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We will not mention tax evasion then!
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In theory you probably could, at least mixed with proper diesel, although I wouldn't risk it in a hi-tech modern diesel. Remember the oil won't have the necessary lubricants the injector pump needs.
Bear in mind it's illegal as there's no road tax paid and that is precisely why central heating oil now has a dye in it, just like farm diesel...
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Some domestic heaters use 23 sec burning oil.
This is exactly the same as Gas Oil, which is the same as red tractor diesel.
So it will not wreck your car, but if customs and excise find you it will cost you far more than you have saved.
Stop doing it now, you know it makes sence.
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Gas oil (class D, I think) is very similar. I believe proper DERV has some additives in it to prolong pump life. I know of diesel generator sets and tractors (off road only) that have been run on heating oil. I don't think that kerosene is much used for heating these days.
If HM Customs & Excise catch you at it, they'll ensure it's not worth your while. "127000 miles in a diesel Golf from new, say 40 mpg for the fuel excise duty, plus compounded interest, plus a hefty fine, payable now please sir."
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Quizman. - Gas Oil is actually 35 sec oil and not 23 as you mentioned, - customs make regular checks on it`s mis-use and will conviscate the car along with a heavy fine if they catch you out.
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What does this 35 sec mean? I have heard that you need to add some Duckhams into the fuel although I don't know what ratio. Of course this is for academic interest only and also just in case of Armageddon.
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A friend of friend etc,puts 10 litres of cheapo 20/50 engine oil into a 45 Gallon barrel of heating oil and runs several old diesels and 1 very new E320 on this mix without any mechanical probs.This is of course very cheap and very illegal and must not be carried out in the UK.
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Pullgees - the 'sec' rating is, if I remember correctly from the dim and distant past, a measure of its viscosity. It's basically how many seconds a given volume of the oil takes to travel through a vertical glass cylinder of a given length. The higher the sec rating, the thicker or more viscous the oil. I am sure someone will be a bit more precise on this but I think that's basically accurate.
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Cat - that may be how it is measured, but my guess would be the time for a special ball-bearing to drop a certain height in the oil. Either way it will be very temperature-dependent!
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Temperature dependant? Hmm, maybe it's how many seconds it takes to combust under pre-set given conditions ?
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Seconds refers to the number of seconds a certain quantity of fluid passes through a certain hole at a specified temp. I forget the precise figures but there are two scales, one called Redwood which hasnt been used for years and one called SSU (Seconds Staybolt Universal) which is an American scale and is still sometimes used in the States. But for some years viscosity has been measured in Stokes named after the famous physicist George Stokes. When applied to fuel oils its always quoted in centistokes (Cst). 1 Cst is approx 29 seconds in either of the above scales.
Incidently, my friend who did 127000 miles in a Golf on heating oil was not in a country in which HM Customs & Excise have jurisdiction.
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TVM Claude I've copied and pasted that into my docs for reference
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Wouldn't want to think too long about what's coming out of the exhaust of any of these, even the E320.
andymc
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PS my last was an attempted reply to T Lucas, even though it appears much further down the page.
andymc
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andymc,
if you goto the top of the page and click "view threaded" you will see that your reply is to T. Lucas.
DD.
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"andymc,
if you goto the top of the page and click "view threaded" you will see that your reply is to T. Lucas"
Yep, know how that works but I usually view flat so I can see the whole thread. Not sure why the glitch happens, ie that in Flat view a reply to an earlier post can appear several spaces down the page and seem out of context. Not that bothered, although if Stephen is inclined to roll up his sleeves and sort it I'll buy him a virtual pint ...
andymc
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Not sure why the glitch happens, ie that in Flat view a reply to an earlier post can appear several spaces down the page and seem out of context. Not that bothered, although if Stephen is inclined to roll up his sleeves and sort it I'll buy him a virtual pint ...
There is no glitch for Stephen to sort out. Big Cat replied to T Lucas as well as you also replying to him. Several people have replied to Big Cats post forcing your to appear lower down. The more people who reply to Big Cat's post, the lower your post will drop. Think of it as a tree with several branches steming off the main trunk. In flat view it *appears* incorrect, but as I previously mentioned, if you look in threaded view, it becomes obvious who is replying to who.
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A friend of friend etc,puts 10 litres of cheapo 20/50 engine oil into a 45 Gallon barrel of heating oil and runs several old diesels and 1 very new E320 on this mix without any mechanical probs.This is of course very cheap and very illegal and must not be carried out in the UK.
A multigrade (i.e 20W50) probably isn't the best choice, since the viscosity improvers will tend to gum up your piston rings.
Here I'd use 2-stroke which is still readily available fairly cheaply, though probably not for much longer, and is more or less designed for the job.
(Of course there is no heating oil here and vehicle fuel is cheaper, reducing the incentive.)
Failing that I'd use a straight lubricating oil (I use SAE 40 SJ in my engine), preferably an early additive free API grade like SA or SB, which I believe are sometime sold as hydraulic or compressor oil. You'd probably have to special-order this, if its available at all
A somewhat risky alternative would be vegetable oil, which some people apparently get away with neat. This gums rings and gel sumps but should be less risky at say 5 to 10 %.
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Thank you Dude for correcting my mistake re 35 sec.
However if you read my first message again, you will see that it is NOT me using gas oil/35 sec/red diesel/kerosine with 20/50 added. So if C&E are reading this website it is not me guv, honest!
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As an aside, I have a 1950's Ferguson tractor which runs on petrol or TVO (tractor vapourising oil). TVO is no longer available and there are several recipes for making your own. I use 1 gallon petrol, 1 gallon diesel and 3 gallons home heating oil. Plus a splash of 2 stroke oil for luck. The engine is started on petrol and switched over to the mixture when warm. You also need to finish on petrol as it wouldn't start next time on the mixture. It doesn't seem to make any difference to the performance or visible emissions. Mind you, the compression ratio is only about 5:1 so I reckon it would run on anything that could be made to burn.
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We had large 80,000 gallon tanks in our establisment holding 35 sec (redwood scale). This was piped to steam boilers, heating boilers and large Gardener and Volvo electric diesel generating engines.
We believed that it was identical to normal diesel fuel and was delivered in the normal Shell tankers.
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I ran two 40hp Johnson outboards (2 strokes) for 20 years on a mixture of 50% petrol and TVO with 2stroke oil added. And I used to run a WWII Jeep on neat TVO afer starting it on petrol. After TVO was discontinued in about 1980 I used ordinary paraffin for a short while but I gave it up as it was not as volatile as TVO and the danger of these kerosene fractions is that they can wash down the cylinder walls and dilute the sump oil if they dont completely vaporize which can happen not only in cold weather but also when accelerating hard. If I wanted to make some TVO now I think I would just mix a bit of petrol (say 10%) with a light central heating oil and see how it went.
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Our establishment had about 120,000 litres of fuel oil storage capacity piped to heating and steam boilers. The stand-by generators were fuelled with oil delivered in drums, because we believed that it differed from heating oil.
The maintenance contractors started running the generators on oil they'd drained from the heating system (which they didn't pay for). The Site Engineer (background in engine testing) told them to go and buy some proper diesel because he didn't want that stuff in his generators.
The generators didn't seem to mind but then they were only run for about an hour a week for testing.
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Mindyou, the compression ratio is only about 5:1 so I reckon it would run on anything that could be made to burn.
You are right - I have a petrol-only Ferguson, and tried it once on petrol with 25% diesel (drained from car tank owing to fuel filling error!). It ran perfectly - didn't seem to notice.
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Viscosity for heating oil can go much higher than 35 sec. In another of our Establishments down the road we used 900sec Redwood scale.
The storage tanks had heating coils from the boilers to keep it viscous and very large back up electric immersion heaters.
The pipeline into the boilerhouse had a heated trace line and the burners themselves had heaters just before injection.
A few years before I retired we had the boilers retubed, new burners fitted and changed to 35 sec oil. This eased the worry of a situation occurring of the boilers being down and then losing the electric supply for the heaters. It never happened but would have created some problems of getting it flowing again.
However there was a 2500sec oil available which I believe is no longer sold. Never saw it myself but imagine it must have been almost crude. Perhaps power stations or similar used it.
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Our place used to run the heating boilers on heavy oil & the steam boilers on the 35 sec stuff. They were all converted to 35 sec before I got there, but the electric outflow heaters and pipe trace heating was still in place.
The light oils (kerosene, gas oil, petrol, etc) are distillates, but the heavy stuff was the residue left after the volatile fractions had been removed. There was a 10-year old puddle left from a spillage in one of the tank rooms; it was filthy stuff like bitumen, or nearly solid black treacle. Crude oil must be quite fluid, in comparison. If you got it on your clothes it was nearly impossible to remove. It contained all the nasty chemicals and grains of sand. It was cheaper than the light stuff. Hospitals used to use it, with a big chimney to fire the flue gases up into the stratosphere, to export it to Scandinavia where it came down as acid rain.
I think that power stations are probably the only users now, but with flue gas cleaning equipment.
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Dont you mean 3500 seconds ?
That is the grade now sold as IFO380 (Intermediate Fuel Oil 380 centistokes) which is used by most large ships in their main engines. It needs heating but these engines are running at 100-200 rpm for days or weeks at a time at near constant revs. Price in Rotterdam today is about Usd per tonne (about 7p a litre). Vessels like ferries, cruise ships and smaler coastal vessels generally burn IFO 180 which is a much lighter grade but they will use MDO (marine diesel oil) or MGO (marine gas oil) in their generators. Smaller vessels with higher speed main engines will also use these grades in all their engines. MGO is the nearest equivalent to a clean central heating oil and something you could use in a car. Price today in Rotterdam is about Usd255/tonne or about 11p per litre.
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Interesting thread indeed!
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Sorry, the significance of that link passed me by. Was there a photo there relevant to this thread?
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No, no sorry, it's just a general link to direct people to the excellent MSN Honest John photosite..
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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