I'm sorry if this has been covered before.
My daughter has a 1994 306D Turbo with 161000 on clock.
The heater stopped blowing hot air last week and then on Friday the temp gauge went up to 100 instead of running at mid 70s. As we didnt want to risk her breaking down we took it to the garage yesterday and they have said that a lot of air had got into the system - they removed air and more air got back in.
They reckon it is the head gasket and quoted around £500. Daughter in a real state as its her first car and cant afford new car or major repairs. Today we ran car engine whilst stationery. Temp seemed OK but heaters not working. Has anybody any idea of anything else it could be apart from head gasket. Oil hasnt any white deposits and not throwing out white smoke from exhaust.
If the problem is simpler than head gasket it would be really good. The car runs fine when driving.
Look forward to hearing from anyway who can help.
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Sounds like minor seepage from a combustion pot to the waterway you could have the head bolts undone and re-tightened to the spec, you will be surprised how loose they can become. However this may only be a short term fix or even break a bolt doing it up put I’ve sealed several heads this was as long as it is only a seep and the head, and or the gasket, has not been etched by the high pressure gases.Grude but has been effective on both diesels and petrols. Regards Peter
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£500 is very expensive for a head gasket job, No chance you could do it yourself? Its quite easy.
If not then I would start ringing around. Should be able to get it sorted for under £300.
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It does sound a lot like the head gasket. 3 simple tests: leave engine to go cold, remove cap and listen for a hiss; start engine and look into the radiator for lots of small bubbles; replace the cap and run the engine for another minute or so, switch off and then remove the cap, again listening for a hiss. Answer yes to any of the above and it's pretty conclusive head gasket. The Pug TD engine rarely loses water to oil or vice-versa when the HG goes, almost always air to water.
There is another possibility though...if it is losing the water by chucking it out the rad cap, it might be the water pump inlet hose collapsing. Feel along the hose, and if it feels very squidgy, and the water is leaving via the cap, it might be worth changing this hose first.
Taking the head off one of these engines is a pain - it's about 10 hours work to get it off and on. Add to this gaskets, bolts, antifreeze; and a probable head skim; and you will easily be looking at the thick end of £500 - more than a 160k car will be worth by a good margin I'd have thought.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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I would first go with richard, if the head gasket has gone then there is a very good chance you will see bubbles in the shunt bottle.
You said that you were getting air in the system, are you actually losing any coolant?
When the garage re-filled the system did that bleed it correctly? the bleed screw for the heater matrix is higher than the fill point on the bottle, simple laws of physics say water will not flow freely up hill.
Are the heater lines to the heater matrix getting hot?
If they are then it might just be a blocked heater matrix?
Check these out then let us know.
FYI: replacing a head gasket on one of these is a right pain, but not impossible, the hardest bit I find is getting the dam covers off the cam belt!
Laters
H
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Thanks for all your replies.
It seems as if hm (H) might have given the answer,
I took the car to someone else for a second opinion today and after refilling the rad again and letting more air out from somewhere, the heater is now working and temp seems OK.
He suggests to use car and see how I get on. If problem reoccurs then head gasket is the cause but I'm keeping my fingers crossed (and hopefully my cheque book closed) for the moment.
Jackie
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Check the water level every day - the first lot of water went somewhere to allow the level to drop! The bottom edge of the radiator is a favourite on these.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Hi There
There seems to be a lot on this site about head gasket and coolant problems on 306 TDs and I'm no exception!
I have a 1994 306 1.9 XRDT with 150k on the clock and a month or so ago I started encountering high coolant pressure which was forcing coolant out of the top of the tank. Also ran engine with tank cap off and saw bubbles which is a symptom of gasket grief. Car drives fine otherwise other than making a racket when starting from cold and doesn't overheat at all. Various people on this site have said head gasket due to the high pressure.
However 3 weeks ago I bled the cooling system myself by opening the 3 bleed screws and topping the system up with a header tank to purge out trapped air. This seems to have helped a great deal and now I'm losing very little coolant but still having quite high pressure. Have done 2000 miles in that time as I commute 130 miles a day 5 times a week from Plymouth to Tiverton on the M5, and the problem doesn't seem to have got any worse (fingers crossed)!
All I'm gonna do is see how it goes and if it gets much worse I can get a 2nd hand engine supplied and fitted for £500 (including cambelt, oil, filters etc) from a scrapyard in Plymouth.
A head gasket change is quite expensive- between £400 and £500- even more if the head needs skimming or if it is cracked.
All I can say is keep an eye on the temp guage and coolant level for now and see how you go.
Good Luck
Martin
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I suggest you look at my suggestion and do as it suggests before the gasket lets go and damages the head. For one hours work and maybe a rocker cover gasket your car could live on for another 100k. Keeping an eye on it does not stop the hot gas erosion at these pressures and the rate of deteriation can be very rapid. Regards Peter
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Peter could you please explain to me what a rocker cover gasket is and where abouts it is located as I'm not quite sure. I've looked in the Haynes manual for this engine and I can't see it mentioned anywhere unless I'm mistaken. I take it is quite easy to get to if it's only one hours work along with tightening the head bolts.
Regards
Martin
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It could not be much clearer ar the Rocker Cover or Cam Cover if you prefer has to be removed to get at the head bolts. Before you ask yes they are right hand threads. Regards Peter
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Sorry, but if you have to ask this question, I would suggest that get somebody else to do the job of tightening checking head bolts.
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pmh (was peter)
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I've just bought one of these, and failed to notice the warning sign (pressure in the coolant when cold) when I checked it over. The car still runs just fine, as long as I bleed the system religiously every couple of journeys... And decided to leak coolant into the heater matrix briefly on the last trip (presumably the high pressures forced it out).
So I guess it needs a new head gasket - I'm quite happy to get this sorted, even for £500+ or so, I like the car enough. Similar 306TD's in my area cost £800+ so that's well below replacement cost.
I'm just a little concerned in case a gasket+skim isn't enough - presumably there's a reason why it went in the first place? Is there a way to tell if its just the gasket, or if the whole head's cracked and needs replacing, without taking the thing off and investing lots of money? The coolant system works fine apart from the pressurisation, thermostat checks out, radiator gets warm, coolant flowed through all points when I changed it while working out what was wrong. I haven't let it overheat, luckily the weather recently has been helping me out.
So yeah: Is it likely to be just(!) the head gasket, or what are the odds of expecting more?
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anoddlad
If yours it a TD; then the chances are it's cracked the head behind the pre-combustion chambers. Depending on use, they seemed to go about every 80K - quite interesting that the OP's one had done 161K, bang-on for #2. The non-turbo ones went on for..... nearly ever.
At the very least send the head to a head-shop for pressure-testing. Better would be a good exchange head - with a warranty covering labour if it's duff. They were rocking horse whatsits years ago; but the supply/demand equation must have turned around now.
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Theres plenty of these PSA 1.9 TD & NA lumps in the scrapyard through accident damage so finding a good head shouldnt be a problem if the original ones scrap.
Stick a cambelt kit on at the same time when you rebuild it.
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Same thing happened to my buddy's P reg 306Turbo. I gave similar advice, but when the garage took off the head they detected some play in a piston, and recommended a secondhand engine as a cheaper solution.
Garage got an engine from breaker local to Stoke on Trent, and put it in after renewing clutch and cambelt, on my suggestion. Alas the engine was apparently worse for boiling over than the one replaced, and the garage removed the engine, swopped the clutch and cambelt, and fitted another engine. Same result
I did have a good non-turbo unit in my "spare" 309, and offered that as a transplant. The garage were reluctant to do this, suggesting that the unit would not be able to accept the keypad immobiliser. I suggested that they just left this off, and it would still run.
He told them to replace the head with new gasket and bolts, and he would trade it in. It boiled over in 4 miles.
Garage were good about it, and only charged him £200
Result is that the 306 has stood for 6 weeks, the daughter has gone and bought herself another car, and the car (good condition) is now dumped at my house waiting for the scrap man.
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The keypad or transponder immobiliser only locks the fuel pump on the diesels. Swop the fuel pump over on to the good lump if you want to keep the immobiliser working ( make sure the make of fuel system is the same )
Or keep original fuel pump on good lump
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Yup. I suggested the latter, but now I have a dead 306 in the back yard!
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Cant you Ebay it off for spares / repairs buyer collects?
Theres plenty of good 1.9 TD lumps in accident damaged cars that could be dropped in.
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Replaced the engine in my 1994 306TD with one from an accident damaged 306td after it was my turn for the dreaded head gasket failure two years ago (see my earlier post on this thread). Cost me £550 inc fitting, new cambelt, filters, oil etc. Engine now has 143k on the clock, the original engine started showing signs of head gasket failure at around 145k so I'm just waiting for a repeat performance. Which this time will send the old girl to the place in the sky as it's worth so little in its teenage years and nearly 190k on the dial.
Martin
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190K is nothing for a 306 TD, Ive seen them with much more then that on in the scrapyard & its always been accident damage that has killed it off.
Stick it on Ebay when you want rid & someone will have it off you ;-)
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190K is nothing for a 306 TD, Ive seen them with much more then that on in the scrapyard & its always been accident damage that has killed it off.
XUD (and most other) high mileage head gasket problems are almost always attributable to corrosion around the water passages accross the head/block face. If coolant inhibitors/regular changes are observed, the problems just do not present.
Trouble is that early owners are not motivated to do this for our benefit!
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XUD head gasket failures to me seem more common in 306 TDs than other cars with the same engine i.e ZX, 309, 405, 406, Xantia etc and marr what is an otherwise lovely engine. The problem also seems to occur more in Phase 1 306s i.e. up to 1996 than the later ones from late 96 onwards. Maybe they fitted a different type of gasket to the later ones. The engine in my 94 306 is from a late 1996 car, so fingers crossed I may be ok. True to say that infrequent coolant changes contribute to head gasket failures.
Martin
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