These vacuum oil extractors are quite popular in the USA enabling quick and easy oil changes but I've never heard of anyone (DIYers I mean) using one.
I'm thinking of buying one as my car has large sump shield that is very difficult to get off when the car is just raised on front ramps (attempted once!).
The unit is a plastic reservoir tank capacity 6.5L with a manual vacuum pump attached and a 3/16th dia. plastic tube which is inserted through the dipstick tube into bottom of the sump. Pump the handle to create a vacuum and the oil is sucked out (takes about 15/20 minutes .
this is the unit (there are others similar):
www.cdet.co.uk/catalogue/product/default.asp?produ...0
and this is how it's done:
www.bmw325i.net/maint_oil_extractor.shtml
So has anyone any experience? Do you think they are any good?
My initial thoughts were that the conventional method was best but nowadays many garages use a similar system of "top extraction" the local BMW dealer definately does.
With 2 cars it would soon pay for itself I'm thinking.
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I've actually got the Pela - bought it from a boat yard (they are widely used to draining boat engines). It works fine. I have a good workshop and inspection pit though, so I tend to have the car over the pit anyway, so its pretty easy to drain the oil from underneath in the normal way. On many cars these days you need to get underneath anyway to adjust belts, remove filters etc etc.
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Thanks Aprilia - nice to know someone has actually used one ok.
the link I posted was indeed from a Boat Chandlery supplier,
unfortunately I don't have a pit but only intend to do oil changes - The BMW 6 cylinder oil filter is easily accessed from the top!
As you no doubt are aware the BMW service routine is oil change/ inspection 1 /oil change / inspection 2 and repeat.
So idealy I would do the oil changes (plus interim changes at 7500 miles as I think 15-16,000 as per my onboard computer is too long)and put the car into a trusted independent for the insp 1 and 2. and will do the same for my wife's MINI when it comes out of warranty next year.
regards
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Try a Forum search - top right for topsider
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I use one for 'intermediate' oil changes - nothing could be easier to use
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Not used one, but certainly there appears to be a sludging issue caused by vacuum extraction not getting out the remnants of old oil. The sludging can eventually clog up the oil filter with catastrophic results - blown engine, turbo etc. This is fact, not supposition. So although it sounds a good idea, in the long term it can cause seriously expensive problems - and may not manifest itself until the car is on it's second or third owner and out of the main dealer network.
My experience is with Saabs, so can't comment on other makes such as BMW would would doubt that it's any less of a problem. Personally I would avoid it like the plague.
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Not used one, but certainly there appears to be a sludging issue caused by vacuum extraction not getting out the remnants of old oil. The sludging can eventually clog up the oil filter with catastrophic results - blown engine, turbo etc.
This is fact, not supposition.
I do not know where your facts come from.
All the info I have seen seems to give the vacuum method the OK
Cars with no sump plug and of course boats do not seem to suffer.
I have seen a MB site where a comparison was made between drain or suck. This included sump removal. Draining was NOT as good as commonly thought.
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Why not cut a small square out of the cover shield where the drain plug is, I did this on the two c5 I have owned saves loads of time.
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Hate to tell you this but the reason they're sold in boatyards is that 99% of boats have no sump access. So the ONLY way to change the oil is via a suction pump. And boat engines normally die from lack of use not blowing up from dirty oil and are run much harder than you'd ever run a car on the road.
Jim
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'Not used one, but certainly there appears to be a sludging issue caused by vacuum extraction not getting out the remnants of old oil. The sludging can eventually clog up the oil filter with catastrophic results - blown engine, turbo etc. '
Perhaps why they also sell Soltron,see list on left after clicking first link.
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My experience is with Saabs
Which Saabs. OG9-3 and 9-5 suffer sludging as a result of the cat being directly under the sump in some engine variants.
Top extraction will not be helping as the drain can never be complete, but I do not believe it can be cited as root cause.
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My experience is with Saabs
Which Saab models?
OG9-3 and 9-5 models have a problem with sludging on some petrol engine variants as a result of the cat being directly below the sump on those (older) engines.
Whilst top extraction will not help as the sump can never be completely drained, I do not believe top extraction can be cited as root cause
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The vacuum unit doesn't completely drain the sump in most cars and doesn't evacuate the oil filter or eliminate the need to change the oil filter (which lets face it is a cheap and usually easily changed item).
Heron Service Stations used to offer a 'free oil change' in the 70's using such equipment and as a (student) employee of Heron many years ago I can only say 'steer clear at all costs'. Just my most humble opinion...
El Dingo.
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i use a pela extractor on my ml270 it works very well i understand most merc dealers use them,if you try on my motor to drain the oil it goes all over the place as it hits the front axle,works well on my mower engine as well.
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I bought myself a Pela 6000 a couple of weeks ago - £30 + P&P from the link below.
Very easy to use and going by the measure on the side of the tank it seemed to have removed the vast majority of the oil from the engine although whether it left any sludge behind I couldn't tell.
www.seamarknunn.co.uk/catalog/subcat473.htm
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I use one to do my own half-yearly oil change. Bought it in a boating suppliers. Easy to use and no mess. The car gets left in for an annual service where they do it the sump plug way.
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On a practical side how can slipping a plastic pipe down the dipstick pipe into the sump which is simply a metal box and hoping that you hit the bottom be as effective as removing a sump nut.
If your heating radiator at home needed flushing out it wouldnt work by using this method.
Yes it would remove much of the liquid but it wouldnt lift any sludge.
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>>If your heating radiator at home needed flushing out it wouldnt work by using this method.
Yes it would remove much of the liquid but it wouldnt lift any sludge.
Highly unlikely in either case,but doubt in the case of oil removal,there will be any sludge with the quality of oils now.and assuming the filter is doing its job
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Steve
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These are great pumps. End up getting mine from www.foxschandlery.com/oil-extractor as the guys above are now charging postage on every order so Fox's did not charge me as I also bought some tape to make up to £50 for free delivery! It came the very next day! Very Impressed! They also have some other models you can choose from.
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Oh! Btw here is the link to the actual product in the discussion.
www.foxschandlery.com/pela-6000-oil-extractor-6-li...p
www.amazon.co.uk/Pela-6000-Oil-Pump-Extraction/dp/...C
For other models from Pela Pumps here is their manufacturer website: www.pelapumps.co.uk/
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Of course I will be changing the filter as well - my real point is that that even if you put your car in the main dealer they use this top suction method (certainly in the BMW dealers) so unless YOU CAN get access and DIY the conventional way ( as I pointed out - not always possible) you might as well replicate the method the dealers use and save cost over time (and you know that the oil YOU put in is correct,!)
Of course in a perfect world I would have access to a fully fitted garage, hydraulic ramp,tooling,torque wrench, etc .....
I think the key is - change the oil frequently using manufacturers filter and the "sludge issue" won't arise, also fortunately I don't have to do many short runs and a lot of my 20K/year is done on the motorway.
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From
forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20416
A couple of postings.
I talked with my mechanic about it and he told me that when he started to use the topsider method he didn't believe it also. So he made the experience: used the topsider and after it he tried to pour any rest of oil from the bottom hole and believe it or not nothing come out.
....and...
M-B's are designed to have their oil sucked out of the dipstick tube. They've been this way for almost 20 years. Every M-B dealer I've been has a special machine to do it. This is also the reason that M-B oil filters don't come with the copper gasket for the oil pan drain plug.
I didn't believe that sucking out the oil was better at first, either. I tried it both ways on my SLK. On the first oil change, I sucked out all of the oil, then pulled the drain plug. Not one drop came out. On the second oil change, I pulled the drain plug, let it drip for 20 minutes, then I used my Topsider and sucked out another 6 ounces of old oil. There's no doubt in my mind which method is "better."
There are several cheap devices available to suck the oil from the dipstick tube. I use a Topsider because it's one of only 2 self-contained units I've seen that have a capacity of 8+ quarts and that's what you need for a M-B V6 or V8.
End of quotes
I seem to recall that the sump plug on my vehicles was on the side of the sump so all of the oil would certainly not drain out.
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I use one professionally where ever I can. Some cars simply dont work such as earlier VWs, Fiesta. First car I tried it on was an 1800 cavalier 8valve. Customer ,like me, was sceptical so when the unit had run dry I pulled the sump plug, not even a drop fell out. Then more by chance I loosened the oil filter with the plug still out and about a teacupful suddenly ran out so made a note to remove filter prior to removing device in future. M-B and BMW particularly good, newer Ecotec GM's, Zetec and a lot of Renaults work well too. Another bonus is that the device is effective at sucking the oil out of the (paper element) oil filter housings on later cars, oil that would normally be trapped only to contaminate the fresh oil.
Andrew
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Simplicate and add lightness!!
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I too have started to use this suction method on the familys cars that I end up servicing, due to the inaccessibility caused by the engine under trays. I have made my own up from a fuel injection petrol pump from a breakers. All fuel injected cars have one, usually located near the tank, so there are loads at breakers yards. They create a good vacuum on the suction side & run direct off the car 12v battery. I use an old bowden cable outer for the suction pipe & some plastic pipe into an empty 5l oil can. You have to use a bit of bodgery to marry up these pipes to the pump. I always used to drain the oil via the sump plug but have never found any sludge & as Andrew says, remove the filter while pumping.
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This is a good idea; I was reluctant to buy one (a professional type) but can see that they are a good idea.
My car has an oil and filter change every 10K and I replace the oil only every 5K. I can see this as a small project for me to do. If I can get hold of a small pump and some very small diameter tubing for the engine side, plus some for the outlet, all I will need is some crocodile clips and Hey Presto! An oil change in no time!
I doubt the whole thing will cost more than a tenner.
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My car has an oil and filter change every 10K and I replace the oil only every 5K.
What's the reasoning behind not changing the filter at 5k as well?
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I knew that this point would come up.
It's not so much a case of not changing the filter but more like doing an extra oil change.
If I remember correctly, years ago, cars were sometimes serviced like this with a filter change every other oil change.
I can see what you are asking but there are a couple of other points here:
(1) By changing the oil at 5K intervals, even if only 90% is changed it is better than nothing.
(2) The oil filter on my car is a right pain to get at, let alone change and no matter how you do it, a lot of oil goes everywhere. I know all the tricks (I think) to avoid this but cannot find a way around it. If the filter were much easier to replace, maybe I would change it but as I am doing something that is an 'extra' and better than nothing I'm happy with this practice.
The oil doesn't 'know' that the filter is not new, it, (the filter) has a life of 10K and I'm happy for it to be there for 10K. I know that the new oil will mix with the oil that remains in the filter but the engine will still retain some old oil anyway, even if you replaced the filter, so it's not as if the oil is being 100% changed. I actually 'bump' the car up and down a few times to get as much of the old oil out whilst it is draining so I suppose that 90% is removed.
The oil that remains in the filter will mix with the new oil but not 'contaminate' it. The oil that is in the engine will be a mix of 90% new and 10% old after I change the oil only. When you change oil and filter, at the most I would suggest that the proportions are more like 95% and 5%.
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Two posts in one night - a record for me.
Bought a PELA to change the oil in my Seat Leon diesel which is protected by a bottom engine cover.
This worked well and removed c5 litres of oil which is the sump capacity - I am only using this method as a half yearly change anyway with a filter also. No complaints.
Tried the same on a vectra 2.2 petrol - the tube stopped 2/3rds of the way down the dipstick and only took out about 2.5 litres of oil - again out of a nearly 5 litres maximum capacity - had to resort to the traditional method to drain the rest.
So - mixed results, however still happy as I can change the oil in the Leon quickly and cleanly without difficulty.
Steve
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Found a couple on eBay: Item numbers: 4588076931 & 4588336669 plus an oil extractor pump, item number: 8012512474
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This would appear to be a good-value 'clone' of the big Pela:
Item number: 4412882288
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Bought a Pela 600 when I bought the BMW 1 series which I susequently used on the Micra and Leon (only once). It worked brilliantly provided you drove about 4 miles before the change to warm the oil up and thin it down, even the 0w30 used in the BMW would not budge until sufficiently warm.
Think it came from Amazon.
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Havn't used one. Probably wouldn't pay 50 quid for one either but I might consider improvising something.
Some sumps aren't very well designed for conventional draining.
Mine, for example, has the sump plug in a castellated nut, which acts as a lip and strainer, retaining some oil (sludge?) in the sump as well as gasket and varnish fragments.
I know this because I took the sump off, but that's too much of a pain to do routinely on this and many other cars.
In such a case an extractor pump might well be superior,.
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I've used a Pela for a few years - got over 300,000 miles out of the car so I can't say it'll cause any problems.... oil filter was top mounted so oil changes were very easy.
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I run a removals company in Bristol and I must say that the pump is great to exchange the oil as this can be a very expensive cost over time when you travel on your car or van long distances. Never went to a garage after that for oil exchange as the cost was high. The reason I am using a Pela Pump when I could just drain the oil is that the washer can go bust by undoing it so many times. Great pumps and good value for money. I def. suggest them! I would suggest choosing the 6.5 litre one as it will make your life easier. The vacuum is much stronger than the small version (4 litre one) but is down to how much oil you have to drain from your engine.
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I would reiterate a previous suggestion to make a suitable hole in the undertray.
I would recommend that if you use top extraction, do a 'proper' change with a flush every third change.
Or do as I do and use caravan ramps to raise the front of the car a little. In conjunction with a hole would make life an awful lot easier
Like this: https://youtu.be/LFVTb9kwrOA
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I bought one of these:-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X66ndq9f3us&ab_channel...G
A month or so ago, I've used it a couple of times - absolutely brilliant, just like the ones I used to use in the marine trade to pump oil out of marine engines - but a lot cheaper.
I paid €12.50 for mine here in france - if it gets offered in the UK get one.
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