Seen a Y red (5/01) VW Passat 1.9 TDi (130bhp) Sport estate 6sp in dark metallic blue. Its got climate, twin heated front seats, half leather/alcantara, trip computer, 6 disc autochanger. 65,000 miles with full VWSH. As usual no mats or first aid kit (why do the dealers not insist on them being retained?).
Test drove it today, very smooth no smokiness even at startup, although turbo whistle notable.
Wife needs to trade her 02 seat ibiza 1.4 chill 3dr (silver, 23,000m FSH, climate)in as the car's for her. She's concerned by the high milage.
I would love to know what everyone's opinion / experience with these engines / this car.
Its stickered for £11,500 and they've offered £4,500 for the seat. Any advice re haggling gratefully received. What does Glass's say? I've looked on autotrader and it seems very competetive. How long will it last? Anything to look out for?
Thanks in advance
Alex
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Alex,
I've got a Y reg (07/01) Estate S with sports suspension, it does mainly motorway mileage (60k).
Since 50k it's had a new boot lock, a/c control unit, turbo, cat and front suspension links/guides replaced together with o/s/f lower wishbone (all under warranty).
I've had it serviced at 2 VW main dealers, the first left various breather pipes disconnected after the service which caused a bit of grief.
The 2nd dealer 'couldn't hear' the noise the front suspension was making as the fault got progressively worse, eventually had to get the lease company involved at which point the garage 'found' the fault.
I'm afraid I couldn't recommend one - although when it's running well it's a good car, handling is definitely the weakest point.
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I have to agree with the above. I owned an 01 Passat from 6 to 18 months old. Eventually got rid of it because of the constant electrical faults, dash/trim problems and extremely poor customer service. In fact, I still see red when I read about 'VW quality' in car magazines. The residuals are no better than any other car, despite what I had been led to believe.
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In addition, my car had less than 20'000miles when it went.
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Thanks. Disappointed to here the above, sounds like i should avoid. Anyone have any positive experiences?
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My Passat Estate S TDi 100bhp , 45000miles , 51 reg, has no real problems apart from 10k life of front tyres and juddering wiper blades.Nice to drive in basic spec so I imagine a posher one would be really good.
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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Do a search under my username for recent posts. Not so long ago I looked at pros & cons of the Rover 75 vs the Passat, and I did a search of the Technical forum on this site. To get as many results as possible, I just used "Rover 75" and "Passat" as search terms. Outcome was three pages of threads about the Rover 75, with only four of those being threads that concerned something going wrong with the car. By contrast, there were 23 PAGES of threads about the Passat, the vast majority of which concerned significant problems in a variety of areas - in other words, not limited to a known problem with one or two particular parts of the car, but all over the place. Wish I'd bought a 75 now ...
andymc
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Andy, your prior threads are putting me right off, so much for vw build quality i thought they ran and ran
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The turbo whistle is standard! The Passat can be a very good buy and this engine will give performance and economy. If you are still interested in it check that it has had the belts changed at last service. I have heard of VW dealers telling customers that 80K is the correct mileage to do this big, expensive work. It isn't. 65K mileage is not a problem at all for the engine, I would be more interested in trim wear and any rattles and squeaks.
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65k isn't a high mileage by modern car standards and if properly looked after it should do another 65k.
The main problem with Passats is the squeaking/creaking trim and the wacky electrical faults (e.g. climate control module, c/locking) that cost an arm and a leg to fix.
Faults with front suspension bushes and CV joints seem par for the course - but they are not too expensive.
If you want reliability and hassle free motoring then buy an Avensis or a Primera.
Wife's 1998 2.0i Primera just went through MoT today. C0 = 0%; HC = 2ppm; lambda = 1.00
Never had anything replaced other than fluids and filters; plugs. Still runs as sweetly as the day it rolled out of the dealers.
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Well, at 65k the car you're looking at shouldn't encounter the problem mine did (suspension - still to be sorted, but total non-franchise cost now around £250 including labour). Mine's a 99 TDi Sport 110, and I paid £7k for it last year. Could probably get about £5700 for it now, but I'd not get much equivalent for the money.
Having said what I have, it's not all bad - the engine (apart from MAF problems and the irritation of changing a cambelt every 35k miles) is probably one of the better diesels for the time, and it's still a lovely refined cruiser on the motorway, very comfortable & spacious on the inside, a good car to go on driving holidays in. It's just that there are too many things which could potentially go wrong if I was looking at spending in excess of £10k on one. For that, I could get a very tidy high spec Rover 75, or a Mondeo, or a Primera. I could even venture into BMW and Merc territory, although the same "perceived vs actual" reliability seems to affect those brands almost as much as VW/Audi.
andymc
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OK you asked for the good bits. I know 2 Passat TDI owners (one family, other friend) and both have had nothing but good experiences. Like many threads on this site, don't be put off by the posts in the mistaken belief that these are somehow representative. I don't dispute their validity- but you've obviously attracted the bad reports & there must be plenty of satisfied owners out there.
I still think my Ford TDCi is better (having driven in both), but I wouldn't grumble much if it turned into a Passat overnight...
Splodgeface
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Thanks guy's / girls please keep your opinions coming in. I haven't given up on it yet as there are no squeeks/rattles and it felt very good on the test drive. Should it have the cambelt changed at 65k? Should i insist on the dealer doing it prior to buying or get money off if so how much does it cost to change?
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Two technicians who work for me both bought s/hand Passats, 1999 and 2000 with around the mileage you mention. One bought one, then the other guy liked the look of it so he got one.
They have both had a fair number of niggles over the last year or so. Wouldn't but too bad if they were Fords with Ford priced spares. But when you need VW parts and service the costs do mount up. One guy had the alternator pack up and because we work in the motor industry we managed to blag one at a discount for him - but it was still over £300. The same guy has a recurring problem with ABS light coming on - which even with access to test kit etc. (i.e. VAG-COM) can't be nailed.
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In full agreement with the earlier post. I changed the Passat for a MG ZT. In over a year of motoring, not a single rattle or fault. Its cost £100 for a service (as opposed to the £260 for the Passat) and it's also a blast to drive. Can't recommend it enougth.
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Cam belt should have been changed at 60k. If not it will cost between £250/£400. Correct 505.01 or 506.01 oil, depending on whether its's on fixed or variable service intervals, must have been used. VW's never come with first aid kits in the UK, they are a legal requirement in Germany etc. that's why there's a dedicated empty compartment in the boot.
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Buy a new Primera diesel for £13,000 makes more sense to me,or petrol for loads less.
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Will check out the nissan, anyone rate the mondeo TDCI?
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I've got a Passat 130 TDi which has done 19000 miles.
It is the only car (of many) that I have owned that has not had a single thing go wrong.
It never uses any oil, but I change it more often than VW say. I do not believe in extended oil changes.
It is a brilliant car, very comfortable, and since putting on Pirelli P 7s instead of the original Dunlops, it now handles well.
Having read this thread I am now very worried.
Shall I go out and buy a Rover?
I don't think so.
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Its not an easy one this.
I have a 2001 Y Passat TDI which has now covered 62k compared to the Vauxhall DI it replaced its a fine car and the Vectra really was a bag of bolts in comparison.
That aside the VW dealer network is awful, here in N Cheshire we are looking at £85 plus VAT p/h labour costs and no real interest in the customer, now my warranty has expired I hope to have seen the last of the morons who operate the VW dealerships near me and this reason alone would put me off buying another VW. These muppets took over a year to realise 505.001 was a necessity and I has at least one drain following a service which arose when I asked which oil they had put in.
That aside apart from services I have had no additional costs and the local Seat garage did the cambelt at 60k for a lot less than VW wanted. The only thing that has gone wrong with the car was the fag lighter packing up which the dealer did not want to attend to until the warranty expired, (they lost the records on their computer).
The car is a fine motorway mile muncher it will cruise all day at 80/90 and still return more than 40mpg and its at its best on the motorway in comparison to the backroads where the handling lets the car down.
That aside I am getting anxious about the spate of wishbone/balljoint failures starting to appear on this forum as well as the fact the VW recall on these items did not extend to the UK. As far I as I can recall at least 3 recent contributors have been affected to a greater or lesser degree in this department.
There have also over the months been at least 2 contributors who have experienced woeful build quality with their Passats.
So for me the jurys out on another, yes its is a good car but I suspect others may be as good without the clown circus that comprises VW dealerships being attendance.
HTH
as always
Mark
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Hi,
I have a 2000 w 115pd which has been fault free since day 1. The car has covered 60,000 miles and has not had one repair. It has been at vw for service and it gets oil change in between, timing belt at 40,000. The car has only been to dealers for warranty work once(heated washer jets that were actualy working ok!) It is four years old on 16 April and I have not even changed any brake parts yet, had a look at the fronts and reckon good for another 20,000. My only expence has been a battery (today),which at £55 from vw is not to bad. The car avrages over 50 mpg for every tank very rarley does it do less. I to am conserend about the horror tales but mine has been a good car. Been and drove a brand new one and even after 60,000 miles my own car drives as good. No bumps, sqeaks,rattles!
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In response to original post - if you can get a Diesel Primera for £13k then it has to be a bargain. You'll get full warrantly cover for 3 years, and traditionally Nissan dealers have performed excellently on warranty claims. Never a quibble.
The only problem we had with my wife's Primera was a rear seat belt went 'sloppy' after about two years. The dealer was good enough to take my word for it over the 'phone, order one in and book me in for a 'while-you-wait' fitting (took about 40 mins).
I quite like Passats but the VW/Audi dealers are a pain. A colleague had a 2000W Sharan from new that caused him no end of problems and he was in constant conflict with the dealers - who had a very rigid interpretation of the VW's 'warranty'. When the warranty expired he p/x'd it for a Discovery (glutton for punishment!).
I wouldn't worry about the wishbone bush/balljoint problems. ECP keep the part on the shelf now and its an easy job to replace.
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As always Aprilia has made a good suggestion, I would certainly look at a Primera before I bought another Passat.
Aprilia, can you shed more light on the wishbone/balljoint problem that exists with Passats, I am worried mine might be on the way out I couldnt find any wishbones or balljoints for the 2001 Passat on the Euro Car Parts site, what exactly goes and needs replacing? I have lost all faith in local VW dealers to diagnose and fix without being robbed.
As always
Mark
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As always Aprilia has made a good suggestion, I would certainly look at a Primera before I bought another Passat. Aprilia, can you shed more light on the wishbone/balljoint problem that exists with Passats, I am worried mine might be on the way out I couldnt find any wishbones or balljoints for the 2001 Passat on the Euro Car Parts site, what exactly goes and needs replacing? I have lost all faith in local VW dealers to diagnose and fix without being robbed. As always Mark
Mark
I don't claim to be a VW expert, I have only limited experience of them. However I have a good workshop and like to keep my 'hand in' at spannering - just for fun. When my colleague's Passat ('99 I think) started squeaking over bumps and 'clunking' I offered to change the bushes for him. VW wanted to do both sides and cost would have been about £750 inc. labour. It is not covered by their 'used car warranty' by the way!
The bushes that fail are the large ones at the inner of the wishbones. They are not available seperately (or at least they weren't last year) so you have to buy the whole wishbone. My colleague seemed to get one easily enough from ECP, I think it was about £100. You need to replace the bolts too.
CV joint went later, I think he got that for about £120.
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Thanks Aprilia
I am off to the independent VW place this week for an oil and filter, whilst there I will get there opinion on the joints as I fear they are just starting to go. That is to say some creaking from the steering at low speeds plus a slightly more noticeable clunk over humps and the like.
Thanks again
as always
Mark
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Or how about a Laguna dci (stop laughing). My 52 reg 1.9 has done 21k without any problems at all. Not the last word in handling I'll admit, but really comfy & relaxing to drive.
Front tyres are still OK for a couple of thousand or so. Just make sure it's the 120 bhp 6 speed. The 5 speed is only 105 bhp.
This will probably get rubbished, but I can happily live with that...
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Agreed, or a Mondeo, better car than Passat and cheaper. What about the Alfa diesel? Maybe expensive dunno but apparantly a great engine in a gorgeous car...
Kev
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Interesting - Passat reputation for reliability ever diminishing, while Alfa - including 156 - seems to be on the up. At the same time, the Alfa is just so much better looking, and the JTD engines could well be the measure of the VW PD 130/150.
Popular perception of Alfa is - how was it put - after three years, just sweep the remains off the drive? Consequent effect on depreciation should mean a much more recent and nicer 156 JTD available for the same money as an older Passat.
Here's a question - is it reasonable to say that Alfa and VW are on a par for reliability?
andymc
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Would love to know about alfa reliablity, mole valley have a georgeous looking 156 2.4 jtd sportwagon at the 12.5k mark , any opinions?
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I think Alfas are getting better (?), and VW are definitely not as reliable as 'reputation' suggests.
The problem isn't so much the car if/when it goes wrong - it's the dealers that have difficulty in getting everything fixed properly, and to the customer's satisfaction.
The JTD is a great engine by the way.
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I've considered a 156 diesel in the past but have been put off by reports that the front suspension can't cope with the weight of the diesel engine causing the sump to hit the ground on uneven terrain. I understand this if this happens it is very pricey to fix.- No Dosh haven't you got one of these- is there any truth in this?
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Yup, I've got a 156JTD sportwagon. Funnily enough I bought it after looking at a number of A4 and Passat estates (amongst other cars) and deciding they weren't up to the quality the advertising would have you believe.
The front end of the JTD does dip more than you might like, but there is a simple solution, one that I've adopted. For £99 Alfa will supply you with a strut-brace to place across the top of your front suspension turrets. It totally transforms the ride comfort. You get a clear impression of the front suspension working as it should, whereas without the brace it can feel like the whole front end is crashing down when you hit a bump on one side. Needless to say, it does wonders for the already sharp handling.
More info on www.alfaowner.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?f=52
Just do a forum search for "strutbrace"
I warn you now, you'll find a bit of digging from petrolhead alfa owners over there (they clearly resent the superior engine us JTD drivers have). Oh, and you'll find PR and BazzaBear over there as well.
There are a growing number of JTD drivers singing the praises, and many of them seem to have the Sportwagon.
It isn't all sweetness and light. I replaced the rear trailing arm bushes on mine at 30k (a cheap enough job at an independant Alfa specialist) when they started to knock, but then I live on an unmade/unadopted lane with potholes that can swallow small children, so to be expected on any car. The much commented concerns about front bushes don't seem to have impacted on any of the JTD drivers. Not sure if it's a different bush or if the extra weight has anything to do with it.
On the whole, a very satisfactory experience, owning a 156JTD.
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Think i will have to pop to mole valley to see the one advertised on the trader. keep your opinions coming anyone experienced the primera / avensis diesel estates?
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Nothing wrong with the 130bhp lump in the Passat - your polo engine is obviously configured differently.
Pigboy.
Primera and avensis diesel estates both well reviewed. If, like me, you want an estate because of the extra load space, then think carefully before opting for the primera - I reckon my old Cavalier hatch had more boot space...v. disappointing in this respect. Avensis looks great though and v well reviewed...I wouldn't say no.
I would recommend the Mondeo TDCi estate - because I am biased..! Backroomers reports showed the TDCi did have early teething problems but these seem to be resolved. Mine is just such a great drive - superb handling, great engine, loads of power/torque, and a huge load space. And 100% reliable so far. Now available in 6 speed - would make those motorway hauls effortless, I should imagine. I've also found the Ford dealerships (2 used so far) extremely helpful even though mine is an import through Trade Sales (- recommend you look at the bargains they have)
Splodgeface
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So much choice, my head hurts! Really like the mondeo too - good bargains from ford direct, wife liked an 02 ghia tdci estate 20k - they wanted 14.5k which i thought to be steep. Better deals available in the network me thinks. i have looked at the importers but does this not make the insurance higher or are TSL Uk supplied cars?
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Insurance no different. Spec the same as UK through Trade sales. Its the same car from the same factory in Belgium. The only thing you won't get is much cosmetic choice - I phoned up Trade sales to buy mine, and they said "we've got them in Ink blue or silver". Thats about as sophisticated as it gets! Just think of the £s you save though - mine was over £5k off list price and the only thing I didn't get was the third year of warranty.
Splodgeface
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No dosh, i think the alfa looks great espescially the sportwagon - but the JTD 2.4 is listed by autocar as gp16 insurance and touring mpg 36. What is your experience?
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I get around 38-42mpg and I'm no slow-coach. Mine's been chipped as well for a bit more grunt as it's one of the early 136BHP ones - the current model kicks out 175 and mine isn't far behind! Coincidentlly I'm just off outside to fit an Autodelta airfilter and increase the output on the chip to match :o)
Insurance is actually pretty reasonable - only cost about £100 more than my old Rover 416Sli. Don't forget there is also a 1.9JTD that's almost as quick, but with better economy.
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I should add that the 156 Sportwagon is no load-lugger. Think of it as a 156 Hatchback rather than an estate. I only needed Focus/Golf boot space or a bit bigger and it suits me fine.
If it's space you're after, go for the Mondeo.
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No dosh,
Just spoke to dealer in preston he's got an 02 Lusso with 12k 2 owners 1 was fiat uk, its the 2.4 150bhp model he wants £12995. opinion?
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Lusso spec has all the toys and a more comfortable ride (I have the Veloce with the sports suspension). The 150BHP motor is a gem. Sounds like a 5cyl Audi at full-chat. £12995 seems about right on the money.
I would suggest you go and have a testdrive, making sure you take in some bumpy roads. If you like it, put it on the shortlist.
I would recommend you have a listen out for any knocking from the suspension (normally noticed at low speed on uneven surfaces). This indicates premature bush wear. Also have a listen from trim rattles. The overhead light is a prime suspect as the wires sometimes rattle on the rooflining. 2cm of masking tape cures that one!
Have a good look around the load area to make sure it hasn't been abused. Check the load cover thoroughly - make sure that the cover and upper and lower luggage nets all retract properly. Also ask the dealer to slip the catches and remove it. There was a spate of these failing to retract and at £140 for a new one, you want to make sure it works! Some were fixed with a couple of self-tappers, but if this fix is used, the end will ping off into the distance when it's removed. Not overly common, but still worth checking.
That's about it really, no more or less than any other TD estate in that price bracket. A few things to look for, but no more than any other manufacturer.
If I were you I would give this a go against a Mondeo and make my mind up from there.
ND
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PS. Filter and upgraded chip now fitted. Bloomin' 'eck, tis fast.
:o)
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Hey Nitro, fear not I am here to back you up. 1.9 DCI120 14k 10 months old, not a thing gone wrong yet. still pleased with it.
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My daughter has a Polo with the same engine as the Passat, I think the Passat is somewhat underpowered as the lighter Polo isn't all that endowed with performance. I had Volvo estates for years and they were always reliable and although the MPG won't match the Passat over time they get the money back through sheer long life and reliability.
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Pigboy, I see you're in Preston? If so more good news on the Alfa front. My brother lives near there and takes his 156 to an Alfa independant who is very highly rated. He recently did his belt change etc.Bro was very happy with service price and job!
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I'm in Carlisle. Thanks i think ill have to compare mondeo / 156 sportwagon. Will try both and compare costs of ownership
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