you want it fixed asap not to wait for them to inspect. Perhaps ensure that the roofer that repairs puts it in writing that they were not fitted properly in the first place?
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Oh SJB, it seems we have a lot in common, twins, water ingress into a detached double garage and a now a problem with ridge tiles!
Our house has a slate roof though the garage roof is tiled, we have had ongoing problems with the mortar between the ridge tile and slate becoming detached and rolling down the roof, luckily the tiles have stayed put - finger crossed he says looking outside today - though lumps of mortar can do damage, the drive is far enough from the house so the cars should be OK though I have been concerned about the conservatory.
No such problems with the ridge tiles on the tiled garage roof.
The builders have attended to the roof on three occasions over nearly five years in each case re-mortaring the ridge tiles though to no avail, they now propose fitting a "dry ridge system" where apparently the ridge tiles are secured from underneath and interlock so as to be water tight.
Reckon it might be worth calling NHBC, though if due to gales it might be considered an act of god.
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Thanks, Guys. Roofer due any minute, so will try to use his knowledge to make a judgement. Have read up on NHBC website, though my brother shares the scepticism about success in the event that I do feel I have a claim. One idea is to ensure that my insurer knows; perhaps they will then do some of the running as it is in their interest.
Thankfully, the cars escaped with no more than a shower of dust and some tiny slate fragments; thank heavens I keep large cardboard boxes in the garage roof...
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Ridge tiles should be bedded on mortar and pointed to shed water,cowboys just smear a bit of mortar on old joints to make it look good.
--
rustbucket (the original)
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Ridge tiles are normally only bedded on mortar along the long edges. Not laid on dry and then pointed up, but bedded on mortar then pointed. The mortar should be a 1:3 mix (cement:sand) which is stronger than standard bricklaying mortar.
The curvature of the tiles usually means they are not in contact with the timber ridge (or top of trussed rafters), so cannot be bedded in mortar over their full area. But if done properly they should last years, perhaps the mortar used was the wrong mix?
Rich.
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Thanks, Rich 9-3; all exactly what the roofer has just said, and it is clear that ours have been bedded on narrow strips of normal brick laying lime mortar; the large strips of the stuff lying on the ground crumble and snap easily, and the ridge tiles show no evidence of adherance to the mortar; they are clean as a whistle where the mortar contact would have been, and likewise the mortar pieces show no evidence of dark grey ridge tile powder.
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I would be astounded if a new house has been built with lime mortar. Most builders dont know anything about lime, its either something that goes in lager or a plasticiser in mortar :)
I am all in favour of lime mortar btw, just lime and sand is the thing to use on old buildings.
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I would be astounded if a new house has been built with lime mortar. Most builders dont know anything about lime, its either something that goes in lager or a plasticiser in mortar :) I am all in favour of lime mortar btw, just lime and sand is the thing to use on old buildings.
ONLY the correct lime and aggregate please.
MD
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whats 'correct' then ? there is a lot of varied experience out there.
I take your point though.
I've made my own lime putty, made mortar from putty as well as bagged lime (various sand / clay / ash etc for flavour), made plaster. Not done anything to get a chemical set though. I might if I decide to play with Venetian plastering when the bathroom gets redone.
far more interesting than cement and gypsum.
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NHBC only covers major failures - like house falling down!
If the ridge tiles were not properly laid down the builder can still be held liable - sales of goods act!!
My son's house was 2+ years old when some of the ceiling in the bathroom came away - problem was that the extractor fan was not vented but the pipe left loose in loft - builder came fixed the venting, replastered ceiling, painted ceiling etc - That said the builder is regarded as one of the better National Builders - is yours?
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is yours?
> out of business.
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is yours? > out of business.
Are you sure? Perhaps gone as a name via consolidation in the industry which so effectively trading under another brand.
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Are you sure? Perhaps gone as a name via consolidation in the industry which so effectively trading under another brand.
Funnily enough, during lunch today I did some research; Far from "going out of business" as I was told by a plumber, after our house was completed, Wilcon Homes, the builder, was purchased by Bryants, who are part of Taylor Woodrow.
Back to the problem; two roofers have now said the same thing today without prompting;
1) Wrong mortar for roofing (sure enough you can pick it off with your fingers and having chosen an unpointed internal area of garage wall to compare with, it looks identical to the brick mortar.
2) Slate or reconstituted slate roofs should not have ridge tiles held purely by mortar on the long faces (as ours area) because of the degree of flex and heat induced movement; I can understand such temperature varying movement, but have no way of knowing if this statement is factually correct. One roofer is suggesting that instead of reseating all the existing ridge tiles, if we intend to be here long term (he doesn't know, but we do), we invest in a "clip on / bolt on" system instead. I can see £££s here, but it *may* actually be a good investment...
A common point of professional view is also, just like here, that No Hope of a Buildings Claim is best forgotten, so I need to decide how to pursue Taylor Woodrow, and what proof I will need, versus cost of success and likelihood of success.
Informed comments as always appreciated.
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Funnily enough, during lunch today I did some research; Far from "going out of business" as I was told by a plumber, after our house was completed, Wilcon Homes, the builder, was purchased by Bryants, who are part of Taylor Woodrow. >>
As I thought, I would call the nearest Bryants office if I was you:
www.bryant.co.uk/ContactUs
Slate or reconstituted slate roofs should not have ridge tiles held purely by mortar on the long faces (as ours area) because of the degree of flex and heat induced movement>>
invest in a "clip on / bolt on" system instead. >>
Our problem precisely, we have had issues since moving in to the house when it was new hence the original roofing contractor is at our beck and call, having re mortared three or four times they are now proposing a dry ridge system.
How new is the house? If less than 6 years or so I should call Bryants and outline the issue to their customer services, "unsuitable materials used" etc etc.
Makes .dlls seem like a piece of cake.
Good luck.
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www.bryant.co.uk/ContactUs
Yes, ta; bookmarked earlier.
Our problem precisely
Sorry to hear it!
they are now proposing a dry ridge system.
Good to hear that our advice may be accurate
How new is the house?
New, not old, is the word; 2.5 years.
>>"unsuitable materials used" etc etc.
Will speak to insurer for advice in the first instance - as soon as I have the requested quotes for storm damage repair and "fixing the underlying cause" repair - and if I'm on my own without their vested interest, then call Bryants.
Makes .dlls seem like a piece of cake.
;-)
Good luck.
Thanks!
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N.H.B.C.
No House Built Correctly.
MD
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NHBC only covers major failures - like house falling down!
Hmm, to balance this common view that I have also historically subscribed to, what did my father say?
"I would argue the case strongly with NHBC that the problem arose from malpractice and you expect this malpractice to be rectified. I had no bother when I complained to NHBC re the downpipe not being connected properly to the surface water drain. They told XXXXXXXXX to fix it, and they did, after I told them that I would not accept a soakaway solution - clay does not "soakaway" and is another malpractice."
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SjB,
Just a thought, you probably already have done but if not, bag up and save some samples of the defective mortar. As a last resort, you may be able to send some samples off to a lab to test for cement content, or compressive strength (sounds excessive I know!), to prove the wrong mortar was used. May cost £35 - £50 per sample but i'm guessing. I suppose there is plenty more on the roof!
You could try someone like SGS Testing www.uk.sgs.com/contact_us_uk , but there may be someone else local to you. Some Local Authorities have their own testing laboratories, which may be cost effective (our local council one is competitive on cost but slow to provide info.).
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SjB, Just a thought, etc...
This is great, thanks! I had already saved some tiling, ridge tiling, and mortar, but not thought to use a testing service. Will invoke if proves necessary.
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2.5 years is no time at all for ridge tile mortar to require replacement - I would expect 10+ years. Sounds like someone has been cutting corners during construction.
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I put a few of my ridge tiles back on after the 87 (?) storm using a 3:1 sand cement mix , put underneath them with the tiles tapped down so it squirted out and they are still up there -- I am not a builder.
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SjB
I wouldn't rule out contacting NHBC as a first port of call. I've just checked my documents with them (on a 4 year old house) and years 3 to 10 specifically include roof damage (tiles etc) under their Buildmark scheme. I had reason to call them recently over some poor plumbing in my house (which wasn't covered) but you may have better luck.
I suspect that your buildings insurance might not allow a claim if it was due to poor workmanship (mine wouldn't) and if they do presumably you would then face higher premiums come renewal time.
I know NHBC haven't covered themselves in glory in the past but maybe premature to write them off? At least they were very apologetic on the phone when telling me I wasn't covered :)
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