Story I heard which I thought I'd share
Person sold a Merc privatly for £65k (Not sure what sort of Merc).
Buyer comes down, likes it and gives them a bankers draft.
This is taken to the bank and is 'cleared'
With this he car is released to the buyer (him being contacted by Mobile).
The following day car insurance is cancelled etc and all of the other admin things.
After this the bank then contacts the seller to say the bankers draft was stolen amd is invalid.
The buyers mobile is no longer answered.
Overall the seller is 65k down.
Where does the seller stand? Can she claim on the insurance? (the car was insured on the day of the sale).
Or from the bank who accepted the draft as cleared?
cheers
Durelli - son of a famous Italian tyre maker
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How long did she allow for the draft to clear? Did she check with the issuing bank that the draft was legit? I don't know how long it takes a bank to notice that drafts have been stolen and whether checking with the issuing bank would give a guarantee that she would get the money anyway.
Personally I would be incredibly suspicious about someone that is prepared to pay £65k for a car in a private sale as that is a heck of a lot of money.
As for the insurance she would have to report it to the police as a stolen vehicle then the insurance company would wait to see whether the car turned up before paying out. Did the car have a tracker or anything like the smartnav system which could give a clue to its whereabouts? The policy small print may have something in it about such incidents and she may find that this situation is a risk that has been specifically excluded or that there is a set procedure that needs to be followed when selling a vehicle in order for a payout under her circumstances.
teabelly
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Unfortunately this happened to my business a while back (oh isn't hinsight a wonderful thing!!).
Fortunately I found out where the goods were then sold to and I approached the company (who we actually worked with) and we came to a settlement. My lawyer said that there was a 50:50 chance that I could have got all the goods back as they had not been paid for in the first place. But then he said that the people who bought the goods off the fraudster might have been entitled to them as they bought in good faith.
I asked about the insurance aspect but was told that this was not covered as I had handed the goods over.
Moral of the story is - CLEARED FUNDS (and even then I have heard stories of banks cancelling them upto 3 weeks later!!)
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PS I would contact the banking obudsman and ask their advice. Personally I would hold the bank responsible for clearing it but I doubt very much that you could get any evidence of a telephone call. When I put my dodgy bankers draft through, I was verbally told that there was no way that it could bounce.
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CM,
What would you expect a bank to do with a counterfeit or stolen draft?
Regards
Vercin
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I thought a bankers draft was as good as cash to the receipiant, so I went looking and found this:
The British Bankers' Association (BBA)
www.bba.org.uk/public/consumers/bankfacts/1689
Bank drafts
Bank drafts are cheques drawn by a bank usually on its own Head Office. Payment is guaranteed provided the draft is genuine and has not been lost or stolen. Drafts go through the normal clearing process like any other cheque and if you are offered a bank draft in payment, don't release the goods until you are sure the draft is genuine and has been paid. If you are selling a car or similar expensive item, beware of the "buyer" who turns up without notice after the banks have closed - usually a Friday. If the "buyer" offers a bank draft, already made out in your name for the full asking price and wants to take the item straight away (usually he/she says that they live at the other end of the country and are travelling back home that night or the next day), it is highly likely that you could be the potential victim of a fraud attempt. Ask yourself whether the situation seems logical - would you for instance go to the trouble of getting a bank draft to buy an item without even checking its condition - or even whether it was still for sale? Better to have lost a sale rather than the item itself.
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Would an acceptable solution to this when selling a vehicle privately, to accompany the buyer to the bank and watch them get the bank draft? Unless they were in cohorts with bank staff this would guarantee you the draft was genuine.
I guess another solution is CHAPS payment (same day, costs about 20 pounds) but I am probably more wary of this than a bank draft, knowing how often the banks screw up and transfer the money into the wrong account etc....
mike
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Would an acceptable solution to this when selling a vehicle privately, to accompany the buyer to the bank and watch them get the bank draft? Unless they were in cohorts with bank staff this would guarantee you the draft was genuine.
I think that the draft can be cancelled if you say that it has been stolen (although not sure baout this). Having said that you will know which account the money has come from and suppose that you can go to court should anything happen. But as yousay CHAPS seems to be the best.
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CM, What would you expect a bank to do with a counterfeit or stolen draft? Regards Vercin
Not clear the funds in the first place (which I think happened in this case).
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The last car i sold was paid for in part by internet transfer. Once the buyer had he decided he wanted the car he went online on my computer, and transferred the money across. Because he was with the same bank as me, the transfer was instant, and i could check my balance immediately to make sure the funds were there.
I was a bit wary as it wasn't a way i'd used before, but it all went without a hitch. Do people think that this is a relatively secure way of accepting payment?
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I suppose that sounds ok, it mwans he knows your account number and sort code though. Can any transactions be made on your account using just those details?
Blue
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I suppose that sounds ok, it mwans he knows your account number and sort code though. Can any transactions be made on your account using just those details?
Anyone to whom you gave a cheque would know those details too.
Internet banking seems a good solution. I've used it a few times but only for relatively small amounts. I know it's instant with Lloyds TSB if it's to another account with the same bank. I don't know which other banks offer the facility.
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Story I heard which I thought I'd share
durelli: my dad use to work in motor ins.
he says your story not uncommon.
he says look at folowing link to old insurance ombudsman archive for real story case and law.
www.theiob.org.uk/digest/d/deception_loss_by.html
my dad says: buyer beware.
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sorry, maent to say
not only buyer, but buyer and seller both beware!
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This wonderouse site has much useful information about buying and selling cars ;-)
www.honestjohn.co.uk/buy_sell/selling/BuySell_Sell...m
The second is a Bank Draft, which you must only take during banking hours so you can phone the bank that issued it and check it is genuine.
All my recent insurance policies have in their exclusions fraud when selling - probably also now covered by their exclusions of 'taken with keys'
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