My car has just had a 2 year servicing, at 21,000 miles. I was told that there was corroded glazing on the front discs and they needed changing at a cost of about £240. Questions follow
1. Is this normal for a car in daily use, that has never been near the sea, and has never stood unused for more than 10 days?
2. If the dicsc are changed should pads be changed too, even if they have life in them?
3. If manufacturer's OE discs are such rubbish is there anything to lose by buying cheap 'pattern' parts?
I have found a pair of discs on e bay for £49 + £10 carriage.
Thanks in advance for comments.
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Difficult to give a definitive answer. Brake pad wear varies from manufacturer to manufacturer & model to model. So many variables that can effect it:
driving style, type of car (performance etc), place where you live (hilly, flat, by the sea etc)
I've certainly known other people who have changed discs at similar distances, although if I remember correctly a few of them were due to warped discs & not necessarily wear.
Regarding the "ebay" ones bear in mind that the condition/quality of your brakes can determine how long you live / or not if they fail badly !!! Personally wouldn't fit anything cheap unless 150% confident they were of a good standard
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1. Depends on the car and how you use it. A big automatic car (no engine braking) will eat discs and pads a lot quicker than a small manual one. I find discs typically last for two sets of pads, after which they're shot. Pads last anything from 6,000-30,000 miles depending on the car.
2. Yes. The old pads will be worn to the grooves and imperfections of the old discs and will not make proper contact with the new discs. The bed in process will take forever and you'll have iffy brakes during that time.
3. Not in my experience as long as you stick to a half known brand replacement. Our Fiesta is wearing a pair of Lockheed/Delphi discs at the moment and they don't feel any different to the OEM ones on it before.
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Pug disc ( ATE ) available from Eurocarparts and always new pads check thou if they stock the 307 discs. Regards Peter
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3;which is probably what they were in the first place!!
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No, Armitage bought it new, so all OEM. Regards Peter
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VM's don't make their own discs and pads - they buy in from companies like ATE, Brembo etc, so yes, aftermarket discs are just fine. I've used a whole range (Delphi, Mintex, ATE etc) and never once had a problem. I would avoid anything very cheap though and I tend not to buy APE parts - although they are probably OK.
Be aware that mechanics are on bonus and a qucik disc/pad change is a favoured way of pulling in some extra money. Usually its along the lines of; "Hello Sir. We've got your car up on the ramps now and noticed that the front discs/pads are rather worn. Shall we go ahead and change them now? it will be cheaper/easier than leaving it and having to book it in again".
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My old Renault 5 went through front disks every 18 months / 5000 miles. I put it down to lack of heavy use.
I'd always fit new pads with new discs.
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www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=59
"Another consequence is that softer discs are more prone to surface corrosion eating into the discs."
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I nearly always recommend disc change every other pad change.
Always always always put new pads in with new discs.
Delphi parts appear to have gone under the heading of cheap parts on this posting, but they are up to oe spec. Well worth fitting imo.
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It's down to looking after them, eg replacing pads before they start scraping grooves in the discs, but above all, driving style.
My Volvo discs have now done 345,000 miles, and are smooth and within manufacturer's tolerances. I know that's probably a bit exceptional, but I'd have thought a minimum of 100,000 miles was about normal. I know someone with an Espace that has its original disks after 200,000 miles. He drives fast, but anticipates others' braking so uses his brakes very little.
They don't just wear out, YOU wear them out with your right foot.
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The original post referred to "corroded glazing" - this is what my disks suffered with. I put it down to lack of use and little heavy braking to clean an polish the disc surface. Nothing to do with mileage or wear.
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Martint123. What did you do about this problem, please? I am being told change discs which is ludicrous @ 21K miles and £250, on a 2 year old car, IMHO! Are my brakes going to become ineffective? I am tempted to run the car until it is due an MOT which will be just before the next service is due. If it passes the MOT I shall think the the brakes/discs are OK. Meanwhile what do I do for the next 11 months?
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I would remove the fronf wheels and measure the disc thickness on the working surface. If within spec, and I am sure they will be, use a groung off file like a chisel and rest it on the caliper turn the disc using a wrench using a couple of nuts locked together on a wheel stud and scour off the outer lip and outer rim rust. Then place some very abrasive emery cloth between the pads and the disc, apply a little brake pressure ( assistant required and turn the disc to remove the glaze. Remove the emery cloth and put it all back together. I prefer to use remove the disc and to the job on the bench using a spare hub assembly and an angle grider with a disc emery abrasion disc but I am sure the simple method will surfice. Pump the pedal to repostion the pads and repeat on the other side. Job done is less than an hour. Remember to check the pad thickness in case you should be changing those whilst you are in there. Regards Peter
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To Peter D re 3.Most manufacturers use a wide selection of suppliers,so the OEM could be Lockheed/Delphi in the first place;I did not say they had been changed.I have done what you say but removed the lip with an angle grinder.
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Martint123. What did you do about this problem, please? I am being told change discs which is ludicrous @ 21K miles and £250, on a 2 year old car, IMHO! Are my brakes going to become ineffective? I am tempted to run the car until it is due an MOT which will be just before the next service is due. If it passes the MOT I shall think the the brakes/discs are OK. Meanwhile what do I do for the next 11 months?
I changed the discs - 16 quid a pair. After that I made sure they got some heavy-ish use every so often - even resorting to left foot braking when starting off. It was parked outside and I think if the air was damp then surface rusting started. This in itself should be no problem, but I wasn't using them heavily enough to clear it off. Popping the discs off once a year and chipping the big flakes of rust off helped a bit.
Martin
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3 sons have had new disks fitted to comparatively new cars, 2 of them this years
1) Audi TT 18 mths & 14,000 mls- Corroded rear disks - garage & Audi said it was a consumable and son paid for 2 new disks & set of pads - £180 from memory
2) Lexus IS 200 - new disks fitted @ 30,000 mls service foc as all parts of Lexus apart from tyres, wipers, pads are regarded as fully warranted for 3 yrs.
3) 4 years ago another son with a 12mth Toyota Celica had the brake pads disintegrate and scored the disks. Not the supplying dealer so this dealer charged almost £200 for disks & pads - he tried to get the money back from Toyota but failed. He bought a replacement BMW despite the Toyota being fault free for 3 yrs - the charge for brake disk & pads soured his opinion.
Pattern of warrnated varies from 1 manufacturer to another and even Toyoat & Lexus (Same company) have different rules.
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armitage:
aprilia's comment "Be aware that mechanics are on bonus" is probably 100% the reason behind the new discs being recommended - see also honestjohn's article here:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/index.htm?news_id=413
" DISHONEST JOHN'S GUIDE TO SERVICE SCAMS - (A RIP-OUT RIP-OFF GUIDE FOR WORKSHOP MANAGERS TO HELP MAXIMISE SERVICE REVENUES)
The Brake Blag
During a routine service, 'discover' that the front brake discs are wearing thin and are in need of replacement. "
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No doubt some parts are changed or charged for unecesarily. but... if the garage didn't report on problems or recommend changing some parts some times a serious life threatening accident could occur. Brakes, wipers and bulbs spring to mind here.
Not all mechanics and garages are there just to rip you off.
If you dont like the way a garage treats you go somewhere else or get a 2nd opinion but dont always assume the garage is wrong.
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my mot man has a thing about discs the way he sees it he tests my cars and they can be stood for months before a victim/ (joke)punter buys it,therefore he errrs on the side of fail if they are not 100% perfect and if i was him i would do the same
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Indeed, back in the days when my father did MOTs, he would make sure that any cars presented by traders would get a very stringent test - his view was that these cars would soon be changing hands, with the MOT certificate with his signature on helping the sale, and any problems with the cars would result in hassle from the ministry of transport (or VOSA nowadays) for him as well as for the trader.
Number_Cruncher
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This is a common problem . In the 1970s when disc brakes first became common it was possible to buy remedial pads . These were even availiable from your local Ford dealer!!! as well as on the aftermarket. These were a normal pad with asn epoxy coating with carborundum grit in it . You just fitted them as normal and the grit cleaned up the discs before it wore off. When they ceased to be available I started to make up my own , and now if I have a disc corrosion problem I just take out the pads, apply a little fibreglass laminating resin and hardner with a dusting of spark plug sandblaster grit, leave to set and refit . Use the brakes gently for the first few miles and the problem is solved. DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK HOWEVER AS I CANNOT MONITOR YOUR MIX OF COATING.
It is high time these pads were launched commercially again.
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I take the pads out, then turn the disc with a file edge against the disc (resting on the caliper ) to remove the worst/flakey corrosion. A sort of coarse lathe. What comes off is extreemely hazardous to your health!
Corrosion and glazing are two intirely different phenomena!
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Thank you all for views and comments! They are noted!
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I take the pads out, then turn the disc with a file edge against the disc (resting on the caliper ) to remove the worst/flakey corrosion.
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I also poke all the rust out that is in the radial slots on the basis that the improved airflow must help.
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