***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Vol 4 *****
As the title suggests, this thread is for all things Formula One and other general motorsport related stuff.
This is Volume 3.
Usual rules apply. When we get to around 100 posts, the thread will be locked and the next volume will start.
PLEASE NOTE
As with the IHAQ & the Computer threads, When posting a NEW topic, please "Reply to" the first message in this thread, i.e. this one. This keeps each topic in it's own separate segment and stops each new topic from getting mixed up in amongst existing topics. Also please remember to change the subject header.
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news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/43...m
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Re introducing tyre changing is the most significant change, might make it interesting again. Yes, it was good to have a new champ though the racing was not as good this year in general.
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Why do the Suzukis look like mid 90's CBR600's?
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new calender annaounced for 2006:
www.formula1.com/news/3771.html
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....and heading off to Red Bull.
This has to be seen as a major blow for McLaren, and a superb signing for Red Bull. It is my feeling (and not knowing Adrian at all!) that he may have become bored at McLaren and the chance to move to a new and exciting team like Red Bull where his designs will be noticed again must have been a major factor in his signing. In recent years I've felt that not a lot has been attibuted to Adrian, as the Merc engine has been the disappointing thing of the package. (and as I Ferrari fan for past 15 years that takes a lot for me to say!)
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Newey had what appears to be a major nervous breakdown some time ago. Rumour has it he has been kept at Mcclaren for a while to prevent leakage of screts, the same rumour mill (the pub outside Mcclaren at Woking) says Newey has not had much input into the current generation of cars.
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Spot some old names? Race live on MotorsTV at 1200 Sunday
BBC2 later in the afternoon. 600bhp, no traction control, small wings - hoping it will be an interesting race. Murray Walker commentating on BBC2. Brings back fond memories.
GRAND PRIX MASTERS - Qualifying - Overall Ranking
rank no. driver laps fastest lap
1 5 Mansell Nigel 9 1:33.428
2 7 Fittipaldi Emerson 14 1:33.998
3 6 Patrese Riccardo 12 1:34.048
4 9 Lammers Jan 14 1:34.082
5 22 De Cesaris Andrea 13 1:34.086
6 12 Warwick Derek 13 1:34.087
7 11 Danner Christian 9 1:34.132
8 17 Cheever Eddie 13 1:34.602
9 14 Stuck Hans-Joachim 7 1:34.755
10 2 Johansson Stefan 12 1:34.841
11 28 Arnoux Rene 8 1:35.453
12 27 Salazar Elisio 14 1:36.852
13 25 Tambay Patrick 9 1:36.948
14 26 Laffite Jacques 7 1:36.958
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Good old Murray.
"14 identical cars all in different colours"
"Nigel Mansell, holds the record for the most amount of F1 wins - apart from Schumaker and Senna"
--
RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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"Nigel Mansell, holds the record for the most amount of F1 wins - apart from Schumaker and Senna"
That's not even correct.
Did not see it though not much overtaking it seems.
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There was some overtaking towards the end actually, and Fittipaldi gave Noige a run for his money right the way through. At a more open/overtaking friendly circuit the series could be quite entertaining IMHO.
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Did you see how knackered Nige was at the end though? Almost had to be helped from his car.
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Nothing changes - he was the same 15 years ago.
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Watched the first 20 minutes of it.
Wasn't impressed. Nothing happened - no more passes or offs than in F1. I felt a little sorry for Murray Walker who was really struggling for things to say (more so than in F1).
I recognized most of the names, but thought huh? most of the time. A bit like watching a testemonial football match.
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"Watched the first 20 minutes of it. Wasn't impressed."
Unfortunately, they all tooled around for 20 laps before things got more exciting.
It could be quite good next year provided:
1. the drivers get a bit fitter and can therefore drive hard for the full 30 laps;
2. they race on a circuit that allows overtaking.....
Interesting that the only two really top class drivers to start(Fittipaldi & Mansell) were at the front. Not sure whether it tells us that they're still the best or whether it's to do with the competitive instinct.
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Anyone see the highlights from rally Australia? Petta Solberg (leading - Subaru)took a medium sized grey roo through the radiator at 100mph plus, one other driver took one into the drivers door. Colin McCrash was bringing the Skoda in on third when the team screwed up in service and they were out.
Dramatic stuff.
--
RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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Sad news.
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/world_rally/44...m
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It is very sad news and even more so in view of his age.
He was a superb, highly competitive driver and will be very much missed.
George Best offered similar great skills in his sport.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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I have just heard this, Richard was diagnosed with a brain disease a couple of years ago, I thought he was on the mend. By today's standards George best died young at 59 though Richard Burns was I think only 34!
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I saw this and I didn't think it was the Richard Burns.
Truly sad news.
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A very sad day in the world of motorsport. My deepest sympathy goes to Richards family and friends.
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In my view he was and woluld still be the best driver in rally motorsport.
He had that extra talent like George Best with football and will never be forgoten.
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I am shocked and saddened. I too thought he was on the mend. I met him at one of the pre RAC rally days (Cheltenham I think) and young RF has his autograph.
Not quite as flamboyant, excting and "on the edge" as Colin McCrash, he was none the less probably destined to be the UK's most successful rally driver.
Gutted.
--
RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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Sad news indeed; met him at the Autosport show a few years back and he was a thoroughly nice bloke.
I guess his passing will be entirely overshadowed by George Best, but we've lost a world champion here and we don't have too many of those.
--Lee .. sorry, the card says Moops.
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I guess his passing will be entirely overshadowed by George Best,
How Ironic that on the same weekend that George Best, a sad long term alcoholic waster is being hailed as a hero, with endless media coverage, a young Richard Burns, a gentleman and an English former World Champion leaves us with only brief mentions in the news.
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I totally agree with Doc.
Burns, in the prime of his life and world class at what he did meets fate far too soon. I have full symapthy with his family.
Offensive comments deleted - Have some respect for heaven's sake! - Hugo
Only the good die young, the evil live forever.
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Whatever Best did, he was a genius on the field an I think it's a bit insensitive calling him a loser given he's just died. Agreed, that's why I've taken it out
And that's coming from a Liverpool fan!
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and this too!
I am saddened by the death of Richard Burns. He was always interesting to watch and to listen to.
Deepest sympathy go to his family and friends.
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Perhaps now is not the time to discuss the late George Best's problems in the last few years of his life.
Those of you who watched the news yesterday will have seen George's son and father stand side by side thanking the public for their support over the last few months. His father went on to ask the press for some respect and space to allow the family to grieve as is their right.
I feel it's only fair that the BR also shows him and his family some respect right now.
I would however like to join all here in offering my sympathy to the family and friends of both Richard Burns and George Best. Each man made a significan contribution to his sport and should be remembered above all for the good they have done.
Hugo - BR Moderator
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Great driver and a nice bloke too.
RIP.
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Two forms of sport have lost a couple of their heroes,and we should respect that.
For those who wish to read more on Richards death,it can be found on the link below.I have already added my comments,and as a former rally co-driver myself,it saddens me to hear of Richards passing at such a young age.
RIP Mr.Burns.Motorsport is a great deal worse off,now you're not here.
Ken.
www.britishrally.com/forum2/forum_posts.asp?TID=21...3
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Just want to add my condolences to both families. I remember hearing that Richard Burns was seriously ill and being rather shocked by the news - like all the best rally drivers, he had great flair and talent, and always provided a sharp contrast to the tedium of F1.
As for Georgie Best, I think Hugo's reminder of what George's father said is the most appropriate comment here. The family were obviously grieving, so whatever the feelings of those who idolised him or pilloried him, all I'll say is that I hope their sense of loss can heal, and in private.
--
andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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The ITV News channel certainly had some coverage and video clips this afternoon. Good to see some recognition.
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A sad loss. He still had so much to give.
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I too wish to pass my condolences to both families.
Both Richard and George are a great loss to their sports.
Georges death as hard as it might be, in some way was self inflicted by his way of life and had a second chance for life.
Richards death was a great suprise to us all, after surgery in April, but he was not given a second chance for life.
Richard had so much to live for and will be missed by many.
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snipurl.com/kscf {Shortened link to The Telegraph sports page - DD}
"The 5.5-litre V12 engine delivers 650bhp between 3000rpm and 5000rpm, and produces 1100Nm of torque, nearly twice that of the 4.2-litre A8, one of the most powerful road-going diesels. The engine is all-aluminium but the engineers are still working to get the weight down to the minimum of 925kg."
I wonder if they're allowed to just keep going while everyone else stops for fuel? Do you think I could squeeze one in in place of my 1.9TDI?
John
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They can keep going as long as the fuel lasts I imagine, but will still have to stop for driver changes (we are talking about 24 hr races arn't we?)
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I think Sebring is a 12 hour race, but you are right about having to stop for driver changes.
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It will race at Le Mans
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Very sensible - one of the reasons the R8 was so successful was it had better fuel economy than the competition, introducing that FSI technology.
I´d put a few quid on a variation of this diesel engine appearing in their new Q7 suv monolith in the not too distant future!
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Others are also working on diesel engines for LM in 2006.
If anyone is interested in making the trip to Sebring in March to see the Audi debut drop me a mail - I've been 3 times and am now planning 2006. Likewise Le Mans (9 times + qualifying etc)
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Likewise Le Mans (9 times + qualifying etc)
I'm going to LeMan next year, already booked, maybe scope for a backroom LeMan meet!?
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....from 2007
www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=34707
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/45...m
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Vodafone only like to support winning teams eg: MUFC (oops) English cricket (oops) Ferrari (oops!). Should McLaren worry about what is clearly a jinx?
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One lean year(ferrari) is hardly a jinx.
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But that one lean year was enough for Mr Vodafone to take his pennies elsewhere wasn't it?
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Not really, it has far more to do with Marlboro extending their sponsorship of Ferrari and , therefore, scuppering Vodafone's plans to be title sponsor of Ferrari rather than the Scuderia's performance last year.
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news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/45...m
Veeeery interesting. Musical chairs started early?
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I assume that Alonso has been tipped off of Renault's withdrawl at the end of 2007. He's acted fast and sorted himself out. Predictions? Montoya to Ferrari. Raikkonen stays put. Schumacher retires. Hyundai buys Renault with Dave Richards/Prodrive running the show. Wildcard - Valentino Rossi goes to Red Bull for a year before replacing Massa in 2008.
--
let me be the last to let you down....
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certainly agree Montoya will be the one moving aside for alonso.
Raikenen and Alonso in same team? wooooooo dream team or what!
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Raikenen and Rossi are Ferrari's intended line up for 2007. Informed sources suggest that Ferrari have been playing down Rossi's lap times during testing, and that he is much faster than the press have been led to believe. Certainly the amount of testing they have let him do has not just been for fun.
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2007 predictions.
M Schu to McLaren with Vodafone sponsorship, Montoya may leave, to BMW or Honda, which would pave the way for Lewis Hamilton.
Raikonnen to Ferrari to partner Massa or possibly Rossi.
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Raikkonen will go to Ferrari IF Schumacher retires.If he doesn,t retire,then you will have Raikkonen and Alonso driving a Mclaren.An interesting scenario.I have spoken to a former work colleague who jumped ship to join Ferrari.According to him, Rossi has not done a great deal of testing and so far his pace is average.We will see.
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Raikkonen will go to Ferrari IF Schumacher retires.>>
Reckon Schu will go to McLaren along with the with Vodafone sponsorship.
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news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/4546338.stm
The sad death of Cosworth co-founder Keith Duckworth was reported today.
Any thoughts or comments?
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The DFV 3.0 V8 is a true icon, what greater legacy can an engine designer leave, no other race engine will ever have the same status, IIRC it won around 150 GPs, developments included the short stroke DFY, the Indycar tubocharged DFX and the endurance 3.3 and 3.9 DFL's. Of course the heads were based on a 4 cyl 4v/cyl design hence the name stood for "Double Four valve".
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www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005...l
Phil
{moved to current discussion on the subject. DD}
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Strange, isn't it, that many people outside this BR, or maybe in it, would say 'Keith who?', yet perhaps only Ferrari, Maclaren and Williams have had more presence in F1 than 'CosWORTH'
And that obituary - crashing whilst night flying at 18 - they just wouldn't let it happen these days
Go on, get out of the car...
www.mikes-walks.co.uk
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www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=35...7
>>Strange, isn't it, that many people outside this BR, or maybe in it, would say 'Keith who?', >>
Not me, His passing going virtually un-noticed not only in here but elsewhere is a tragedy too.
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Removed your comment Xileno, and for the benefit of any others who do not know who Keith Duckworth is, here is the first para from the obit.
"Keith Duckworth, who died on Sunday aged 72, was the outstanding racing engine designer of his generation."
smokie, BR Moderator
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Yes its sad to hear of Keith.
He was greatly involved in designing and developing the original Cosworth F1 engine. If it was'nt for him, Fords would not have had the Sierra Cosworth and teams like Lotus, Williams and many others may not be where they are today.
Who will be the next great F1 engine designer ??.
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Following a brief debut of the new Mercedes V8 engine, all of McLaren's testing since has been with a restricted V10. Is this the first sign of reliabilty/power issues with the new engine? Running a V10 can surely be of only limited use e.g tyre or component testing. At this stage in the game, the V8 should be getting some serious track mileage surely?
--
let me be the last to let you down....
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I had heard that a restricted V10 although nearly the same on power as a V8 has a torque advantage and is less stressed, therefore making up for the small weight penalty. Although the rule to allow restricted V10's was intended to help the likes of Minardi in such a competative sport if there is any sort of advantage the other teams will take it.
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I dont see why there has to be a cylinder limit. In the old days teams ran whatever config of engine they though best be that a V8, V10, V12, flat 12 or whatever. The only limit was cubic capacity, and all the cars sounded different. F1 is getting to be too homogenised, IMO
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The rule came in 1997 that all teams must run a V10, although it had already been the layout of choice in the 3.5l era (88-94) and 3.0l era (95-05)
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I see that there is some F1 testing scheduled at the end of April. Just wondering what the chances are of seeing Rossi take a car around Silverstone at this time - any ideas?
I understand that he has already tested during sessions at other tracks, so should I take a couple of days off work on the off chance?
Cheers
HV
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Where did you hear that ?
I would think that Rossi is going to be busy with his Camel Yamaha in April. Max Biaggi has been testing F1 at Silverstone for Midland (Toyota?). I would feel very sorry for poor Max if Rossi showed up in F1 also. I don't know if Max has signed a contract for F1 or WSB yet.
God only knows what F1 would make of Rossi's antics at the end of the race. Do you think he'll drive for a Honda team :-)
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I suspect he wont test again until a bit later in the year. There are a couple of MotoGP races set for April and I think he'll have to show a bit loyalty to Yamaha and concentrate on that for a while.
Rossi would be fantastic for F1. I have no doubt he would be competitive. Perhaps though, spending a learning year in a team other than Ferrari (Red Bull?) may be beneficial to all.
--
let me be the last to let you down....
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Think he was about 3 seconds off Scumacher´s pace in his last test in the 2004 ferrari.
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Valencia Testing Wed 1st Feb.
Schumacher - 1m 11.831 sec
Rossi- 1m 12.856 sec
Compare and consider time difference with total hours spent driving an F1 car.
--
let me be the last to let you down....
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Think he was about 3 seconds off Scumacher´s pace in his last test in the 2004 ferrari.
Got these figures from a bikers site today - hard to say much as no idea of set up etc. Apparently Rossi was in a detuned 2004 car. Figures are from testing last week.
Food for thought at the very least!
01 F. Alonso Renault 1:11.219 52 laps
02 J. Button Honda 1:11.327 89 laps
03 M. Schumacher Ferrari 1:11.831 72 laps
04 JP. Montoya McLaren 1:11.998 68 laps
05 R. Barrichello Honda 1:12.062 112 laps
06 H. Kovalainen Renault 1:12.113 29 laps
07 J. Villeneuve BMW 1:12.619 78 laps
08 R. Zonta Toyota 1:12.660 88 laps
09 V. Rossi Ferrari 1:12.856 52 laps
10 D. Coulthard Red Bull 1:12.930 36 laps
11 A. Wurz Williams 1:12.925 82 laps
12 G. Paffett McLaren 1:12.937 116 laps
13 M. Webber Williams 1:13.050 67 laps
14 J. Trulli Toyota 1:13.076 105 laps
15 R. Kubica BMW 1:13.332 65 laps
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I think he's in the restricted car to emulate the V8's coming along??
Although familiar with the Valencia circuit on two wheels, Rossi had a far from excellent first day, spinning off after ten corners before the test was suspended due to poor weather. Yesterday he fared better, putting in a respectable 1´12.856 lap to place him ninth. Today he improved still further during his 54 laps in the depotencialised V10 Ferrari, especially when you compare his 1´12?316 lap with ?teammate? Felipe Massa´s time in the V8 version, 1´12?1. Official times placed him 1.4 seconds off fastest driver Fernando Alonso.
Rossi did however make it clear that after the diversion of the day´s tests he was now channelling his commitments fully towards preseason preparation for MotoGP with Yamaha.
?It is satisfying, but now comes the turn of the bike, which is my priority for this year. I must focus on the MotoGP World Championship, just like Ferrari must focus on their Championship? Rossi now heads to Losail for the Qatar Test.
www.motogp.com/en/motogp/news_info/news_info_15951...s
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Biaggi was up for a ride in the WSB with Alstare Suzuki, this has fallen through because he was after guarantees of equal machinery with Troy Corser, the current champ, whic were not forthcoming.
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Today's Autosport, analysing Rossi's times gives a figure for fair comparison of 0.6 sec per lap slower than Schumacher. This takes into account the model and engine of the Ferrari used, also fuel loads and set up.
The man is a genius.
--
let me be the last to let you down....
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Gerhard Berger is buying 50% of the Torro Rosso team nee' Minardi though now a junior team to Red Bull Racing nee' Jaguar.
He must love his F1.
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PARIS -- The Belgian Grand Prix was dropped from this year's Formula One schedule but might be restored in 2007 once improvements are made to the course.
The Spa-Francorchamps is one of the most venerated tracks but attendance slipped last year to 50,000, half of what it was a decade ago.
Motor racing's governing body made no mention of financial troubles in announcing the move Wednesday. Without the Sept. 17 event, the 2006 schedule will be cut to 18 races.
The ruling body said it dropped the race so "extensive improvement" could be completed on the course but hopes it will be included on the 2007 calendar.
The race has been in jeopardy since local organizers filed for bankruptcy last year, forcing the regional government to cover mounting losses. Belgian officials wanted Formula One's commercial director Bernie Ecclestone to become the race promoter.
(Associated Press)
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I've read in the press that the f1 teams are out testing at silverstone on the 27th and 28th, does anyone here know if joe public can just turn up to spectate or do you need to buy a ticket in advance? - if so any idea how much?
Tried www.silverstone-circuit.co.uk but they just want to sell me a hospitality suite ...
Many thanks in advance for any replies.
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I went a couple of years ago. No charge to get in and 8 hours worth of F1 (including a 1 hour lunchbreak). To be honest, it got a bit boring after a while(!), but it was great value for money.
All the cars were running in "Smoke Fags" liveries which you won't see at the GP here and I sat in the grandstand directly opposite the Ferrari pit. Just before lunch, the Schumeister stood on the pit wall and waved at the spectators and the place erupted.
I wouldn't mind going again but something at the back of my mind tells me that they might charge now because it is better value than going to the race! Have a google for Silverstone and you'll find their website. It may say there or a BR who has been recently might have more up to date info.
One thing - they didn't let us go anywhere other than in the main grandstands on the start finish straight and the grandstands on the outside of the complex (Luffield?).
It's also a good chance to see the stars of tomorrow as most of the teams take their test drivers.
If you go, please post a report!
Cheers,
CM
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Thanks CM, I was thinking of going along with a lad from work as were both car nuts and off for a long weekend. Looks like if I take my own sandwiches the only cost will be half the diesel there and back - bargin!
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Just had a look in the Silverstone site and the only mention of the test days is a package, to the tune of £90. But you do get to sit in the Brooklands hospitality suite and eat sandwiches. Bargain?
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Yes, not bad I suppose - what's the same for the GP?! Much better to be in the great outdoors listening to those whining V8s and V10s though. When I went, the McLarens sounded dreadful when their traction control cut in going through the complex.
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I am planning to pop down on the 28th. The teams will be trying to get as much track time as possible with the new engines and I hear the ferraris are in deep trouble with reliability so they will be there.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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