This would still not have been soon enough for the two tensioner failures on our Leon 1.6 at 35K and 15K later. Surely it would be better to redesign the part and charge more than the £25 for the rubbish plastic item that caused so much hassle.
Tim
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Buy a Nissan. All their engines are chain driven. Thank heavens.
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Ahh yes, but since my cam chain/tensioner failed on my 33,000 mile old Navara, which resulted in a £4000 bill of which I had to pay £1400 since the vehicle was 11 days outside its 3 year warranty, I wouldnt sleep too peacefully if I were you. Vehicle had been serviced outside franchised network, customer service pointed out there was a service bulletin about cam chains...not a service problem or build problem you understand just a service bulletin...and said chain may well have been changed if vehicle had been to a franchised dealer and cam chain was diagnosed as noisy...so appaqrently its my fault not going to the franchised dealer...
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Update to my Nissan Navara Cam guide/chain failure and repair ( 11 days out of warranty and at a cost of £1400 to myself)Today after 25miles the car stopped with an ominous noise, I believe the repair has failed. I have now not had use of the car for a total of two months and its now back at the dealers. I will know tomorrow the cause of the breakdown...maqybe if they have time to look at it...I despair..what should I do?.
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Update, head has been removed and pistons and valves have made contact again. Dealer promises this time he will get it right. How many times can pistons and valves met before piston crowns have been critically damaged?. I have been without the truck now 2 months...what are my rights to a new engine?.
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My local Seat dealer said the same thing last week while I was talking with them about servicing my Fabia (local Skoda dealer isn't too local). I had assumed 60K so it looks like I'll be doing three changes instead of the two over the time I own the car.
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If only everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagen..
... You'd be servicing your dishwasher every 2 washes.
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This is pathetic. If VAG, a manufacturer that supposedly wants to compete with Mercedes and BMW, cannot design an engine range without needed major work after four years or 40,000miles, then what on earth are they in business for.
If the change applies to car bought a couple of years ago, when the change time was higher - do they have any claim under the sale of goods act? 'I anticpated two changes, but now need three - who will pay for the third change?' Is the car fit for purpose etc etc
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Is this petrol or diesel VaG engines and where did this story come from ?
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Wife's Clio is 50k or 5 years, I am happy with that, I would not want to trust a cambelt beyond that anyway, I had it done at 5 years though only 18k. It is true to say though that 40k is a yearly cambelt change for the average salesman which seems a bit excessive so to me points in the direction of a chain cam engine rather than extending cambelt change intervals.
Reckon many fleet managers may be looking away from Passats, Octavias, Leon., A4's etc.
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Haven't those in the know been saying this for ages?
Also, does this apply to every single VAG car ever powered by an engine with a cam-belt?
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VAG engineering: going firmly into the future with our technology going backwards.
Glad I own a Ford with 100k miles changes:-)
madf
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Just had my Alhambra 1.9 TDi done at 40,000 miles. Job cost £420 at main dealer.
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VAG engineering: going firmly into the future with our technology going backwards. Glad I own a Ford with 100k miles changes:-) madf
I suggest you read the Focus cambelt thread before you scoff!!
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Haven't those in the know been saying this for ages? Also, does this apply to every single VAG car ever powered by an engine with a cam-belt?
I wouldn't worry about your old Polo, 60K or five years is fine. The important thing to watch is the water pump, since it's used to tension the belt.
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Thanks Xileno. I was going to have the water pump changed at the last service along with the antifreeze, but my VW independent asked why. I explained that it?s still the original pump and that I thought it best to have it changed incase it seized and snapped the cam belt. The receptionist said it was a lot of work and got the manager/head mechanic to have a word with me. He basically said that although he's been doing this for years, he's never seen a water pump on a Polo like mine seize yet, but confirmed that if it did, it would indeed strip the belt. Also, replacement might not always prevent a seizure, thus its not worth it. I have every reason to trust him, as he's been on the go a while and its quite a well respected garage. His last line was, "I've even managed to talk myself out of a lot of work there, but that?s my opinion"
Sorry HJ, i know you were after different responses...
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Why do so many cars have the water pump running on the timing belt. Shouldnt it run on something else so there is no chance of it failing and taking the engine with it?
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I always thought it ran off the aux drive belt, till recently.
Seems a stupid way of doing things though, the timing belt should be for just that, and the drive belt(s) should do that.
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HJ - is this advise on ALL VAG engines, or just the 1.4 & 1.6 16v engines that are known to have problems with plastic rollers ?
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Cmabelt changes are vital at the correct interval on engines which will be seriously damaged by failure but I understand some engines are not harmed. It would be really useful to know which ones are in which camp.
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All modern ones will be damaged, I think.
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All modern ones will be damaged, I think.
>>
And some old ones. My 1.6 Cortina Crusader, the last of the production, had the cambelt go. AA man was right when he said it would be OK. He also said if it had been the larger capacity engine then I would have got a big bill for the work.
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Interesting couple of items here:
My Bora 2.0 8v had it's 4 year service in August. No Mention of Cam Belt required. If that's the case, what happens if it fails before it's next service.
And on that note. A Friend of mine had his 5 year old Audi A3 1.8 serviced also in July at Audi. It had done the necessary mileage and age, but Audi did not change the Cambelt.
In December, his Cambelt failed, allegedly caused by the water pump according to Audi. They are quoting him £2800 to fix everything, which he is disputing on the basis that they should have changed the cambelt (and pump) at the service.
They are not taking responsibility, saying that the 5 year/mileage came into effect in September.
He is still fighting with them....I wish him luck, I'm certain that VAG will make customers foot the bill when their cambelts fail unless in warranty, even if missed at service.
VAG should issue a recall to any affected owners who've recently had their 4 year service, or had close to or over 40k on the clock at that time.
-------------------
VW Bora (51) 2.0 SE
VW Touran (54) 19. TDI
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"The timing belt no longer needs to be replaced on Volkswagen's 1.0 to 1.6 l gasoline engines for its Lupo, Polo and Golf models, nor in the group?s Skoda and Seat model lines."
"The new technology will be used for the first time in Audi TFSI engines and in the new Golf V."
"Volkswagen realizes the pump-injector unit on its TDI engines using the latest-generation timing belt technology from ContiTech. Thanks to the pump-nozzle injection technology, en-gine performance and service lives are now possible with an injection pressure exceeding 2,000 bar - something that could not be achieved either with conventional timing belts or chains."
www.contitech.de/ct/contitech/themen/kommunikation...l
PR hype?
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Well found colinh!
From the same article:
"The belt can be routed via any number of deflection pulleys for auxiliary drives."
Yes but due to catstrophic consequences of a cam belt failure it just does not make sense running auxiliaries off the cam drive when they can be run from a seperate auxiliary belt.
"During injection on the Golf TDI, up to 4.5 kN is pulling on the CONTI HSN-POWER® timing belt, which is not permitted to stretch by more than a few tenths of a millimeter."
Again, makes PD running off the camshaft sound like a daft solution to the high pressure injector problem, much better to have a seperate drive for the injection pump/pumps.
I have a lot of respect for Continetal as a company however they seem to be claiming that cambelts can last 240k KM / 160k miles at the same time a VAG are saying 40k miles.
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My November 1999 1.6 16v Bora has done around 56k so, presumably, I should be sweating right now....:-(
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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My November 1999 1.6 16v Bora has done around 56k so, presumably, I should be sweating right now....:-(
Irrespective of the mileage taking it over 6 years is pushing it IMHO.
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Well found colinh! From the same article: "The belt can be routed via any number of deflection pulleys for auxiliary drives."
It doesn't say anything about the life of the tensioners! - or is that being cynical.
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Re the Press article discovered by ColinH.
I have read it,the claim for reliability apears to apply to certain vehicles manufactered 2005 onwards eg the Mk.V Golf, what about the thousands of Mk4 earlier Golfs ?
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'"Volkswagen realizes the pump-injector unit on its TDI engines using the latest-generation timing belt technology from ContiTech.'
Eh?Realizes what?Doesn't make any sense.
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Had it in writing this afternoon from a main VAG dealer, in connection with a quote to replace one, that it's 80,000 miles or 5 years for the A6 2.8. "The recommended change interval is every 80000 miles or 5 years whichever occurs first."
Interestingly enough, mine was serviced by them at its 5th anniversary. They neither replaced the belt nor made mention of it in their "advisory report." So if it goes before it gets replaced in the next couple of weeks (see earlier posting) I'll be reaching for the lawyers, sure as eggs.
I suppose, it it weren't for all the hassle involved, I should be praying that does go first !
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Hello ubidenmark, my old GL5 Passat [Audi 5cyl engine] was sold at 190,000 plus - cambelt only changed at 135,000 when water pump failed. It looked perfect.
Then 2.0GL Passat sold at 242,000, original belt but tension pulley changed when heard to be imminently seizing.
I also now have an Audi A6 2.8, 90,000 so far. I have no intention of changing the belt as it looked perfect when I inspected it 5,000 miles ago.
If it works, don't mend it, but inspect regularly and keep ears open for suspicious noises and investigate immediately.
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very true,
passat 2.0 cl 131.000 checked belt often never ever changed it.
passat 1.9 gl tdi (95) one change @ 120,000 in a total of 187.000
if it looks ok and nothing sound bads leave it
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Cam-belts need early changes.
Sounds like a lot of trouble with no foundation!!
Talk about opening yourself up for trouble because of forums?
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Reminds me of the panic when coffee and then toilet rolls were due to become virtually unobtainable.
The shop shelves were cleared within hours and yet, a week or so later, everything was back to normal and has remained so ever since.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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"toilet rolls were due to become virtually unobtainable"
wiped out?
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Perhaps VAG have realised that the durability of their cars is not as good as is perceived by the more naive members the motoring public.
--
L\'escargot.
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if it looks ok and nothing sound bads leave it
Cam belts usually look O.K.-until they snap.That's why they are replaced at specified intervals instead of waiting for wear to become apparent.
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well my A6 1.9TDI (R Reg) has got to 300K on original engine and box (still going strong).......changed the cambelt every 60K.....so if you want to keep it, its worth sticking to the schedule...
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p207.ezboard.com/fvolkswagenandaudidriversfrm24.sh...c
So it looks like its true.
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4 years/60000 miles as i read it?
Be nice to know what the average recommendation is for cambelt changes.I drive less than 5 thousand a year so belt changes are always done on a time basis for me.Sure would'nt like the idea of having a focus and leaving it ten years before a change of belt/chain(whatever they are).To me 4/5 years is quite long enough.
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This thread is both interesting and important, can I ask HJ if and how he is going to let us all know the outcome of his discussions with VAG?
Michael
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Come back pushrods, all is forgiven ;-)
40k? An engine is only just run in by then.
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to warn all VAG customers that all timing belts and tensioners must be changed by 4 years. May also be "or 40k miles, whichever comes first".
As this thread had become so confused and a bit scary, as owner of a 1 1/2 year old diesel A4 i contacted Audi direct about this just to clarify things. They tell me that there is no change at all from the service schedule on my car ie 60,000 or 4 years, so panic over.
So how can VW who use exactly the same 1.9 TDI engine justify this ? Has anyone asked the question of VW for this engine ?
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My dealer confirmed yesterday that ALL VW emgines with cambelts should be changed at 4 years/60k which ever comes first.
Any official line from VW yet HJ other than dealer comments?
Joe
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I have a Skoda Octavia 1.416v (water pump failed at 46K,belt stayed on!) and a Skoda Superb 1.9tdi pd both sourced and serviced at Skoda dealers and have not received any notification about cam-belts. Will check in the morning!
A friend has a Seat Ibiza 1.9sdi that suffered total water pump mechanical breakdown (1/2"+ of drive wheel movement!) at 98K. He was lucky - the cambelt stayed on but it played havoc with the timing. After I spotted the fault he was towed back,he than had the work done at a local garage. The cam belt had previously been changed at 60K but not the Water Pump.
He has not received notification from his dealer, but he was recentley recalled for a brake servo pipe (I think it was that?).
I'm sure my old Passat 1.6TD had a seperate belt for the waterpump.
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VAG is turning into Germanys Rover the staff used to take pride in making them but not any more, because of the dire financial situation having to pay back to the government large illegal subsidies they are trying to cut costs at every corner including the use of cheap labour.It has cost them millions of euros in sorting out the faulty alloy suspension units you would think they would learn that cost cutting on such a vital small but essential part is head in the sand.I hate to say it the japanese have them beat at every turn even I have gone Nissan for my everyday transport and that was hard on the ego.
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This is from the VW Driver & Audi Driver Magazine forum
p207.ezboard.com/fvolkswagenandaudidriversfrm24.sh...c
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Re: Timing belts
I am a member of the design team on VW Group diesel engines. I used to post on the Honest John website and can confirm that belt-change recommendations have altered.
This is primarily because engines with unit-injectors (PD) have much higher mechanical loading than simple injection pump engines. When we tried to specify particular oils for the PD engines there was great confusion. Owners did not seem to know whether their engine was PD or not.
Rather than specify shorter change intervals for PD units it was felt simpler to specify the same intervals for all.
Cost is but one factor in specifying chain or belt. Noise is a major factor as is engine redesign to encompass lubrication for the chain. Chains are not the be-all and end-all solution as any Honda motorcyclist of the 80's will tell you. Their camchains were a nightmare.
Edited by: sean57 at: 21/1/06 8:25 pm
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So; which are the PD engines and which are the non PD engines?
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and how do you tell?
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Without knowing the model history e.g. 90bhp not PD but 100bhp is PD ,it is not easy to tell.
And VW have not eased the problem by sticking to TDI badging- why not PDI?
--
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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