I know a couple of people that had it installed around 10 years
ago.I have been told by them it was a lot of money and nothing saved.Dont wish to put you off as they must have improved it by now.but one had cavity wall insulation done about 2 years ago and nothing but praise.ie gas bill lower.
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I do remember seeing an idea from an eco house on public display in Leicester.
It was very simple. A radiator painted matt black on one side and set behind a piece of glass inside a wooden surround.
Water was simply pumped around between this and the item to be heated, in your case, a second primary circuit in your hot water tank.
Cheap as chips to build (2nd hand rads are 10 a penny at your local dump), but as for effectivity I don't know.
Hugo
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The Eco House in Leicester provides all its hot water internally from the solar system, and still manages to sell extra electricity back to the National Grid :) Having said that, their solar array is relatively large and uses a very specific (and quite expensive) material to get those sort of returns.
In typical Leicester City Council fashion*, I heard that the Eco House may be for the chop very shortly, so now is the time to visit if anyone's interested - it's a great little diversion if you're in the area, and the tea is superb ;)
* I wonder if they're going to give back their Environment City award?...
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"The Eco House in Leicester provides all its hot water internally from the solar system, and still manages to sell extra electricity back to the National Grid :) Having said that, their solar array is relatively large and uses a very specific (and quite expensive) material to get those sort of returns."
It's the ECO house that I was thinking of on the Hinkley road IIRC. I lived about 20 mins walk from it before I became a Cornishman.
I picked up a leaflet with instructions as to how to build 'solar panels' out of radiators painted black.
I suspect they'll have a website where you could contact them on.
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When I moved house a couple of years back the survey I had included an 'environmental audit' which did some basic cost / benefit analysis on cavity wall insulation / solar panels etc.
The calculated payback period on using solar panels for water heating was about 25 years; and that was assuming the alternative was to use an electric water heater at peak rate. In actual fact we heat the water from the gas boiler; which would make the payback period 40 - 50 years. A complete non starter from a financial point of view.
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Thanks for that - what was the verdict on cavity wall insulation? I'm considering that as well, because my outside walls are really cold, making condensation a problem.
Matthew Kelly
No, not that one.
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IIRC the survey reckoned about 10 years payback on cavity wall insulation; but a year ago there was a 'special offer' from the gas board, where there was a (government / taxpayer? ) subsidy on the first 30 square metres of insulation, plus interest free credit over 2 years.
We had it fitted last autumn; and despite my usual scepticism the house feels warmer; despite the fact I?ve turned the thermostat down. I think it?s very difficult to do exact cost / benefit analysis on this; but the fuel bills are maybe 50 ? 70 quid per year lower, despite the house being warmer. I think the total cost of installation ( on a medium size 4 bed detached ) was about 400 quid.
Basically I would regard the cavity wall insulation as a good investment.
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Improved comfort may be a bigger issue than the cost saving? There's more to life than just money.
Try a couple of airbricks (or leaving hte window open a crack) if condensation is the problem. I bet you've got sealed double glazing units!
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I have got UPVC sealed double glazing units - they'll be replaced when the extension is built & I'll get ones with vents in then. However, the exterior wall is so cold in winter that any furniture positioned against the wall results in condensation. There's also condensation on the ceiling in one place near the exterior wall which I take it could be improved with better loft insulation. I leave the window open whenever I can but being out all day at work makes this impractical during the week.
Matthew Kelly
No, not that one.
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The only way to cure condensation is with adequate ventilation.
One of the worst causes is when people block up fireplaces.Don't do it folks!
Leave windows open as much as practicable and investigate getting airbricks.
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One of the worst causes is when people block up fireplaces.Don't do it folks!
Well that has happened in my house - perhaps I should get some airbricks put in when I replace the window. Would a couple under or above the window be a good idea ?
Matthew Kelly
No, not that one.
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Matt - Get proper advice from a local builder ref the airbricks but if possible unblock the fireplace which will allow air to circulate as it is meant to in the room.
Alternatively put airbricks into the wall blocking your fireplace or into the chimney breast.
It really is all about getting a proper circulation of air in the room.
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>>The only way to cure condensation is with adequate ventilation.
True, that's the only way to cure it, but insulation can help you minimise it.
Although, depending on the size of the room, you may find that dry lining it and insulating in that gap is more advisable than filling the cavity which can be harmful and actually worsen the situation.
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However, the exterior wall is so coldin winter that any furniture positioned against the wall results in condensation. There's also condensation on the ceiling in one place near the exterior wall which I take it could be improved with better loft insulation.
I find that a dehumidifier works wonders ~ I bought my first about 17 years ago, and I recently bought a second for use in my garage.
I use the one in the living quarters virtually continuously from October to March inclusive, and the one in the garage as required, i.e. when I have put my car in when it is wet.
The first was expensive ~ £300 in 1987 ~ but even then I thought it was well the money. Nowadays you can get one for under £100.
Some manufacturers claim certain health benefits, but I can't confirm the validity of these claims.
Opening windows can be counter-productive because you're just letting in cold damp air.
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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I find that a dehumidifier works wonders.........
PS And if it's raining on wash-day, the washing gets hung up in the "utility". It dries in a matter of hours, and there's still no condensation. Brilliant invention.
--
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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I do have a dehumidifier which I run on and off when the windows get steamed up etc. and to dry washing. However, it's proved extremely unreliable and after three breakdowns in less than six months we've got a new one out of the manufacturers. The replacement is a better model with a humidistat so it can be set to come on when humidity reaches a certain level (I think), sadly I didn't get an instruction manual with it so I'll have to work it out for myself.
Matthew Kelly
No, not that one.
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There's also condensation on the ceiling in one placenear the exterior wall which I take it could be improved with better loft insulation.
Matt,
Condensation on the ceiling close to a wall commonly occurs there more than elsewhere ( and often resulting in mould forming) because there is less movement of air in that region. (For the same reason, a smoke detector should not be placed close to the junction of the ceiling and a wall.)
Persevere with the dehumidifier during October to March, and this should get rid of the problem. In all the 17 years I've had a dehumidifier I've not had a problem of damp in any of the four bungalows I've owned in that time. But I have found that you need to operate the dehumidifier virtually continuously during that 6 month period. I've calculated that this costs me £50 per year and I don't begrudge that one little bit. Compare that with what you spend on running a car!
--
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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>Am considering installing solar panels on planned house extension
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oh for an edit button
should have said "looks out of window at current weathjer for good reason not waste money on solar heating"
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The term "solar power" is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest - you don't need blazing sunshine for it to work, daylight on a dull day will still do the job. Still think that wind, solar and wave power are sadly untapped/underutilised resources.
As for cost, well, it depends on your approach to these things. (Right, going to philosophise/rant a bit here, feel free to ignore!)
We're all paying hidden costs for energy/heat one way or another - same idea as the "real cost" of food. You pay higher prices for food that's described as organic, i.e. it hasn't been sprayed with pesticides or weedkiller, irradiated, filled with antibiotics, whatever. When you buy food which has been through such processes, you might pay less at the till, but after you've left the shop you're still paying - with your health, with the clean-up/eradication costs for BSE, foot & mouth, the effects of over-intensive agriculture, the social impact of all these, and so on.
In the same way, cleaner energy and having more thermally efficient homes often seem at face value to cost more, but oil/gas/nuclear/coal all bring their own multitudes of problems whether through taxation costs, security costs, health costs, etc. We still pay!
Trying to come back to the topic, I would see it as a real long-term investment if all new homes were required under building regs to be built with solar panels and a wind turbine in order to supplement/replace power from the grid, as well as having higher grade insulation. Yes, it would cost more up front, but that would be offset by reducing/eliminating energy bills every single month. Other benefits would include less vulnerability to power cuts, cleaner air and cosier homes. At the same time, support for retro-fitting any alternative energy installations could also be made available as a write-off against energy taxes. Considering how much energy this country expects to have to import in a couple of years' time at current consumption levels, it could prove to be a cost-saving exercise for individual households and for the Treasury over quite a short period of time.
OK, rant over!
andymc
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