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Not long I would say. I had the very same thought when I read the news this weekend.
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PU - I only heard it on the radio briefly so I'd be grateful if you could point me in the direction of any articles on this.
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/4048371.stm
I think I read it in the Telegraph. But this link has the news. Looks as if its Twojags' Office.
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Given the state of the wiring in this house when I bought it (the whole upstairs, lights and sockets, on a spur from the ground floor) I'd say it's a good thing.
Safety-critical repairs on vehicles are already subject to inspection at MOT time, though how useful that inspection is is a matter of opinion.
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Given the state of the wiring in this house when I bought it (the whole upstairs, lights and sockets, on a spur from the ground floor) I'd say it's a good thing. My first house had original totally unmodified 1930 wiring.
No power sockets at at all. Absolutely untouched VIR rubber insulation for 35 years and deadly.
When I saw the efforts of the old DIY bodger next door I shuddered. He had a fixed extention lead with a plug on each end!!!!. Other efforts were just as bad.
Student daughters rented flats, in the very best part of Notting Hill, were also deadly.
I think it would be much better if insurance companies insisted on a check when a household policy is taken out.
IIRC in Australia ONLY electricians and plumbers can do those trades in your house. I think it was more to do with union power.
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How are they going to know anyway? I'm sure it won't be long before some dodgy firm sets up a certification service so you can pretend the work was inspected. If any problems occur then the firm can be dissolved....
I think most cars are unroadworthy as the owners don't do anything to them. A small minority will be because the owners are incompetant mechanics. Bearing in mind the recent reports on the quality of garage services I think there is an equal likelihood of a car being rendered unroadworthy by either an incompetant diy-er or an incompetant garage. The latter will have liability insurance and you can sue but it doesn't help if you're 6 foot under because of someone else's incompetance. Perhaps some minimum guidelines for a service should be laid down eg brakes must be checked whenever the car is in for a service regardless of manufacturers recommendations. Ditto tyre condition. When someone takes their car for a service they assume these important safety items are checked but mostly they aren't. With extended service intervals brakes etc might not be checked for 2 years or more which to me is pretty scandalous.
We could of course make basic mechanical skills a prerequisite of owning and driving a car. Those that can't recognise duff brakes or check oil levels will not be allowed to have a car :-)
teabelly
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Expect more and more state bans over the coming years, the ones we see at the moment are just to get us used to them.
The only reason I do DIY is that the standard from the 'professionals' is often so poor and overpriced.
If the government really wanted to do what they say, they would make it a crime to do a bad job, and it would apply to tradespeople or DIYers, but instead they always ban inanimate objects and never deal with the people who are at fault.
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So, people who try to improve their wiring will face restrictions and certification requirements.
People who just think sod that and leave it in a dangerous state will be fine.
I am sure that this will happen to cars. And instead of people repairing their own brakes, and some of them getting it wrong, we'll ensure that virtually nobody bothers to repair their brakes. Smart.
Yet another example of a government unable to see further than its [admittedly large] nose.
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We need to think (as a people) more like the French. In a country where they have more regulations/rules/laws/red tape than grains of sand on the beach, the population (with semi official backing) ignore those that are inconvenient at any one time or situation, and abide by those that are advantageous at any time/situation. Its almost like Pick and mix, enough sweets of various colours and flavours to suit the tastes of all the population
(usually it has to be said to the detriment of anyone who is not a French born French Speaking citizen)
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I am going to be soooooooooooo naughty. I will be re-wring the barn over the Christmas hols. Don't tell Mr Prescott will you !
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FYI endless discussion on the ramifications of Part P; and the impending legislation on condensing gas boilers, can be found over on the uk.d-i-y newsgroup.
Personally I'm baffled as to how anyone is going to know whether I re-wire my kitchen on 31st December 2004 or 1st January 2005, particularly as wiring in the new colours is already available; and I've stocked up about 10 years worth of cable in the old colours anyway!
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Yet another example of a government unable to see further than its [admittedly large] nose.
It coukd be that. But it could also be the result of some rathyer successful self-interested lobbying by those in the relevant trades.
(I have no evidence either way on whether that has happenred; I'm just noting that it's folks in the trade who will be the prime beneficiaries from this sort of thing).
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My girlfriend is from Spain, and she says that over there, any MOT (whatever it's called there) failures have to be rectified by a mechanic - you're not allowed to do it yourself. You have to prove this when it comes to the next MOT.
Now I tried to question this, but in so doing the conversation stayed on cars for more than the permitted eight seconds, and her concentration wandered off, so I didn't get an answer.
Anyone know if it's true?
-Mark
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I am going to be unpopular here, as I am in favour of any new electrical installation being certified by qualified electrician. I wonder if any of you Backroomers would be happy to buy a house, where the electrical installation hadn't been installed properly? The problem with electricity is, that it is often a killer before anyone knows there is anything wrong.
I have personal experience of a connection being made to an airbath being done by a plumber, which was left with a fault that caused a fuse to blow, where it could have led to more serious implications. In addition, I am not sure that enough is done to ensure that existing installations are up to scratch.
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The way I read it some months ago was that the electrical work had to be done by a certified electrician or if DIY work was done then the council building inspector had to certify it - not some leccy signing it off.
Martin
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That's what I understood as well. What scares me is that LAs may see this an income generation issue and bill you to have it signed off.
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I think No Wheels is right to suggest that trade lobbyists may be behind this - the similar law, already in place, for double glazing installations is highly dubious in my view.
One common factor is that there are rogue elements in all of these trades - this new law will not deal with them at all, if anything, it will make operation more easy for them.
I would be much happier if;
a) we were going to be subject to fewer laws rather than more (only the vested interest groups and the legal profession get anything out of them). Of course, the Sir Humphreys will never take kindly to a reduction in the burden of law.
and
b) in this case, I would rather see the time, money, and effort spent in getting this law in place and policed going into running subsidised FE courses to enable people to do DIY more safely and more competently.
I suppose, the irony is that, as I have older qualifications, not NVQs, I probably would be disbarred from changing my car's oil & filter under the law if it were applied to motor cars - I'll have to think very carefully about that if and when it comes up! :-)
number_cruncher
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I cannot possibly see how the new DIY Electrical Wiring law will ever be enforced.
The only possible and ultimate way would be to restrict the sale of items connected with electrical wiring, which would mean that B&Q and many other stores would have to remove a hell of a lot of products from their stores. I really can't see this happening.
The link above refers to 10 people a year being killed by faulty wiring or appliance installations. Trouble is, though, it doesn't go on to specify whether the work was carried out by contractors or someone doing DIY!
Galaxy
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The mos likely route to enforcement will be that in the event of an electrical fire that the insurers will not pay out unless the wirework was signed off.
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Best I go and stock up on 2.5mm twin and earth before purchasing lengths in excess of 1.5m become an arrestable offence. As for the idea of disallowing home car maintentance, I can see this one will be a mere step away for the thought-police at Millbank. How long before Red Ken attempts to explain that his powers as ubhergruppenfuhrer of the socialist republic of London stretch to banning all Halfords within the M25?
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"banning all Halfords within the M25?"
Rearrange following
cloud silver a lining has every
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NoDosh, before you start blaming Millbank, just apply a quick qui bono test.
The beneficiaries are more likely to be in Halkin St, however much they may be posing as friends of Millbank.
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NoDosh, before you start blaming Millbank, just apply a quick qui bono test. The beneficiaries are more likely to be in Halkin St, however much they may be posing as friends of Millbank.
What? The owners of the Namh Thai restaurant want to ban Halfords?
Oh, the SMMT. Tsk, Ms Wheels, how cynical of you.
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What? The owners of the Namh Thai restaurant want to ban Halfords?
Don't think so they have a vested interest in Halfords if only to get us to buy stuff to clean curry stains off our lovely seats.
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It was reported in the Teegraph today and Christopher Booker in the Sunday Telegraph also was sounding off about it
IMO any legislation that stops incompetent idiots like my ex brother in law drilling into the wall and straight into the wiring circuit has to be a good thing - he was thrown across the room and was lucky he was only shocked and didn't kill himself.
As for banning all Halfords within the M25 - Londons night mayor has had worse ideas.....
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I cannot possibly see how the new DIY Electrical Wiring law will ever be enforced. The only possible and ultimate way would be to restrict the sale of items connected with electrical wiring, which would mean that B&Q and many other stores would have to remove a hell of a lot of products from their stores. I really can't see this happening.
Would this not parallel the situation with gas?.
Was allowed to buy vents/registers and a timer for the gas warm air unit in my old house. Manfrs made clear however they could not supply anything on the combustion side except to Corgi registered contracters.
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Would this not parallel the situation with gas?
It would. But the dangers from electricity are much less than those from gas.
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And its a darn sight more difficult to find out when you've got a problem with gas.
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And its a darn sight more difficult to find out when you've got a problem with gas.
After spending a night in the same hotel room after a Thai meal I can assure you that you *do* have a problem with gas. Or you sense of smell.
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Funnily enough I didn't have a problem with my sense of smell, although I can quite see that you might have done.
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Agreed - it's completely unenforceable.
I re-wired my house, complete with new consumer unit. I did it myself because the quotes I received didn't appear to be good value and because I'm confident with DIY.
All I know is that the new wiring is a damn sight safer than the old.
10 people annually die due to faulty wiring/appliance installations? The return on investment simply isn't worth it, I don't doubt for an instant that 20 lives could be saved in other areas with the same amount of legislation.
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I never have a problem with DIY for Gas appliances but always prefer to get an expert to do the electrics.
However I have given up doing any gas repairs since the time I was replacing a thermocouple in the gas oven a few years ago when SWMBO returned to find me on my knees in the kitchen with my head in the gas oven and panicked...... She thought she had forgotten to renew my life insurance....
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A few years ago the "Contractors" came to my parents house to change their gas meter. They were changing all the meters in their street.
A day or so later my parents noticed a peculiar smell, which certainly wasn't there before this work was done. They went and spoke to the men, who were still working at the other end of the road.
When they came back to the house to investigate the reason for the smell the culprit was soon found. One of the "Contractors" has fogotten to tighten one of the meter couplings!!!
The "Contractor" clearly didn't check his work, nor have anyone else come to check it, either. My parents could easily have been killed.
I think this story says it all!!!
Galaxy
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Agree - if the justification for this is 10 deaths pa then perhaps we need to regulate crossing roads. Loads of people get killed due to mistakes when doing this so why not regulate it too? I know, they could institute a 'Compulsory Certificate of Perambulation' a bit like a personal MOT for all UK residents.
Also I think step ladders should be entirely restricted to experts. People fall off them all the time you know.
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And there's more! After (I think) April 2005 if your good old central heating boiler breaks down you won't be able to get a good cast iron replacement that lasts and lasts. You'll have to get a complicated condensing monstrosity with alumnium parts that might just go for 5 years if you'r lucky at a cost of over £1000. All in the name of efficiency, that won't be achieved unless you replace the whole heating system at the same time! And you'll have to have it fitted by a corgi
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I'll have to sack the Spaniel.
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Exactly the reason why my (nasty old back) boiler is being replaced tomorrow. The chap is very busy for the next few months.
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And you'll have to have it fitted by a corgi
>>
The last Corgi that came to fit my kitchen units, from a well known high street outfit, wanted to cut ventilation holes in my work surface. After I told him NO, he got shirty, I am a Corgi etc etc. I stuffed the installation book under his nose and he then shut up.
Of course there are some good ones out there.
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"After (I think) April 2005 if your good old central heating boiler"
As the owner of a good old cast iron boiler, I would be interested to find out where this bit of legislation has come from? Anyone got any links?
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Mind You its been hard to find a new old style cast iron boiler for years.
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I have an old iron boiler which was given the good word at the last yearly inspection by the gas people, and it seems likely to last out what years may remain to me.
The trouble is, given all these little caesars who spend their time making new regulations as a pleasant option to doing useful work, how long before they MAKE me buy one of the new contraptions?
They would ban classic cars too, as soon as they could get away with it.
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Don't forget colours are changing too. Going from red/yellow/blue for phases to white/grey/black.
Single phase is going from brown and blue to blue and black. Yup, blue now means live...
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What's wrong with red - in every culture its associated with danger.
(as in Yelp ! Ouch ! Curly mop !)
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Don't forget colours are changing too. Going from red/yellow/blue for phases to white/grey/black. Single phase is going from brown and blue to blue and black. Yup, blue now means live...
Erm, no. Blue is now neutral, like all the wires in flex. It's all to comply with Europes way of doing things. So single phase is brown (live) and blue. It all makes sense when you think about it (apart from the black/grey bit).
see www.stagesafe.co.uk/Changes.pdf (PDF)
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Huh, you think you're confused about a.c. and phase colourings changing, d.c. is also changing; from blue and white to blue and black, but just to confuse everyone blue is changing polarity! The only way we will know which equipment is wired to which system is by a sticker on the kit, recipe for a fair number of 'pops' I would think.
By the way, in case you've missed it, there are also plans to bring in a similar system to the new electrical wiring regs to cover all copper pipework, I believe from 2006/2007. So we will soon be in a position where you will be unable to do any gas, electrical, plumbing or window fitting without a building inspector or having a trade certificating organisation to certify you, at an annual cost, of course.
No doubt it will be followed by woodwork, brickwork, et al.
Personally I feel you would be well advised to sell any shares you may have in any DIY chains over the next couple of years and invest in certifying agencies.
Cockle
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