My one was done a week past Monday. It's a 5 hour job, but the dealers seem to know their way around it, so no hassles. Early C5s did have a few teething troubles (my one is a 2001 build)but to their credit, Citroen have introduced modifications to sort everything out. It would have been very easy for them to say 'tuff' to complaints of uneven tyre wear, but to go to the trouble of replacing the whole back axle tube is serious stuff!
Graeme
|
Graeme,
Is this the one with origins in the CX and use in the XM?
There is a modification to add an oiling point which prolongs life of the supposedly "lubed for life(ha!)" bearing.
Any C5 owners may wish to consult Paul Johnson at XM Centre Oxford who now specilaised in late-model C%s and understands quirks.
HTH
rg
|
Sorry - I'm not familiar with CX or XM setup. The item replaced is a fairly meaty 'axle-like' affair that sits across the car. (It's a bit wet just now for me to crawl underneath and inspect closely, but that's what I can see in general terms)
I know you wouldn't expect a car of this type to have an actual axle - and I doubt whether it can accurately be described as such - but Citroen themselves seem to use the term! I guess it's a structure that both supports the suspension units at each end and gives them the critical dimensions for suspension behaviour (or not as the case seems to have been!)
Would the provision of an oiling point be more for the swinging arms? (Xantia like?) I don't remember my Xantia having this sort of 'axle tube' running across the car.
Graeme
|
Graeme,
If the set-up is like the CX and XM, the "axle" tube gives some structural stability and a trailing arm hangs off each end.
The Pug 405 and Cit BX have a similar arrangement.
The trailing arm bearings are notorious for premature wear.
I am surprised that the C5 has had problems in this area when the basic arrangement has been around for at least 20 years.
(if it is the same set-up, that is...)
rg
|
|
|
|
Are both the axle and tryes being replaced under warranty ?
citmad
|
If I am not mistaken, the C5 has an axle which is free to move unlike the torsion beam in smaller Pugs and Cits.
In convensional suspension, the beam twists to absorb bumps which are damped by the shock absorbers.
A C5 has the tension and the damping supplied by the hydraulics.
Press the back end of a C5, it is very soft compared to other trailing arm vehicles (405, 306 and smaller, Xsara. Saxo etc)
Ben
|
|
|
I have just put a new post in the general discussion section, as this problem has been diagnosed on our C5 today, following the fitting of two new front tyres (boy, does this car eat front tyres). There is about 2mm more wear on the outside of the tyres, than on the inside (I notice an earlier post said it was the inside that had more wear in their case).
I immediately went hot foot to our local Citroen dealer, Bristol St. Motors, to be told by them that they won't cover the work under warranty on any car that has covered over 20K miles. Can they do just choose an abitrary mileage like that? Seems very unfair, if it is a known fault, and they decided not to make it a recall issue. The car is still under warranty (just).
|
Bypass the dealer & get in touch with Citroen u.k. yourself & tell them that you know its a common problem, you have the press articles in front of you & that your Citroen dealer is being very unhelpfull in the matter.
Ask Citroen u.k. nicely at first & you might be very surprised.
|
I should have said that the dealer told me the problem is with Citroen UK, as it is Citroen who have set the 20k limit.
I have tried dealing with Citroen UK before on another matter and didn't find them helpful. However, I will try.
|
|
Try another dealer? I had my axle replaced at 18k, it still makes knocking noises but its too soon to spot tyre wear.
|
|
I contacted Citroen UK this morning, who told me a claim can only be processed through a dealer. They suggested that I contacted another dealer in Mansfield (about 35 miles away, so hardly convenient). They will only consider dealing with after the car has been inspected. The problem with that is they can't tell me how long such an inspection will take and, if they don't agree it is a problem with the 'axles', I will have to pay for the inspection. Knowing main dealer labour rates (and main dealer attitudes), I could end up with a hefty bill for no reward.
|
I'm not certain, but I don't think the inspection takes long - just a matter of measuring up bits of the suspension I think. As I recall, my dealer did it while the car was in for a service. He then confirmed that my car was a suitable candidate (showed me some paperwork from Citroen detailing the crucial dimensions as I recall) The parts were then ordered and I was asked to book the car in for a day at a time convenient to myself. Everything went quite smoothly after that.
I had to replace the first set of rear tyres along with the fronts at 22,000 miles. The rears were excessively worn on the insides and just about illegal. The car has now done 34,000 miles and the rears are practically unworn - certainly not showing any signs of uneven wear.
Good luck.
Graeme
|
I'm not certain, but I don't think the inspection takes long - just a matter of measuring up bits of the suspension I think. As I recall, my dealer did it while the car was in for a service. He then confirmed that my car was a suitable candidate (showed me some paperwork from Citroen detailing the crucial dimensions as I recall) The parts were then ordered and I was asked to book the car in for a day at a time convenient to myself. Everything went quite smoothly after that.
>>
Have you any idea what the crucial dimensions relate to? Is there not any measurement taken of the alignment of the rear wheels? I was told by the chap who fitted the new front tyres at ATS, that the rear wheels must be toeing in to cause the excess wear on the outside edge. It is interesting to note that yours were worn on the inside edge. I wonder if the edge, that the excess wear occurs on, is critical?
Incidentally, what model C5 do you have? We have a 2.2 HDI and it just eats front tyres. I changed the first set at between 17K and 18K, as there was a bit of uneven wear on those (faulty tracking), but it has just gone through a pair of Avon tyres on the front in about 13K, which is appalling really, but they had worn perfectly evenly.
|
Sorry, I don't know exactly what is measured - although I'd guess that 'toe-in' oe 'toe-out' would be considered. I'm pretty sure (but not certain) that it was the inside edges that wore on my one.
My C5 is also a 2.2 HDI (hatch) I got 22,000 miles out of the first set of tyres. I am now hoping to get at least as much out of the next set and considerably more on the rears. I fitted the same Michelins as the car came with (Pilots)
The 'toe' is crucial. One tyre fitter I talked to said that uneven wear on the back tyres is getting to be more common on lots of new cars with independent rear suspension and a lot would also depend on how much weight you usually carried at the back. (Not sure if that's true - especially on a Citroen!)
Hope you get yours sorted.
Graeme
|
After writing a letter to Bristol Street Derby, they agreed that I could take the car to a tyre specialist and get the rear wheel geometry checked. They would only have done the same and it didn't seem sensible to pay them just to drive the car around the same place I was going to use.
The results were within the manufacturers specification tolerances, so it seems I have to accept that I will get uneven wear on the rear tyres. I have left the results with Bristol Street Derby, but I don't suppose Citroen will bat an eyelid over this problem.
The chap at the tyre specialist said that the amount of toe in on the rear wheels is quite severe (the spec is 49 seconds) and he believes it is set up that way to aid rear end stability. Seems odd if it leads to uneven tyre wear.
|
Sorry you're not having any luck with the back axle. If all else fails, it might be an idea to buy non-assymetric tyres and have a tyre dealer turn them on the rims after maybe 8-10,000 miles to even out the wear and get better mileage out of them. I was considering this initially before approaching the dealer to see about a replacement axle, although I was a bit concerned about fitting different tyres from the originals (assymetric Michelin Pilots)I see on some of the forums, however that some owners have tried out different brands of tyres quite successfully.
Graeme
|
Sorry you're not having any luck with the back axle. If all else fails, it might be an idea to buy non-assymetric tyres and have a tyre dealer turn them on the rims after maybe 8-10,000 miles to even out the wear and get better mileage out of them. I was considering this initially before approaching the dealer to see about a replacement axle, although I was a bit concerned about fitting different tyres from the originals (assymetric Michelin Pilots)I see on some of the forums, however that some owners have tried out different brands of tyres quite successfully. Graeme
I don't like mixing up tyres, as it can upset the handling of the car. This happened with our Xantia when I chose Avon tyres for the back end. It produced quite twitchy handling for a while and, even now, the handling is not as good as it used to be when the car was shod with four Michelin Energy tyres.
In addition, the C5 needs a hard wearing tyre, like a Michelin, on the front, as it is very heavy on tyre wear on the front end. Unless I can find a hard wearing non-assymetric tyre to go all round, it looks like I'm stuck with uneven tyre wear on the rear wheels.
|
|
|
|
Incidentally, my dealer is 70 miles away, but I make a point of going there because they are conspicuously good! They are listed in Honest John's good garages and I can see why!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
