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Stick with the Legacy. The only large estate to offer comparable driving and reasonable economy is the Mondeo with a TD engine, but you aren't going to get one worth having (reliable enough) for £4k
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I can't think of a single estate at reasonable money that will come anywhere near close in the handling and reliability stakes. Stick with it. You'd miss that lovely engine and the surefooted AWD handling.
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Thanks for all your thoughts. I had done the maths and it was a question of heart ruling head and change for the sake of it. 'Sammy Subaru the third' will remain as a member of the household...sorry I even thought about changing now !The only thing that came close for reliability was my old W124 E200 Merc aircraft carrier, sorry I mean estate,which although not agile, was built from granite and sooo reassuring for daily transport.
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I wish I'd asked your question 3 years ago! I fancied a change from my Scooby Do Legacy and the attraction of 10 mpg extra was appealing. Ever since, I've regretted it. Wet, slippery roads are now a trouser filling nightmare and I have to park on tarmac. The extra mpg has been more than wiped out by repair bills (never had one during 160k trouble free Subaru miles); there's so much more financial implication than simply mpg. The only thing it's worth swapping a Legacy for is ...another Legacy. I've never really understood why these cars are not more popular.
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They're not more popular because the average punter is scared of anything even slightly different and feels safe with the herd. I agree with you Mike, I can't understand why anyone buys anything else. Run-out Legacy saloons could be had for under £14k last year. Why the hell buy anything else?
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....and have you seen the new ones? Sports tourer no less; I'm saving up already! Maybe we should start a Subaru appreciation thread to show the herd followers what they're missing!
To set the ball rolling.... A few years ago, my wife (no, honestly) reversed my Legacy into a ditch on a narrow road. It was left with both nearside wheels hovering over the ditch with the car's belly on the tarmac. Even the AWD couldn't rescue it this time.
A forklift couldn't get in as the road was too narrow so we towed it backwards along the road (about 50yds) until the ditch ended. The noise was horrific and the tarmac was destroyed. A trail of oil appeared and I guessed the exhaust, sump and everything else was wrecked.
When it came out, it was covered in mud, grass and bits of tarmac; I mentioned the oil and the tractor driver said 'that's mine, the hydraulics leak all the time'.
I started the car and, as usual, it fired first time. No exhaust roar, just the usual. I drove it gingerly to a garage but it seemed fine.
The mechanic looked underneath and said 'this is in good nick, you've obviously never it had it off-road' 40k later, I sold it with no problems emerging from that day.
I doubt if any other estate car would have survived that!
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ok ok point made. As stated earlier, I shall now be keeping the estate for the foreseeable future as there seeme to be no alternatives in the reliability/value for money equation, especially when bought at three years old as mine invariably are ! Just wish I could afford to fuel up the 3 litre, or even the 2.5. Will have to make do with the 2 litre for the time being, at least until my friends 320d Touring comes up for sale in 12 months time.Here's hoping for filthy weather to maximise its qualities !
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MikeF,
Got a new Legacy on order, an ex-demo Outback model actually. Can't wait to take delivery and get back into a Subaru (currently in diesel due to same reasons as Legacylad ........)
They've made a great job on this now - drives fantastically, even in comparison to my old 2.5 4-cam estate.
This will be my 6th Subaru and your right - they are bulletproof.
JD
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I'm just waiting for someone to post that according to 'Reliability Index' they are only one from bottom of the pile in terms of unreliability - you would be so much better off with a Renault or Fiat!
(OK, OK, I'm only joking...).
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I like this idea of a Subaru lover's thread.
Buying my Impreza was one of the best decisions i ever made. It is an absolute joy to drive and in the 6 months I have owned the car nothing whatsoever has gone wrong. If only it wasn't so thirsty...
The Reliability Index thing amazes me. How can they possibly be so far out of step with all previous statistical and anecdotal evidence?
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Because it takes into account the cost of repair. Subaru claims have obviously cost them a fortune, although not many of them, they must cost a lot more than others. Having said that, I dont see why it should bother anyone who doesnt pay for the work themselves.
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Remember seeing a breakdown of spare parts by manufacturer, and Suburu had the most expensive spares by far of any of the non-supercar market segment.
I appreciate they are extremely reliable, but when they do need spares, their high prices are in Porsche territory.
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As the cars are so reliable maybe the parts are made to a higher spec than most so will cost more. They are dear though, £90 for brake pads! Worth it though, they're such fun to drive.
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My 1998 Impreza turbo is now on 122,000 miles and is a joy to drive, no problems at all apart from a problem at 1 month old fixed under warranty. As with all cars there are alternatives to using delaers for expensive replacements, Subarus have many specialists dealeing in new and second hand parts, my front brkae pads needed replacement at the last service, price £90 + fitting + VAT, bought the pads mail order (quality Texstar Pagid ones) £50 delivered, an hour of my time and money saved.
So IF your Subaru does go wrong, there are cheaper and good alternatives to Subaru main dealers... (plus most of the Subaru dealers near me have closed so I don't have much choice!!)
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Couldn't agree more. My 160k Legacy never saw a main dealer for servicing after £48k. All wearing parts were replaced with independent stuff and I never had a service bill higher than £140 (most were about £110). You have to offset part prices with the risk of having to actually buy them against 'normal cars' of cheap parts and frequent requirements. Add your own time and frustration of breakdowns and car off the road and I think reliable plus expensive wins everytime.
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I do all the routine servicing myself on my 2000W Legacy saloon now it is out of warranty. I am trying to find some pattern discs and pads but none of the factors I've tried so far can supply them for 2000 or later cars. Any suggestions? Or do I bite the bullet and go to the dealer?
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Nick, try AS Performance (excellent guys) on 0191 4103770 or Scoobysport on 01268 590085, they mainly deal witrh Imprezas but may be able to help. Failing that Halfords sell Ferodo stuff and Partco sell Mintex pads, unsure about discs though. Good luck.
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>>>>My 160k Legacy never saw a main dealer for servicing after £48k.>>>>>>
I'm not surprised LOL.
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"..there's so much more financial implication than simply mpg"
Absolutely, but as long as people exaggerate its importance, big durable cars will be cheap, and small, easily worn out ones will be overpriced. Long may it continue!
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Die dulci fruere!
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I have to disagree there, the Primera not only handles better than any other car I have driven (I so miss every one of my 3 Primera's I owned). OK, so you may ask why I got rid, well, the last one (a 2000 1.8 Sport) was a Company car, and when I changed jobs I needed a diesel as I am doing 30 - 35k miles a year, and the SEAT Leon was a good buy, but I would give anything to have my old 1998 2.0GT back (my mum owns it now). It would easily average 37-39mpg, was quick, and as a motoring magazine stated at the time, could show a Celeca GT4 a thing or two along a fast windy road.
In your case I'd stick with the Subaru, but when you do have to replace it I would recommend a late old shape (2000 - 2002) Primera 2.0 Sport Estate.
Neil T
SEAT Leon TDi 150, Toledo 20VT Sport, Various Montegos...
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I tried Legacy, Primera, Avensis and Mondeo when I bought my Legacy and the Legacy was streets ahead in handling. Basic physics dictates that AWD will perform better than 2WD. Check out the Subaru website for an explanation of the benefits of an AWD system. Even allowing for the sales pitch, they are pretty much right.
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"Basic physics"
Not to mention the lower C of G afforded by a flat engine. Don't know why it's not a more popular configuration.
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"Not to mention the lower C of G afforded by a flat engine. "
That's what gave the original VW Beetle such 'outstanding' roadholding!
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"..original VW Beetle"
OK, OK - it takes more than just a low C of G, of course. Just think what the Beetle would have been like with an upright engine, though!
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>> ...Legacy was streets ahead in handling. Basic physics dictates that AWD will perform better than 2WD...
From a safety/grip POV I'd certainly agree with you. However purely from a handling POV I'm not sure that the "AWD is better than 2WD" argument is that clear cut.
Maybe the subject for a new post? (if it hasn't been done to death in the past already!)
Chad.R
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It probably has been done to death already, Chad. And agreed, handling is more than just grip, but it sure does help a lot. But given two cars the same other than one is 2Wd and the other AWD, I'd bet a pound to a penny the AWD would run rings round the 2WD.
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A few years ago a Car magazine (Performance Car?) took 2 Porsche 911s (996 model), one the standard 2wd version and the other the "Carrera 4" 4wd version round a test track. Same driver, same condtions, same number of laps in each car and took the average lap time. When the track was dry, the 2wd had a better lap time and was actually faster in each lap. When they wet the track the results were reversed.
Now I know that for the average driver (that would probably include me) an AWD car and I stress car not your SUV types would be ultimately safest but the point I'm trying to make is that AWD isn't always the best for performance/handling.
Chad.
P.S. I'd love to have a new Legacy Outback....
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Chad.R
I collect my new Outback in 2 weeks ....... it's an ex-demo 2.5 model with leather in grey/blue, veru sublte and very smart. Drives like a dream compared to my current diesel ......
Have you test driven one ?
JD
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Neil T
If you were so impressed with Primeras, why do they not get a mention on your "signature line"? The Montegos do though..... :)
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I knew someone would notice that. Unfortunatly when I was looking for a diesel I had to over look the Primera as it had an old indirect diesel engine that wasn't really that economical, now theres a new model with modern common rail diesel I may consider it togther with the Mondeo as a replacment.
The Montego's are a different issue, I use them as a cheap way into car club events, and track days. Contray to belief, a well setup Montego handles very well, and the proff is in the pudding, my 115bhp Estate with 130,000 miles on the clock was one of the fastest lappers of Alconbury and Bruntingthorpe at SEAT track days, the large majority of others cars had 150 - 220bhp, some 4x4, and it was torential rain at Alconbury. The best thing, it only cost me £100, so if it gets smashed I have no worries!!! :-)
Neil T
SEAT Leon TDi 150, Toledo 20VT Sport, Various Montegos...
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I should love to have seen the faces of the SEAT drivers... :-)
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Die dulci fruere!
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Interesting, NeilT. I had an Impreza, and just at the minute run an oldish Primera. The Primera HANDLES beautifully, but it certainly doesn't seem to have a lot of traction - it'll spin an inside front wheel relatively easily, or even an outside one on an undulating corner - seems as though it doesn't have a lot of suspension travel. Accelerate hard on entry to a bendy exit from a roundabout in the Impreza and it would just... GO, exactly where you wanted, no fuss, despite much more torque than the Nissan, which would be a handful if the surface wasn't flat and grippy.
And you've now got a Leon 150 TDi ? That's a car that takes my fancy rather a lot, but you're saying the Primera GT was better?
A Leon might be slightly too small for my needs, so by the sound of it I might as well just buy a Montego???
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If you want a good handling car, don't buy a Leon?. Although reasonably good on smooth surfaces, the "hard spring / soft shock" setup is terrible on bumpy twisty roads. Our Toledo 1.8t Sport is better (harder shocks and stiffer saloon body shell) but the Primera is light years ahead, even my old 1994 1.6LX was?. Agree though, wheel spin was bad, especially in the GT where power came in quite abruptly at 4500rpm.
My Leon started life as a Tdi SE 110, chipped at 20k miles, but still running without a problem at 88k miles. Rear leg room is very tight though, so it probably would be too small?.
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On the subject of good handling, we changed my wife's car a couple of months ago and got a Subaru Impreza 2.0 Sport (not the Turbo model) and I've got to say this is one of the best handling cars I've ever driven - I would say better, more balanced even than the Turbo I used to have.
It's a shame these non-turbo models get overlooked because they are corking little cars.
Cheaper to run, less nickable, and almost as much fun in real-world conditions.
We paid 5k for a 35,000 mile model W reg and so far it looks like a great little deal which has rekindled my enjoyment of just going for a drive for the sheer hell of it .....
JD
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NeilT,
Just out of interest, when you refer to your 'well set up' Montego, were you doing anything like altering springs/dampers/ride height/bushes/anti-roll bars/wheels+tyres, or just ensuring the standard components were in as-new condition??
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