Have noticed quite a few comments on forums concerning the reliability of Alfa Romeo Cam belts (in particular the cam belt tensioners) failing on Alfa 164?s and 156?s, well before their scheduled replacement (72K).
I have an Alfa 156 (3 ½ years old) that has covered 63K and bang went the cam belt a couple of weeks ago. Now facing a large bill to rebuild the engine. Car has been looked after and serviced on a regular basis.
A dealership near me kindly told me to contact Alfa UK based on a technical service bulletin they issued in September 2002. The bulletin (it is alleged) reported a problem with the cam belt tensioners which were failing on 156?s well before 72K.
To be honest I would normally take this on the Chin and say bad luck. However I am steaming that if Alfa know there is a problem with this component then they should at least send an advisory notice to customers to this effect. I contacted three dealerships who all tell me that I should have changed the cam belt between 50-60K.
Has anyone had a similar experience recently?
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If your car is 3 1/2 years old then was it sold after the 2002 bulletin ? If it was sold after the bulletin then have they not given incorrect info in the manual and therefore be a bit liable ? I would try it anyway.
where did you get it serviced ? I thought all alfa specialist recommended early cambelts ? Ive read of 36K recommendations.
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Thanks Mark - The car was registered at the end of Sep 2002 and had a 30K service at an Alfa dealer. The remaining services were carried out at another garage.
But thanks for the suggestion
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There has been MUCH contention here over the cambelt question.
Many guys were angry when Alfa 'moved the goalposts' on cambelt change, as they had bought alfas on the premise that the change was for 120 000kms NOT the 60 000 later recommended, and the change is NOT a simple job by any stretch of the imagination, and thus very costly.
HJ writes on his car-by-car:
September 2002: TSB issued to change timing belts and tensioners at 36,000 miles rather than 72,000 miles.
I KNOW that they are covered by the 'we reserve the right to change specifications' smallprint, but it is still a filthy trick to play on customers.
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Yep, correct service schedule for the cambelt is every 3 years or 36k miles.
Where you stand legally on the fact that the manuals still say 72k or 6 years, I'm not sure. I'd say it's worth a try to at least get Alfa to contribute though. Unfortunately, while Alfa's reputation for unreliability is mostly undeserved nowadays, their reputation for not being very helpful if something does go wrong seems to be still fairly accurate.
That's why I bought a 3 year old one and had it looked after by an independant.
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The cambelt on my Alfa was first changed within the warranty period (i.e., before the car was three years old) and this was back in 2000. At this point it will have been due to the rough running of the engine...the engine begins to sound like a diesel, especially when cold as the cam variator begins to wear and the timing of the ignition is not where it should be.
Alfa acknowledged to me (verbally only) that there was a problem! Whether this issue is completely different or actually precipitated the premature cambelt failure I don't know. I think that it can only have had something to do with it!
I have had my cambelt changed every 36k miles (now on 128k).
Fine, Alfa should have made the owners aware of the issue - and they did. Equally, the owner of the car ought really to take more interest in something that they have paid many thousands of pound for.
As for the Owners Manual being out of date...I bet all manuals are out of date to some extent by the time they are married up with the car in the showroom.
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>>As for the Owners Manual being out of date...I bet all manuals are out of date to some extent by the time they are married up with the car in the showroom.<<
You're right. Mine has 1998 as the printed date. Not too bad. My mate's 2002 Focus has the same though!
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The italian car specialist I take my lancias to has had lots of 156s with snapped belts, all around the 60k mark. At one point last year they seemed to be continuously rebuilding broken engines and usually had a couple of them at once. I'd never trust most cars to keep a belt and plastic tensioners together for more than 48k or 4 years. Italian cars even less so. It's so much cheaper to do an early belt and tensioners change than rebuild an engine :-/
Vauhxall had the same problem with their belts snapping early so they halved their belt and tensioners change interval too. I think VW have also done the same.
teabelly
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One my of work colleagues had an Alfa 156 cambelt failure just short of 70k. As per the schedule, it hadn't been changed at 36k - it had been booked in for a change in the near future.
The (bought, not Alfa) warranty paid for the work.
The car was unbelievably bad in many other respects - I'd always thought the talk of Alfas being unreliable rubbish was exaggerated until I saw what happened to this one.
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I will NOT buy a car requiring a belt change at 36k.
poor design, shoddy engineering.
Adds cost to servicing.
My views on Alfa and Fiat are reconfirmed..
madf
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Edit
And I don't rate GM engineering much either.. another prejudice confirmed.
If Ford can have 100k intervals.. why not them?
madf
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Thanks for all the replies.
I was warned about Italian motors before I got one and as such I have just had this confirmed.
To be fair the car has been ok up until the last month (since then three electrical faults).The real killer for me is that I booked the car in for a cam belt change (due to be today) 9K early.
However Alfa UK really need to sort out there customer service. No excuses for such shoddy service in this day and age.
Decided to take it to my local Alfa expert (not dealer) and take my chances in the small claims court.
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I was warned about Italian motors before I got one and as such I have just had this confirmed.
To be fair, I don't think you have. What you have had confirmed is that you should always know what you're buying.
It wasn't the cars fault that you weren't aware it was 20k miles overdue for a cambelt change.
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Bazza - I would refer to my previous comment concerning the other faults with the vehicle.
OK this could happen on any car but it adds up to about six significant problems on a car that?s less than four years old. These all seem to be reflected in HJ's road test of this model along with their re-sale values.>>
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>>However Alfa UK really need to sort out there customer service. No excuses for such shoddy service in this day and age.
Not sure how that figures, as you didnt have it serviced by Alfa, where had you had it serviced by them in they might have had a chance to tell you.
I wouldnt go to court if I were you.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The risk of early failure of the cambelt, without owners awareness, could be reduced by recall, or notice to all dealers. If the cam belt failed in use there would be some risk to the driver and other road users. From the VOSA site: "The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) supervises the recall of vehicles with safety defects throughout the United Kingdom. A safety defect is a feature of design or construction liable to cause significant risk of personal injury or death."
You might try informing VOSA of the issue?
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The difficulty is tht the OP had his last service at an Alfa dealership before the 36K recommended change interval. If challenged, they could argue that either
a) they hadn't been made aware of the reduced interval at the time,
b) the car was not yet due a change and would have had it at the 39/40k service - and Alfa can't be held accountable for work done by independents, or
c) as you weren't a known customer, despite their best efforts to notify owners, your car slipped through the net.
Disproving any of the above could be tricky, so looking for a goodwill gesture from Alfa might be the way to go. With another advertising push on to convince buyers that "no, really, we have got it right with the 159 this time" they may not relish another irate customer sharing his experiences with potential buyers.
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It might be worth a punt through Small Claims (or Money Claim Online). Not sure who you'd sue though - normally the legal responsibility is with whoever supplied the car.
Alfa UK *might* just pay up but whether it's legitimate to go after them directly, I don't know.
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If Ford can have 100k intervals.. why not them?
Hope your not including the focus in this statement.
They dont break the cambelts before 100k but they sure as hell brake the tensioners.Plenty of focus owners on ffoc pretty mad at fords 100k recomendation.Ten years or 100k for a piece of rubber on a plastic reel is nutty.First thing i did when i bought my focus estate(2000) was have the cambelt kit fitted at fords.
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if it had been serviced by alfa, you could have got alfa to pay for it completely (we did). However, i have seen dealers mark it on the 36k service that it needs checking, thus covering themselves if it fails.
had a selespeed sportwagon - cam belt failure, gearbox actuator failed and the undertray fell off. Fuse cover never stayed on properly. Now have honda accord 2.4 - can now actually carry stuff in the boot! Still like the alfa though............
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Alfa 156.s are renowned for cambelt failure usually cause by the tensioner failing along with oil pump failure causing engine ceasure.I think it is always wise to do your homework on the car you driving any Alfa write ups I have read point to these failures and the agents will tell you to change the cambelt at 37k so theree is no big secret about it.Ford use long life belts unfortuneatly as previously stated their tensioners are not.
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so many of these engines seem to fail early that i am surprised that your local garage has not recommended a belt and tensioner long before now?
Maybe time to change your garage for one that has up to date technical knowledge, i think even in the car by car breakdown on this site there is a warning?
just checked and there is quite clearly a warning that it needs to be done at 35/40 thou.......... well done hj
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I have just had a £2k bill for cam belt failure. I had a new cam belt at 47k due to 'contamination'. Exactly 47k miles later .... bang ..... £2k and yes I have a full service history with dealers (at great expense) up until the car was 3 years old and a reputable garage after.
Alfa customer services were very nice initially and I was told they would advise a full reimbursement. What a joke that was. I waited for over 4 months, kept calling just to be told that they were not prepared to help. The reason, my car is 5 years old and the time between both cam belts was too long (3 years less 6 days). I now have to write in again to customer services no doubt to be laughed at and turned down yet again.
Alfa have to come clean and inform owners by recall. Lets get together and get something done.
I am Italian and lover of Italian cars and have had 5 friends and colleagues buy an Alfa 156 since I got mine but to be honest I'm embarrassed now to have championed these cars. I was considering a 159 but now I?ll get an Audi, VW or BMW
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I would have thought it was the mileage that was too great, not the time span, if the recommended interval is now 36K.
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Hang on a minute, you buy a car only have one service done by the manufacturer, then get it done by an independant & you blame Alfa Romeo! Vauxhalls cambelt design was made from chocolate & have been through this 3 or 4 times with very little comment.
The intervals have been 36K for some time, others such as Vauxhall & more importantly VW have been slow to reduce the intervals.
Get it serviced by the manufacturer & they'll inform you of changes like this, but don't drop out of the chain then expect the manufacturer to pay.
Oil pump failure was some early cars almost unheard of post 2000.
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they formally updated the info last year. diesels are still 72k although specialists seem to recommend
60k.
the tech bulletin is here :
forum.alfa156.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29973&...1
given that this is well known and all the specialists seem to advise the change at much lower milage who has been servicing the car and not telling you.
that said alfa uk seem to have been very good about paying up. the fact that you only had one service at alfa may be an issue though.
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sorry mixing two posts - you have had 3 years plus of alfa servicing. the point about who has been servicing it stands though.
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Sorry, maybe I didn?t make myself clear. My 156 was serviced by a dealer for near 4 years and cam belts were changed by authorised dealers, I used an independent for two minor services only (which you can use as long as they are VAT registered nowadays without affecting your warrantees though I wsas out of the offical warrantee period) and had the belt that went recently checked as it reached 37k miles by an Alfa trained technician and it was cleared. If I had gone to ?honest jons? and had the belts changed I would agree with what you are saying but I didn?t
I guess I?ll have to take this one on the chin as I?ve just seen the forum a posted though its dated Jan 2007 and I have never seen or been advised on the attached mailer. Now I?ll admit I?m no car-nut but don?t manufacturers generally do a product recall? I got one from Alfa last year for ?dodgy bonnet catches? but not the cam belts so they know where I am and that I?m an owner
I will still pursue Alfa for supplying parts not fit for purpose, especially one so critical. And of course the people who carried out the interim service.
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>>Now I?ll admit I?m no car-nut but don?t manufacturers generally do a product recall?
I doubr if they would do a product recall unless there ia a safety issue, the rest woudl be dealt with via service bulletins to the dealers.
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It isnt good enough just to look at the belt. From what I read the tensioners go. Apparently there are several different types with varying degrees of reliability. I would do some digging (ie dont rely on my opinion) then have words with the alpha trained mechanic that said it was OK.
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First, I'll apologise to this site for stating I didn't buy this car from 'honest jons' car sales :o) Ooops
I will be speaking with the Alfa garage that replaced the belts as they have kept all the parts that were replaced (top end I guess) and of course the mechanic who carried out the service.
I?m amazed that cam belts unfit for purpose don?t warrant a recall or something along these lines, especially when owners are looking at £2k a pop.
Its not until you get into a forum like this that things start becoming apparent. In hindsight I should have kept an eye out for this.
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had the belt that went recently checked as it reached 37k miles by an Alfa trained technician and it was cleared. I will still pursue Alfa for supplying parts not fit for purpose, especially one so critical. And of course the people who carried out the interim service.
I don't see a part which isn't fit for purpose. I would think if anything you have comeback against the Alfa technician who said it was all fine, when in fact it clearly (according to the service schedule as well) required replacement.
Where was this Alfa technician? At an Alfa dealer, or an independant? And has it been recorded anywhere that he OKed it?
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