I could be wrong, but IIRC Honda DO cover brake discs against warping under warranty.
Blue
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Firstly the problem was more or less identified before the car was taken in, and how long would it have taken to remove two wheels and check the discs? Worst of all, after suggesting it might be covered under warranty, the dealer should have confirmed that before the car was looked at. Personally, I would have checked that before taking the car in.
I also don't see why the brake discs wouldn't be covered under warranty. I had the front brake discs of a ZX replaced in the second year of ownership, from new, and they were covered by the warranty.
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Generally Toyota policy is to skim discs once to try to remove the warping, if that fails they are replaced. This is for cars that are still within the warranty period providing it is not evident that the brakes have been misused.
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Apart from what Aprilia said,toyota will not replace warped discs.they may skim them (which is going to weaken them due to being made thinner)which means as soon as you hard brake in a puddle/flood they distort even faster ie sudden cooling of disc distorts
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Steve
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But Blue_Haddock used to work for Toyota.
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But Blue_Haddock used to work for Toyota.
Not Honda,And I was not saying Blue_Haddock was incorrect,only the method was wrong.ie discs should be replaced when distorted.rather than skimmed
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Steve
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Sorry Steve, I never read the thread properly. I'm tired and am going to bed right after I've said;
I agree though - I'm not happy about the idea of skimming discs either.
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discs should be replaced when distorted.rather than skimmed
Yes they SHOULD be replaced but skimming costs the dealer nothing apart from time - a lot cheaper than a pair of new discs!
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Surely its:
Skimming disks takes longer, so more warranty cost (labour) can be reclaimed from the manufacturer?
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Possibly RF - also the skim machine takes a couple of minutes to set up and then can pretty much be left to do it's own thing, whilst it's doing this the tech can be working on another vehicle which is also being charged labour for - two jobs done at the same time and both charged for!
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Machika gets the jist of it, spot on.
I had already diagnosed the problem and remedy.
I was duped into "at least giving it a try" to get work done under warranty.
They then told me the flippin' obvious and charged £41 for the privelege.
It's a rip off alright and I firmly believe that I would have had a bill nearer £500 as they suggested the back discs may be a problem as well........
No better than the tyre and exhaust places where you ask for one tyre and put the (unused) spare on, to be told after a 'routine' inspection that you need 4 new tyres, pads, shoes, your exhaust is holed and two shocks are leaking.
Cowboys abound in the motor industry at every level, and I will certainly be telling Honda UK Customer Services about this particular ranch tomorrow.
I will let you know the outcome.
Woody.
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A bit of logic needs to be applied here. If the warranty covers brakes then our man should not have been charged and should have had the whole problem fixed FOC.
If the warranty doesn't cover brakes then the dealer is perfectly correct to charge. He went to the dealer expecting them to do some work (i.e. investigate brake judder) and if brakes are not a warranty item then it seems reasonable that the dealer should make a charge for the time spent.
If the problem had already been diagnosed then the best course of action would have been a phone call to the dealer asking if this problem would be covered under warranty.
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As I understand it the dealer led him to believe that he could get the brakes repaired under warranty, then after getting the car in, stated the obvious "brakes not covered" and here is our bill for telling you what we both already knew.
The dealer didn't break any laws and of course no-one expects to work for free, but they shouldn't have lured him in under the pretense of free warranty work.
Write off the £40 as experience and yet another reason to go with your first instinct.
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Aprilia doesn't seem to get the point, but others have stated it perfectly.
I didn't need a diagnosis of the blindingly obvious.
I was duped into taking the car in and charged for unnecessary 'labour' on the basis of a 'possible warranty claim' that was never going to be.
If Aprilia think's that is acceptable then I must assume he/she owns a main dealership somewhere.
Anyway, Honda Customer Services took a dim view of such underhand practice and are seeking re-imbursement from the dealer. I also want £70 "labour" for the complete waste of an hour's time they put my wife through. WHEN I get it, I will give the £70 to charity (NSPCC).
Woody
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Glad to hear the good news Woody. I hope all goes to plan.
I had an experience with Citroen last year, where I reported uneven wear on the rear tyres, which was caused by a known problem with the rear axle beam. The dealer said that Citroen wouldn't consider a claim on a car with over 20K miles, even though it was still within warranty. A phone call to Citroen UK did get them moving in the end.
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Woody - you asked for an opinion and were lucky to get a few, including Aprilia's. In my experience, Aprilia is one of the most useful and reliable contributors to the BR, particularly on technical matters, and has simply stated the other side of the discussion, in a reasoned way. And yes, he does work (or has worked) in the industry.
Just because you don't hear the answer you want there is no need to go on the offensive.
smokie, BR Moderator
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It explains why so many, including me, are scared stiff of main dealers.
We bought the Honda CRV after suffering for 2 years with a Freelander TD4 and a dealer who seemed to think it their right to milk customers of money in return for a shoddy third rate product supplied with surly disrespect and a helping of arrogance. A 24,000 mile service coming in at £550 was the final straw.
Owning a Honda has been a pleasant experience until now, but this episode shows they are all at it.
The 3 year warranty is not progress. It just gives the dealer licence to screw customers for longer.
The answer must be to buy a 3 year old car and have it looked after by a competent private mechanic.
I also know for a fact that a lack of a main dealer service history does not effect the real value of a trade in - because it will have a full history within days of arrival. Know what I mean :)
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>>It explains why so many, including me, are scared stiff of main dealers.
if the question had have been asked (when taking motor in)or phoning to find out before hand,whether it was a warranty job in the first place.suspect this thread may not have been made
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Steve
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Yes, the question should have been asked but, equally, the dealer should have checked and provided the answer, having suggested it might be a warranty item, before taking the car in.
It is a what I now do, whenever I have a car covered by a warranty, before I agree to any work being undertaken. However, I have taken in cars with a perceived problem, after they have been serviced, and I don't expect to be charged every time my car is taken in to be checked if it has been left with a problem or not. It happened recently with our C5, when the condensation from the air con began leaking out from sundry places underneath the car, where it had never appeared before. This was just after the air con had been serviced.
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>>the dealer should have checked and provided the answer,
dealer does not have to do this,its the car owners responsability to check whether its under warranty-ie ask,should be explained in terms and conditions of warranty.Not assumed
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Steve
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I am no friend of main dealers. IMHO most of them charge the customer too much and pay the technician too little (and often provide the minimum of staff training).
However.... I have been on the other side of the fence. Customer comes in and says his brake disks are warped and he gets judder on braking. Are you sure, I ask? Yes, says customer.
I take car out on to the road and sure enough there is judder on braking, but pedal doesn't feel too bad. I get car on ramps and pull the wheels off. Disks don't look too bad, but I find a couple of split/soft suspension rubbers, worn ball joint etc etc. If I had a pound for every faulty 'diagnosis' from a customer then I'd be retired by now.
If you were so sure of warped discs then why not ring the dealer and ask if warped discs were covered under warranty? That would save a trip and a lot of time.
When going into any garage, main dealer or otherwise, in-warranty or otherwise, then always ask if there is likely to be a charge and preferably get it in writing.
BTW - if you think main dealers are expensive my elderly uncle had a blocked drain cleared last week. Plumber spent two hours at the job and charged £550+VAT; another plumber quoted over £600 - makes main dealers look like a charity!
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Gordon Bennett!
I was certain it was brake discs required and was told that the discs might well be covered under the warranty. That is the sole reason I took it in.
They said bring it in "because you have nothing to loose".
I lost £41, could have lost £280 (or £170 excess over competent mechanics charge) or, as I firmly belive would have happened, been charged nearer £500 for front and back.
Justifying main dealer cons by saying plumbers and drain cleaners are worse is (a) dodgy maths if you have ever owned a Land Rover and (b) comparing mugging to being held at gun point - neither are remotely justified.
Will let you know the final outcome.
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Justifying main dealer cons by saying plumbers and drain cleaners are worse is (a) dodgy maths if you have ever owned a Land Rover and (b) comparing mugging to being held at gun point - neither are remotely justified. Will let you know the final outcome.
I wasn't justifying anything really - I'm just totally gobsmacked at the amount plumbers charged these days and feel sorry for my uncle who is not particularly well off. My next door neighbour is/was a plumber and has just retired at the age of about 45 and bought a country property with a couple of horses for his kids! Welcome to the 'knowledge economy'...
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I wasn't justifying anything really - I'm just totally gobsmacked at the amount plumbers charged these days and feel sorry for my uncle who is not particularly well off. My next door neighbour is/was a plumber and has just retired at the age of about 45 and bought a country property with a couple of horses for his kids! Welcome to the 'knowledge economy'...
Your uncle should have asked for a quote. The amount charged was totally unjustified.
Two years ago the labour charge for our shower room/toilet to be totally refurbished and hall tiled, was around £1000. The plumber who did it was known to us but we still asked for a quote before agreeing the work.
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Your uncle should have asked for a quote. The amount charged was totally unjustified. Two years ago the labour charge for our shower room/toilet to be totally refurbished and hall tiled, was around £1000. The plumber who did it was known to us but we still asked for a quote before agreeing the work.
He got three quotes - they all wanted around this price. He lives in a very rural area with a fair population of affluent older folk. The prices charged by local tradespeople are astonishing.
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He got three quotes - they all wanted around this price. He lives in a very rural area with a fair population of affluent older folk. The prices charged by local tradespeople are astonishing.
Isn't there a regulatory body that deals with extortionate charges like this?
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>>If I had a pound for every faulty 'diagnosis' from a customer then I'd be retired by now.
I am in absolute agreement with this point. I think that customers should always be listened to, but not necessarily believed or trusted; they can be bigger sharks than the dealers and mechanics they so often whinge about.
Some customers do know what they are talking about, but in my experience, not many!
Number_Cruncher
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>>If I had a pound for every faulty 'diagnosis' from a customer then I'd be retired by now. I am in absolute agreement with this point. I think that customers should always be listened to, but not necessarily believed or trusted; they can be bigger sharks than the dealers and mechanics they so often whinge about. Some customers do know what they are talking about, but in my experience, not many! Number_Cruncher
The other thing that always amused me when we had the garage was the number of customers who didn't know what was wrong with their car, but knew it wouldn't cost much to fix!
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A month on this issue is still not resolved.
I have phoned Honda UK's "Customer Services" (ho, ho) SIX times now and each time they agree it is shocking and arrange for the dealer to contact me and put things right. They simply don't ring.
I have totally lost faith in Honda, a manufacturer I really thought was a cut above most of the others, but alas they are just the same.
As soon as Toyota stretch the RAV4 a bit they have a new customer.
deleted of deleted, you are a disgrace. {No naming - shaming. Thankyou. DD}
Woody
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Woody,
Could be worth visiting the dealer and ask for the dealer principal failing that a word in the ear of trading standards wouldn't go a miss.
Hope it works out for you.
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If you search there will be a 'rip-off' story for practically every manufacturer somewhere in these forums. For example, I know you're also considering Audi - a few wks ago somebody on here was fuming about paying £157 for an oil change on an A4. Yet he didn't ask the price - just booked it in and then complained later.
I had a problem with the way our Jazz was handed over and I complained about it when Honda did a customer satisfaction survey. I got an unbelievably grovelling apology from the dealer, and a free 1st year service.
I'm sure that if you get to the right person, either at the dealer, or at Honda, then they'll say it's all a terrible mistake and give you your money back. 'Wife in tears' would be a useful argument.
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If you search there will be a 'rip-off' story for practically every manufacturer somewhere in these forums. For example, I know you're also considering Audi - a few wks ago somebody on here was fuming about paying £157 for an oil change on an A4.
Christ ! I wish I could get an oil-change done on my A4 for £157 !!
Even after shopping around the best I could do is £256, and I had to drive 90 miles for this !
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Christ ! I wish I could get an oil-change done on my A4 for £157 !!
Even after shopping around the best I could do is £256, and I had to drive 90 miles for this !
4 litres of Castrol SLX11 £32, filter £ 5.18 + VAT = £43.68. So this makes the labour £212 32 just to change the oil.
Yes this is a main dealer rip off.
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