As with all common rail diesels; enjoy it - but be very sure to sell it before the warranty expires.
Amen to that.
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Not heard about this problem.Thought common rail was the ultimate technology?
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I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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Thanks to them being very expensive to repair, if a problem occurs?
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Thanks for that . problem is that this vehicle is over 60,000 miles therefore out of warrenty the dealer said it was a problems with the brain
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Oh just had them on the phone mazda main agent that is and they have said it is a PCM which is an engine management control system some electrical bit and it costs 2394.13 pounds sterling plus two hours labour to fit help good news is they only charged £130 to tell me.
Help
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is that TWO THOUSAND POUNDS?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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sorry not two thousand just picked uo the quote 2394.13 plus two hours labour and vat thats 2942.35 presuming there are no unforeseen problems nice eh.
just drove it home drove lovley
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Sorry? so that two thousand nine hundred pounds?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Might be worth approaching Mazda for a good will contribution.
If common rail diesels are going to be expensive to keep running, then it makes a mockery out of having one to save 10 to 15 mpg.
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Might be worth approaching Mazda for a good will contribution. If common rail diesels are going to be expensive to keep running, then it makes a mockery out of having one to save 10 to 15 mpg.
Yes. And that is exactly why I won't be buying one. Add in other problems (like possible mis-fuelling problems), plus the siezed glowplug I had in a Merc CDi and the siezed injector I had in a BMW engine and I think they make a very risky secondhand buy. The amount of money saved on fuel disappears into insignificance. These are definitely 'company car only' motors IMHO!
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Scrap Dealer for a write-off Diesel Mazda looks like an option.
Years ago my son had a problem with a ECU and the local dealer said £500 for a new one - a local independdent took the circuit board out and gave it to an "electronics wizard" = £40 to fix it - he sweated out a component that had failed and soldered in a new one - the statement was £5.00 for the component and soldering and £35 for knowing what one to replace.
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Thanks Falkirk Bairn a little hope at last any other advice from anyone well apprciated
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I think that is why these late breed of diesels are known as "common fail" in the trade!!!
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ric
Three grand to fix an idle problem is ridiculous! If they're REALLY sure that this is a fault with the PCM [Powertrain Control Module - engine ECU to everyone else!] and they're not just guessing at it; then talk to people like BBA-Reman about possible testing and repair of your own unit. This would avoid any re-coding hassle from fitting a secondhand unit.
Alternatively; take it to a local diesel specialists for a full live-data pressure check and second opinion. Japanese ECU failure is a very rare occurrence, so be doubly sure before risking that sort of money.
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It may not be what you would want to do, but why not trade it in whilst you still can?
Reggie
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thanks everyone for your comments and help
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Try a search on this link
www.247spares.co.uk/carpartsearch/parts_browse/car.../
They seem to have mazda 6's , you might be lucky ,good luck
Baz
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thanks baz very useful site
i did over 100 miles today it did not stall once is it normal for this type of fault to be so itermitant ?
anyone ??
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Today i have written to Mazda head office Technical service dept so maybe they can help i will let you know what they say
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"PCM [Powertrain Control Module - engine ECU to everyone else!]"
So is that a problem only to be found on the much derided (above) common rail diesels??
Are the glowplug and injector faults mentioned above also only found on common rails?
When should my wife have sold her 90k HDi ? About 3 years ago?? When it had done 60k - blimey, it had done 58k when we bought it!
I'm worried - we have 4 common rails in the family!
Or is it scaremongering (unlikely from Aprilia!)like when I came to replace my ancient BX years ago and people said "don't buy a turbo one, they are notoriously unreliable and blow up"
Do modern trucks use common rail ?? Do they get replaced every 60k??
Phil
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Its a question of risk and probability isn't it?
Firstly CR Diesels are really pretty reliable, but they are very complex. The snag is that if you are unlucky enough to have a problem then they are much more difficult to diagnose and more expensive to repair than old-style Diesels and most petrol injection engines.
Taking the HDi; you have injectors at £300-400 a piece. LP pump is about £180 IIRC, and HP pump is around the £600 mark (+labour to fit, of course). When the LP pump goes the HP usually follows some time after. Then you have the various sensors over and above those used on petrol engine. Petrol engine works at (typically) 30-60psi fuel pressure; CR Diesel works at 20,000-35,000psi!!. The engineering and diagnostic equipment requirements are in a different league.
Add to the above the possibility of latent catastrophe from past mis-fuelling and IMHO they are more of a secondhand risk than they are worth. If that weren't enough they also often have a dual-mass flywheel to smooth engine vibration. These are proving rather unreliable - so add a possible £400 to a clutch change. I would sooner pay the extra few quid for the lower mpg of a petrol engine. Realistically the average buyer is not going to have a disaster, but personally I would enjoy a car more without that risk hanging over it...
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I have many friends who drive these new breed of diesel engines, and so far almost all have been very happy with them. however i do know of one friend whose mercedes needed new injectors and some other associated parts at a relatively low mileage (cant remember what exactly), and i was shocked at the price of the replacements - Well into 4 figures.
Having had an old tech xud diesel and being used to affordable parts, i was flabbergasted. It did put me off the latest type of diesels somewhat.
But i still believe they are a generally pretty reliable technology.
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I'll say it again and again Common rail is a very old technology was purely mechanical in its inception but now is reliant on electronics That's where the trouble starts in fact mechanical common rail is simpler than any of your Bosch/Lucas pumps so beloved of your Peugeot XUD's
Cummins have had electronic common tail for many years and have not had too much trouble lets hope that once again large Diesel plant technologies filters down to us motorist
Take it to a good independent diesel specialist
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Much as I respect your viewpoint, and your vastly superior technical knowledge, Aprilia, I have to say that, had I heeded the advice of the many 'doom-mongers' on this site, I would be in an early grave by now. When I first joined 4(?) years ago, some clot recommended that all cars with immobilisers should be avoided at all costs - which today would rule out just about anything less than 10 years old - I remember this person getting very animated (in writing) about it. I don't wish to tarnish you with the same brush and have utmost respect for your viewpoint, but as a mathematician, rather than an engineer, I must take issue with the sentiment that Common rail diesels should be avoided.
Like you I've always worked on the probability theory myself which, in this case, says that there are far too many common rail diesels out there for me to be majorly alarmed. On balance of probabilities, I'll be ok. At worst, if I'm unlucky, life's too short to worry. Buy something else. More likely, if far too many of these machines start falling on their backs after 4 or 5 years, the press for the red-faced motor manufacturers will make interesting reading.
Frankly, I have to say that some of the negative comments about common rail diesels in this thread are unnecessarily alarmist and misleading. I like my diesel. I remember Mark RLBS's thread a few years back about people becoming neurotic on this site. This thread has that sort of tone about it.
Splodgeface
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I think you are over-reacting splodge.
Aprilla simply made the point that the costs and complexity of repairing modern diesels is v.high compared to the likely value of the vehicle )and higher than equiv petrols)
Taken in conjunction with the lifetime fuel saving, the diesel decision is increasingly marginal.
Risk is about two things. Probability of event is only the first (although mathematicians concentrate on it), and low probability of a failure is good. The rest of risk (which project managers / engineers have to consider) is the consequences of the event. Not everyone can afford to throw away value so easily.
Even a low probability of having a crash (or being caught), doesnt stop me having insurance.
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Perhaps I am tempting fate - touch wood and all that - though in 100k miles in my Mondeo CR diesel I have not had any CR related failures, I have used less that 10000 ltrs fuel as opposed to 13500 ish in a 2.0 petrol or 15000 + in a 2.5 V6 so at a mean 90p a litre I have saved perhaps three to three and a half grand, this would go a long way to any CR related failing.
Rough figures I know.
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The main point which has not been covered is what happens to these complex cars as they get older. I drive a common rail diesel, I like it but I generally trade my cars in quite often and am in a position to run a new or nearly new model. So if it all goes pop I don't care as I'm not footing the bill.
But as these cars get older, they will be owned by people who probably have less money and probably no warranty cover. On my 205 under the bonnet it's all very simple and cheap to fix. On my Renault (and probably all modern diesels) if you lift the bonnet it's all main dealer or specialist stuff.
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Yer but no but whats wrong with mine it was ok for aonther 132 miles in traffic yesterday please tell me that Mr bloke at Mazda main dealer dont know what his talking about. someone told me they had the same problem on a Vauxhall cavalir and it was a cam belt sensor and the guy who does my car normally who incidently is very good most times says that the PCM ethier works corectly or it dont it doesnt work ok monday to wednesday have an off day on thursday pack up totaly on friday then work fine on saturday or does it?
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ric22
I think you have to rely on the dealer. There is no point in me or anyone trying to diagnose 'remotely'. I would assume that Mazda have had the vehicle and put it on their diagnostics. You could, of course, try another Mazda dealer for a second opinion.
Faults **can** be intermittant, of course.
With regards to comments by 'Splodgeface' about CR Diesels - well I think it does come down to risk and cost-benefit analysis. If you are covering a high mileage and having the vehicle from new then in three years you will save a fair amount of fuel and any problems will be covered by warranty.
Buying secondhand at three years and then only covering 'average' mileage is much less certain. You will likely pay more for a s/hand Diesel than a petrol and then there is the higher cost of any necessary repairs.
As I said, I think **most** owners won't have problems, but I know I can diagnose and fix pretty much any petrol injection fault. When it comes to CR Diesel, unless its something fairly obvious, then I'm stuck and its off to the main dealer or a specialist with the right kit, at high labour rates. CR have more parts (e.g. two fuel pumps instead of one), and the parts are themselves more complex and highly engineered.
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I don't think I'm over-reacting. Rather the opposite: I'm advocating a laid-back 'suck it and see' approach.
I accept everything said about the highly engineered, potentially high cost repairs on an out-of-warranty CR diesel. Yes, I'm taking a risk. But I don't think it is sound advice to recommend people ditch these cars before they lose their warranty. On pure economics, on balance of probabilities, a private owner will stand to lose at least as much on depreciation than they would potentially pay out in future repairs.
I bought my Mondeo TDCi new (Trade Sales), only had 2 yrs warranty, only paid £80 garage bills in 3rd year which more than justified the deal given the £5K saving on list price. If I flogged my car, now, I'd lose an absolute fortune in depreciation. I'll keep it. I recognise that things will go wrong. I had an expensive few years with my old cavalier round about the 4-5 yrs old mark. Then had 4 years of tyres and brakes servicing while the car was worth practically nothing.
Stop worrying about breakdowns! They will happen, whatever you buy and however old it may be. Life's too short!
Sorry to hijack ric22's thread.
Splodgeface
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Blimey!.Glad mines a petrol one
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