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"The Speed Camera Thread - Volume 18" ****
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For the continued discussion of all things pertaining to Speed Cameras.
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This is Volume 17, 16 is closed but can be viewed here:
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There is no need to repeat anything since earlier volumes will not be deleted, although I am quite sure that this will not stop you.
A list of previous volumes can be found here:-
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No Dosh
Backroom Moderator
Mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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A changeof role at work means I will start doing 40,000 miles a year mainly in Kent and Sussex. I have an A4 1.8T (wish I'd chosen the 6 speed 1.9TDI now) and whilst I don't drive like a loon I do need rapid progress where it is safe.
My first week tells me that speed cameras and plod with a hairdryer are everywhere! So, time to invest in a detector.
Whilst I can read about them elsewhere, can anyone offer some advice based on their own experience ? What to buy, what to pay, what it will/won't detect and if it needs updating.
Also, how much does a speeding fine cost e.g. 48 in a 40 limit ?
Help really appreciated. Thanks.
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Hi Woody,
I'm not an expert by any means but I think that 48mph in a 40 limit would land you £60 fine and 3 points. WIth regards to the laser/radar detector, I think you will get more of an informed opinion from someone who knows more about these things.
Hope this is of some help...
Cheers
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After death, hair grows but phone calls tend to taper off
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You will find a fair amount of info on this subject on the following thread :-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=17...9
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Woody, This is a difficult area because there is not one piece of equipment that will cover all possibilities.
Radar detectors are good for Gatso's but you must invest at least £300 in a good one. cheap ones are just not worth having. Radar detectors won't protect you against laser or Truvelo.
Laser detectors are useless because the moment you are detected it is to late. The only option is a laser jammer - but these are probably not legal.
GPS based system are good for fixed Gatso's and Truvelo but are useless against laser and mobile Gatso's.
Nothing protects you against Vascar.
It's a case of working out what your biggest risk is? I would suggest laser mobile units are the biggest risk due to the fact that the unit operators have worked out the most effective locations to catch the maximum revenue. i.e. they will select safe stretches of road where the speed limit changes in order to catch people increasing their speed slightly early - that sort of tactic. Unless you are prepared to risk a laser jammer there is not much you can do about this except be very vigilant.
Any minute now somebody will say; 'why don't you just drive within the legal limit'. This is probably best advice most of the time.
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Any minute now somebody will say; 'why don't you just drive within the legal limit'. This is probably best advice most of the time.
Useful stuff already.Thanks.
As regards the above, I do obey limits as a rule, but some cameras and mobile plod are just so unreasonable.
Dual or 3 lane carriageways with a 40 limit (e.g. A3 Tolworth) where you need to change lane to come off. You can't accelerate into a space because plod have put a trap there to help fund policing of the next Save the Whale March.
This week I set off a camera in Hastings,going in from the Rye side. It is a wide road with no turnings on the stretch in question. It is 30mph but down a steep hill. What am I supposed to do, descend in 2nd gear. Absolute farce!
I am surely not alone in despising this police state to the extent that I would now not help the police on anything either motoring or non-motoring. No longer interested. I would do an a***n Wenger "I did not see it".
Grrrrrrrrrrrr.
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Nitpicking....A3 Tolworth......50mph limit
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>>I am surely not alone in despising this police state
I suspect that you're not alone in not knowing what a police state is, either.
Nonetheless, lets keep the comments a little less emotional.
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Have a look on here www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/
I use an old Morpheous Goedesy locator but it only "sees" fixed traps and can't detect radar.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Depends on your driving and your morals. If you get caught on 30mph/40mph you're asking for it but the motorways and NSL are different.
I worked in newcastle for a while while being based in the south. I used to zoom up late night, early morning with nothing else on the road. At that time, I reckon my only danger from the cops (aside unmarked cars) was laser guns on the motorways, therefore I equipped myself with a jammer. Worked brilliantly, saved me and the girlfriend several times, but as has been said only works against laser over large distances.
P.S. and they're probably illegal...
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Woody, buy the Snooper S6 Neo RLD.
It uses GPS to detect all static camera systems, radar detector and laser detector for mobile systems, it's saved me a few times now, and I have the smug satisfaction of giving a friendly wave to the hidden coppers.
Speak to Matt Harwood at Sextons (01622 683044) in Maidstone and tell him someone from the Supra BBS gave you his contact and he'll give you a good discount.
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Woody/Rob, The Snooper S6 Neo SLD is a high quality piece of kit well worth considering but it it not effective against laser mobile units. It will detect the speed camera but once it detects it is too late - they have you.
The only type of equipment effective against laser cameras is a jammer. Laser units are becoming more and more popular with the scamera partnerships for exactly that reason. I would do a web search for you local scamera partnership - or the ones in the areas you are likely to be driving in - and see what types of equipment they favour. I think you will find they are more or less all going towards laser.
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Rob C,
Excellent help and the Snooper S6 Neo RLD looks like the one for me. Easily found online at £370, are Sextons likely to get anywhere near that?
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I bought mine for £400, when the going rate was £500.
Jeds, fair point about the laser detector, ones only hope is a reflected signal from the car in front. Still better than nowt though, although before anyone says it again, not as good as sticking to the speed limit.
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Don't forget to factor in the cost of the subscription to the Snooper - to keep the scamera database up to date
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Just been caught at 60 in a 50 last friday: £60 3points, by one of these things, or at least I assume by a lasser as I saw than open backed white van 1/2mile away and was almost instantly going under 50, but the notice came yesterday.
Firstly is there any way out of this: Clear dual carragway where limit used to be national limit, changed last year down to 50, its rarely busy and there are never cues, plod's been having a field day ever since.
How accurate are these detectors from such a distance, can I ask for a tracable UKAS calibration certificate for the equipment?
Lastly, how much are these lasser jammer things anyway and how do they work....
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Brilliant site for info is www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk
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Drink Lager Talk Piffle
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"It is 30mph but down a steep hill. What am I supposed to do, descend in 2nd gear. Absolute farce!"
"I am surely not alone in despising this police state to the extent that I would now not help the police on anything either motoring or non-motoring. No longer interested. I would do an a***n Wenger "I did not see it"."
1) I find the peddle in the middle just the job for these situations.
2) I hope that was a throwaway remark - I wouldn't like to think that if my car was being cracked/wife pestered/house firebombed anyone would really stand by that statement, all because they don't feel that their motoring needs are adequately catered for by the police.
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re 2) well said, Jehovah. It's the individual lack of responsibility to the community and each other which causes half of the problems in the first place.
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Thanks to everyone for their comments. Just one more thing though....how effective are these on 'normal' roads. By that I mean 30 mph zones as the only time I have ever seen one is on a motorway. Incidentally, if you are zapped by plod's laser gun (don't worry - I haven't been...yet:-) are you pulled over there and then (even further up the road) or is it posted to you in the dreaded NIP? Thanks a lot
Adam
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After death, hair grows but phone calls tend to taper off
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Just to add to the subject..
Yesterday I passed a mobile unit that was setup 25 yards ahead of a static Truvelo on a 40mph dual carridgeway. Strange thing was I didn't feel twice as safe, must be a money making ploy after all......
Steve.
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Read about the SPECS hoax on the M6.
This evening however ,coming south from Lancaster, I noticed patches of transverse white lines. It was dark - what did I miss? Are there speed cameras associated with them?
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Jehovah,
I think this is a more complicated question than you make out. If your car was being cracked/wife pestered then by getting involved I would be helping you not (primarily) the police.
The police really have lost the confidence and respect of the public, this is not solely due to scameras but they don't help. Also the public is sick of the lies and spin that comes with them, they know the're being lied to and the old trick of just repeating the lies in a louder voice is not working anymore. Calling something the 's************ partnership' is not fooling anybody.
Some years ago I pulled a lone policeman out of a major kicking and still have a scar where the guys attacking him knifed me. These days if faced with a similar situation I really do not know what I would do but I know a lot of people who would shout 'give him one for me' and keep walking and this is because a lot of otherwise law abiding people have been criminalised for what they see as no good reason and been hit with fines/insurance hikes/lose of licence which has cost them dear and even lost them their livelihoods, meanwhile when they are robbed/assaulted/burguled no one gives a damn.
Resenting the police instead of their political masters may be like blaming the barman for the price of the beer but that is human nature.
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Some years ago I pulled a lone policeman out of a major kicking and still have a scar where the guys attacking him knifed me. These days if faced with a similar situation I really do not know what I would do but I know a lot of people who would shout 'give him one for me' and keep walking and this is because a lot of otherwise law abiding people have been criminalised for what they see as no good reason and been hit with fines/insurance hikes/lose of licence which has cost them dear and even lost them their livelihoods, meanwhile when they are robbed/assaulted/burguled no one gives a damn.
I'd still help him. He's a human being in need of help, so I would.
Grow up folks, these are speed cameras being talked about here, not the Thought Police.
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Just a little observation on the location of speed cameras - read in to it what you will....
On the A6 in High Lane just south of Stockport there is a fixed camera that has been there as long as I can remember. (I've been in the area over 6 years) I noticed recently that right by it there was a police 'Accident here' sign and a bouquet of flowers tied to the post it is mounted on....
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Well, either
a) it reinforces the fact that this camera is in a dangerous position
or
b) it demonstrates that cameras do not reduce accidents.
Either way, I find that bunches of flowers tied to lamposts are far more effective at slowing me down than speed cameras ever will be.
Cheers
Rob
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Perhaps we should set up a rival to the s************ Partnerships? A Safety Flower Bunches Partnership?
I agree, flowers make me think twice too. I would opt for (c), "all of the above", however.
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>>I would opt for (c), "all of the above", however.
Agreed.
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I find that bunches of flowers tied to lamposts are far more effective at slowing me down than speed cameras ever will be.
I've been thinking about this further, and I seem to remember a drive by HMG & local government to prevent people from putting these up. Apparently they distract drivers.
At the same time, there is of course the decision to paint s************s yellow to make them more obvious, i.e. more distracting.
If I ever manage to reconcile these two then I'll let you know.
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My thoughts exactly, Patently. Isn't it odd how these self same local authorities are extremely keen to sell advertising space on roundabouts, which are distracting with no real purpose, but when it comes to floral tributes that may slow people down and save a life are all too keen to get rid of them? Maybe they are hiding their own incompetence in addressing accident blackspots?
Cheers
Rob
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Just heard on R5 Live a story of someone who got GATSO'd in a 30 doing 51. He didn't think he was doing this fast so did some calculations from the picture and it proved from the distance travelled that he was in fact doing 13.4 mph.
As the commentator said, it brings into question how many people are fined when they are doing 28mph.
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There is a discussion running on this on another (ahem) forum.
Seems that they are claiming that the camera detected a "mirror ghost image" whatever tf that means.
What I want to know is, the camera took two photos, looking at both allowed the calculation of the true average speed. I thought that was what the twonks in the ticket office were supposed to do to corroborate the electronic evidence.
Clearly they knew they had two photos because they didn't send out two NIPs. Ref Gwent Constab vs ToTH. ;)
Clearly they didn't check the photos just like the case of the lorry doind 12 mph in a traffic jam, or the Scottish electric milk float magically transforming into a Beemer and hooning round the M25. Then we have the Welsh SCP which is refusing to automatically refund drivers it acknowledges have been wrongly convicted. How many more cases where the innocent party just bends over because its easier than standing up for their rights?
In order for a system to be accepted it has to be seen to be accurate, fair, impartial, necessary plus competently and accurately administered. Electronic speed enforcement fails on all those counts in my ever so humble opinion.
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Spoof on game shows in todays telegraph:
FINE!
5 contestants try to get through 6 months in UK without receiving a fine from any branch of government. Winner to get there own personal Gatso.
Well made me laugh...
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Tonight's BBC news also carried the story of the motorist sent a notice of intending prosecution (NOP) for doing about 50mph past a Gatso when his actual speed was 13mph. From what I saw from a quick view of the pictures, it looks likely it is a practical example of radar multiple reflection between vehicles that I predicted could happen (against the sceptics) in a thread some time ago now.
It shows the Gatso people DO just look at the speed printed on the picture and send out NOPs, on some occasions. In spite of the propoganda otherwise.
It emphasises the high handedness of the NOP carrying the statement "pictures will only be produced in court".
How the error can happen is the radar wave goes out and bounces off a departing vehicle but then comes back onto the back of an approaching vehicle, that is nearer than the departing one and could actually have already past the Gatso out of it's sight, and then bounces back off that 'approaching' vehicle onto the departing one and thence back to the radar.
Speed equals distance change per second. The path length change being measured here is caused by both vehicles extending the path. So you get roughly the sum of the two speeds. Rare but as I said, it could possibly happen and now we know that it does. Or so it appears.
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Perhaps it is time pictures of the offence were included with prosecution notices that are sent out? I really think it is off for someone to be forced to plead guilty before actually seeing the evidence against them. Plus if the evidence is patchy then the Scamera people should have the grace not to send them out in the first place, frankly.
teabelly
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This morning between approximately 7am and 8.30am, there was a mobile speed camera deployed outside Biggin Hill Airport.
So far, so good. But the "Safety Partnership" van was parked on double yellow lines, in a bus stop making it very difficult for me to drop and pick up passengers safely.
Who can I complain to? Would it be the Met, or Bromley Council?
Cheers
Rob
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I hope you pulled right up behind him and made sure you were blocking his view of all the motorists going by!
Police can park on double yellows in the course of their duties so I would complain to the Chief Constable and ask why they are setting such a poor example to other motorists in their inconsiderate behaviour. Are you sure it was a mobile speed camera not one of the ANPR vans?
teabelly
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Just reading a pro-scamera article in the Spectator and it states that no one has been more enthusiastic on scameras and tickets than Northamptonshire police (this I knew already) but that they are generating losses as the scameras have cost more to maintain than they have raised!
Holes in police budgets usually end up getting paid for via the local council tax. If this is a big number there may be riots!
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Just wondered if those forward facing speed cameras round birmingham way flash to take the pic or not?
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I thought forward-facing cameras had to have Infra-Red flash units on them, to avoid dazzling the driver and possibly causing him to crash.
In which case you won't know if it flashed you or not.
Perhaps, as you wait to see if the NIP turns up, you could consider suing 'them' for increased traumatic stress.
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They might plead a defence of ex turpi causa non oritor actio - i.e. it was your own fault if you didn't want to get stressed you shouldn't have exceeded the speed limit!
But that's another discussion entirely, of course...
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I was told that too, but I now know differently. They do indeed flash you. However, still waiting 3 weeks on for my ticket.
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Evening all,
I'm sure this has been dealt with before, but the archive is so vast it would take ages to find.
I understand that a prosecution for a speed offence must take place within 6 months of the offence. Indeed, this is what I have been told by someone who purports to know, but I recall those rally drivers on the Rally GB being prosecuted a year after their offences.
Is there a time during which the offender must have a NIP served on him?
My situation is: I set off a camera about 4.5 months ago. Heard nowt untill last month, when my wife, who is the registered keeper recieves a summons! The nature of the documentation is quite intimidating. Its also a load of nonsense, IMO, including my wifes name spelt incorrectly on one of the documents she needs to sign.
The original court hearing, next month, will be more than 6 months since I committed the offence. I doubt that they will even be able to send me a NIP within 6 months of the offence.
Where do I/we stand?
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H, the CPS only need to lay the papers before the court within 6 months. The court hearing can follow on later. The NIP must be posted to THE REGISTERED KEEPER within 14 days of the offence. You need to investigare why your wife didn't receive the NIP. Have you moved house? For further info please see:
www.pepipoo.com/
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London Scamera partnership have announced that 80 cameras can no longer be justified due to their siting.
In many cases the accident criteria has not been met for the road in question (i.e. a "safe" road has been targetted) and in others the cameras are sited in a manner that is not compliant with the guidance that allows the local authority to retain the fine (behind signs/bushes).
All 80 will be removed in April.
Yay!!!!
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All 80 will be removed in April.
On the 1st by any chance?
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Lol.
There was an in-depth article in the London Evening Standard last night. When I get five minutes I will see if I can find a link.
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hi all,had a few browser probs since chrimbo,and been unable to post, but all seems ok again now!!(hopefully).
read in our local paper just after xmas, that a little village near here, that is used regularly as a rat-run,(it cuts off just over 3 miles of the only main road (A595)up this part of the west coast)is to recieve i\'ts own hand held laser gun. this will be provided by cumbria police, who have trained thirteen of the local villagers in i\'ts use. these \"highway vigilantes\" (my phrase) will operate the gun in pairs, and note the registration numbers of any vehicle which exceeds the villages 30mph limit.
these numbers will then be passed to the police, who have stated that no prosecutions will be processed, but warning letters will be sent to the \"offenders\" home address. it then goes on to say that further action may be taken against repeat or persistant offenders. what form could this action take ? and would it be legal? due to how the information would of been obtained.
billy.
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Yes, the state used these tactics in the communist USSR, and we were taught to be revulsed by it, how ironic.
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I would at one time have taken the same attitude, but one of my aquaintances was hurrying to work early one day through a similar little village when the local papergirl stepped out from behind a wall, and he killed her. He had very little chance of avoiding her, but if he had been observing the limit she might have survived. Sorry, I don\'t have much sympathy with your argument.
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hi chaps,
please don\'t misinterpret my post, i\'m not expressing an \"attitude\" either for or against the scheme, i simply refered to the villagers as \"vigilantes\" as i am not sure quite which catergory to place them in, they are not police nor plain villagers,(when monitoring) but somewhere twixt and tween.
however that aside, i was simply curious as to what course of action would be open to the authorities with regard to \"regular customers\" of the now renamed \"village patrols\". (whole thread also edited. DD)
billy.
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As with all these things, whether it's a good or bad thing cannot really be judged without specific details.
On one hand, I can't stand the holier-than-thou, self-righteous, busy-body types who I would stereotype for this role. On the other hand, it makes my blood boil when the local Halfords Novas tear down our narrow road . I would love to be standing on the pavement with a camera in one hand and a book of tickets in the other - this in itself is a bit hypocritical - as I think I probably drove like that when I was 18 ;-)
There's no Truvelo in our road, but just round the corner there is one on an A road at the point where 1 lane spreads into 2 and heads out of the city. Never where they're needed - from a safety point of view, at least - but I think that's a different thread.
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This could just be a bit of a story but I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that in another little village they residents pestered police to do something about people speeding through so police set up a speed trap and guess what....yep a good proportion of the people caught speeding were from the village-dunno if they were the ones actually protesting that got caught, but still.
Surely you can't get nicked by a couple of civillians not even employed by the police, regardless of how many times you were tagged by their laser? Unless there was video evidence to corroborate?
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There is nothing by law that only Police can be witnesses/prosecute offences of speeding.
However, any person prosecuted can not be convicted soley on the evidence of one witness to the effect in his opinion the person was speeding. (Beginning to see why two?)
The offence needs corroboration (BiB's remember Pups?)so actually
one civvy forming the opinion a car was going at a fast speed can corroborate this by what appears of the handheld. That is sufficient to convict.
So feed back of persistent speeders they can be prosecuted PROVIDING NOIP is served with 14 days.
ACPO demand that users of handheld undergo a certain amount of instruction before sallying forth to persecute err prosecute
so that bits seems covered.
So, you villagers, if you:
measured out a certain distance (at least 2/10th mile with a certified correct tape,
put markers down and
using a certified correct stop watch, timed vehicles over distance to get average speed,
could send a written notification of an intention to prosecute for exceeding speed limit in 14 days showing time,date and place,
Take out a private summons at Mags Clerks Office
Job done.
Who needs cameras??
DVD
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This plan has been brewing for some time.
I suspect that the reluctance to prosecute based on the evidence of the locals stems from the fact that they do not have the impartiality of the police officer. Thus, whilst a particular prosecution may be well founded in the evidence, there is no assurance that all drivers are being treated equally. In other words, the police would not know who was not being prosecuted - if the local publican (say) had been seen speeding many times but never recorded in return for other favours etc.
IIRC, the police planned to write to the motorists who were caught and let them know in the hope that they would realise that they were not immune from detection. If they kept seeing the same names or kept seeing serious speeds then they intended to drop in one morning with a proper speed trap and prosecute. At least then their efforts would be properly targeted.
I have to say I have an open mind on this idea. In its favour, it focuses speed enforcement where it is needed - in the villages where people are at risk and children are being dropped off at school etc. It's far better than putting Gatsos on safe open stretches of road, which is a rather more common sight these days. My concern is that it by its very nature it will attract busybodies, but one person's busybody is another's valued local volunteer. So long as it is watched carefully, I think it should be tried.
I do also have some sympathy for the villagers who were caught by the speed trap that they asked for. Many villages are stuck on rat runs used by drivers travelling through, only interested in making progress and with no concern for the village itself. There are 4 such vilages on my route to work. The villagers must have been sick to the back teeth of being put at risk every time they step out of their door, with nothing being done about it. I'm not surprised they got a bit lax about their own speed.
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The proposal of villagers doing this seems to me to contain all the speed camera arguements in a nut shell.
The need for the cameras in these villages is obvious but the cameras aren't there, they are stashed behind signs on the local dual carriageway where the limits been dropped to 50.
If there is a need for these villagers to set out with a laser gun then there is a problem that needs to be adressed. Why is not a camera sited in the village? Answer, there is probably only an issue twice a day at commuter time and therefore the camera would never raise enough revenue to cover its costs.
So, are the villagers the answer? Sadly no. I was brought up in a small village and I know the sort of individuals that would be attracted to this. They would get themselves a uniform (with their own money) and once they get a whiff of official approval would be setting up road blocks and trying to lynch 'offenders'. Locals would be either exempt or persecuted depending on which side of the current village fued they were on and non-locals would be targeted because they drove certain cars, wore turbans etc, etc. A nightmare waiting to happen.
So, the answer? Use speed cameras for regulating speed where needed not raising revenue and place them where they are needed to achieve this aim. Simple really.
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totally agree thommo, with your last paragraph particularly.
but i can also identify with the sort of people you mention, that would just love to do this job, sort of community leaders of the harper-valley p.t.a variety :-).
billy.
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I heard on the midnight news on radio 2 that some prison chief somewhere is complaining about the four fold increase in speeding motorists being sent to jail. i personally think that it's ludicrous that other "less savoury" people are being let out with tags because the prisons are full.
Draw your own conclusions.
PS - can't find anything online to back up the article.
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But PDC speeding motorists are the cause of all problems in our society they are on the same level as child molesters according to the editor of the New Statesman.
So surely we should jail them all, as for those nice drug dealers and burglars they are not causing anyone who matters any real problems, let them all out...
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Just a reminder to all those unfamiliar with the area.
The M42 cameras on the stretch through the road works from M40/M42 jn to a couple of mile south of M42 jn 6.
They are live, have been for weeks and are catching mamba numbers of drivers.
I go though at dead on true 50 (calibrated speedo) and every trip see cameras flashing at people who are not going that much faster than me.
Estimated trigger speed to be ~ 57/58; definitely < 60 I would reckon.
There are also mobile vans about.
Don't intend to get drawn in to a discussion about the limit or the cameras. Just information trying to save points, which in this case definitely do NOT make prizes.
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I'm travelling from Worcester to Junc 19 of the M6 this week. I would like to know if anyone knows the definitive answer as to whether there are Cameras on the M6. I don't want any surprises.
Thanks
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The definitive answer is it doesn't matter as you will be stuck in a traffic jam .
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They're some specs cameras on thelwall viaduct on gantries above the road, last time i went past they had orange sheets behind them so you could see. The limit in this area is 40 and lot of people go faster than that but i'm sure the cameras are working. Other than that the only other cameras i know of are the ones between J34 and 35 which are gatso cameras but i think these are still not active as they had "not in use" covers on them last time i saw them
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Coming home from work this evening about 7.30 via the same route as always, there is part of my journey which is on a 40mph section of dual carriageway.
You climb a moderate hill away from a set of lights so everyone is accelerating to 40ish mph. once over the brow of the hill the descent without acceleration will carry you on to about 50 mph.
In the distance there was something parked on the pavement. When I got closer I could see it was the police in a transit type van with the rear doors of the van open and a camera mounted inside.
Surely this sort of covert, revenue generating, law-flexing behaviour can't be legal. This is not an accident black spot. It is a long stretch of road which bends very slightly to the right. The road was not excessively busy, it was dry and visibilty was excellent for the time of night. (but not excellent enough to spot an unmarked van!!!) The Van was approximately a quarter of a mile from the brow of the hill. The rear of it bore no indication it was a police vehicle, it was only when passing it it became evident what it was and what was going on.
I was sitting at 50 which is 10mph in excess of the limit. But surely this method of detection cannot be legitimate. I intend to make a complaint tomorrow, but the good old Police Service of Northern Ireland are likely to deny it was there. If I had a camera with me I would have photographed the thing just to proove a point. Guess I just have to sit back and wait on the postman.
Any comments - advice.
Leon
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ANPR catching crooks perhaps ?
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Usual response to the "camera in a van" post is...are you sure it wasn't ANPR rather than speeding?
Whatever, I don't like underhand tactics but at the end of the day the way to not get ticketed is not to speed.
btw that was a statement, not a preach - I reset my trip computer when leaving the centre of Glasgow on Saturday for home in Berkshire. Managed an *average* 83 mph, and never went over 100 on the clock! 4h 51m incl refuelling stop - best time yet for that trip! The roads were just perfect... :-)
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Smokie, that is some going.
I travel 90miles to and from work - all motorway and dual carriageway but with two sets of traffic lights. Despite, (i'm ashamed to say) cruising at upto 100mph (when "safe", obviously) I've only managed to avereage 70 on the trip computer. Those traffic lights are a killer!
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So there is a 40 limit (reasonable or otherwise) and motorists are habitually breaking it?.
Enforcement by Police traps is nothing new. When I were a kid (1970's) they were always on the A658 Harrogate road by Leeds Airport. Limit was 30 but road opening out on one side tempted drivers up to 40+ and they were caught like flies. They still are now the road is dualled and in cut and cover under the runway.
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I agree a stock reply. But an easy mistake to make (done it myself. Cops can't win. Everyone moans them targetting speeders and how they should be out catching crooks. When they find a damned efficient way of catching crooks everyone moans about that.
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Although I totally agree with your sentiments, I'm afraid that if you break the rules and get caught you have to take it on the chin - no matter how crap the rules are & regardless how sneakily they catch you!
That said I don't think you can be fined in this situation. Don't they need some secondary proof in form of a photo? There are some places that contain the requisite road markings for temp cameras though I believe these still need to be signposted.
More likely, there was probably a patrol car/bike further along the way waiting to discuss the indiscretion with the worst offenders. I've seen this on the A34 - camera in transit on bridge over carriageway and 3 bikes lined up on the slip road.
I do hope I'm right and you hear nothing more.
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You boys should try the driving experience across here.
I have had police jump out at me from behind walls, hedges trees and various other things in the days of the hand held radar gun. NI being how it is, is not the ideal place to jump out on a motorsit from behind a hedge or whatever!!!
Was telling a friend about this experience earlier. He told me he regularly sees this sort of trap set on a roadside filling staion's forecourt.
Guess this is waht the peace dividend has bought us. Before the RUC as was, were too tied up in anti-terrorist activity to care what speed you did.
suppose almost 13 years driving at 30,000+ miles per year and no fines or convictions to date aint a bad record, for one who occasionally lit up the tyres in the days when he had a proper car.....
Leon
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They have them in Derby too Leon. These look exactly like aa Ambulance from the rear with the two large doors open.
When I first saw one parked outside a residential area I could see the Paramedic (as I thought) leaning over a piece of equipment on a tripod or similar which I naively took to be oxygen or similar.
It was only as I passed that I realised he was one of those nasty Policeman. And to add insult to injury it said Derbyshire Safety vehicle (or similar) on the side.
Quick look at the speedo showed I was slightly over the top but no envelope dropped through the letterbox.
The only thing you can really look for is that the speed limit is clearly shown. I have noticed in my area that the 30mph signs are not displayed in the direction I was going but are in the opposite direction. Radio Derby do give regular updates on where these mobile cameras are located each day so at least there is some warning.
You may well be lucky as speedometers generally read over your speed and you were one of slower vehicles. Good luck...
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Adrian - and no cheating was involved, except zeroing the trip computer when on the M8 in the centre of Glasgow instead of outside the hotel...I only live about 1 mile from the motorway this end, so pretty muc completely door to door was motorway/good A road. I didn't use the M6 toll either.
I liked it when SmartNav said "follow the M6 for 199 miles..." -I was leaving before the end - made me wonder how long the longest road in the UK is.
I expect I will get lots of fan mail within 14 days...
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Would love to do something in the style of Dom Joly with one of these.....
www.abd.org.uk/speed_camera_signs.htm
Leon
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Courtesy of The Register, www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/35014.html
Since we Brits already hold the land speed record as a result of jet-powered Thrust SSC going supersonic in 1997, it seems only natural that we should attempt to be the first nation to break the sound barrier with a petrol-driven reciprocating-engined vehicle.
That at least appears to be what sales manager Peter O?Flynn was attempting when clocked at an impressive 406mph (653kmph) by a speed camera in Cheshire.
The achievement becomes even more admirable when we learn that Peter was at the time at the controls of a humble Peugot 406, until now thought to have a top speed of 129mph.
Heroic Peter is modest about his tremendous effort, insisting: "I rarely speed and it?s safe to say I?ll contest this." Officials, however, say Mr O?Flynn still faces prosecution despite the obvious attack of insanity which afflicted it speed (sorry, safety) camera.
This superb piece of bureaucratic madness is just the latest chapter in the ongoing saga of the government's war against speeding motorists. We look forward with eager anticipation to police slapping the cuffs on the first OAP to reach hypersonic velocities in a battery-powered disabled buggy.
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"That at least appears to be what sales manager Peter O?Flynn was attempting when clocked at an impressive 406mph (653kmph) by a speed camera in Cheshire.
The achievement becomes even more admirable when we learn that Peter was at the time at the controls of a humble Peugot 406, until now thought to have a top speed of 129mph."
Clearly its an administrative error. Like the old biddy getting a NoIP for 380 mph instead of 38.0 or something similar.
So just imagine.......
What would the best course of action really be?
Let things take their course? Go to court and get it dismissed on a technicality and give everyone a good laugh, egg on face of various parties.
Maybe it would get picked up in case preparation and submission of your defence? Then egg on your face.
Point out the error and allow them to get act in order? After all you know whether you were there & if you are guilty or not. Oh yes I think that you do!!
What about the 14 day rule in this case? CPS/SCP to take another route thus getting 6 months to lay matters before the beak? Could they? Yes but would they?
Comments and incisive thoghts from legal beagles eagerly awaited.
Pause for DVD to crank up PC and type "In 19XX Mr Justice Wibblebottom pronounced in the case of......."
Let's face it, got to get pound of flesh for all this pension money I'm stuffing in Prudence's direction!
Only kidding DVD
FiF
PS I've bowed down and tipped my cap to NY Plod on that other thread!!
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It does bring the accuracy of the system into question, though. This particular case can be laughed out of court, but it rather makes a mockery of camera 'calibration', unless it really is just a typo.
On a related topic, if you pass three or four cameras in succession (fast enough to trigger them), do you get separate NIP's? I only ask, because there used to be a requirement under the old 'totting-up' procedure for the cases to be heard in the correct chronological order. I know because, many years ago, I found this out just in time to hang on to my licence...
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3421867.stm
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Yep, you\'ve guessed it. This\'ll get moved to the relevant speed camera thread shortly.
DD, BR Moderator.
{See, I told you it would.}
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If we moved to fines only instead of points for minor infringemets, then as mentioned in the article a major part of the deterrent has gone. Rich folk would just view it as a price to pay for slightly swifter motoring.
Suerly the answer is a fine for a first minor offence, but another offence in a short period of time attracts a double fine plus two points, another will generate a triple fine and three points, or some other scaling up of the punishment.
Then Grandma who makes a mistake once in her own village gets just a fine, and is unlikely to repeat, and the serial offender soon ends up with lots of points and big money/disqualification, as now.
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Got to agree Dipstick - serial speeders, dangerous drivers, the uninsured etc. need to be dealt with effectively but the genuine one-off mistake shouldn't necessarily be punished with points. Also agree with you about the wealthy possibly abusing such a system and simply paying up for the 'privilege' of being able to break the law whenever they want.
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... the genuineone-off mistake shouldn't necessarily be punished with points.
But if it really is a genuine one-off mistake, you wouldn't be accumulating enough points for it to matter.
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Ah, but if we changed then maybe the insurance companies WOULD actually care about a point, instead of not caring about three, as now. If most people didn't get a point, just a fine, because they only transgressed once, then that's ok. Even one point would then show you were at the least careless, and so it becomes worth while for the insurance company to penalise you.
As to the wealthy having their own rules; Mrs Dipstick's old boss was a rich man. He used to park his Merc S Class right outside the office on a double yellow in a tiny Cambridge street every day. Got so as the wardens would fine him £60 a day - and he just viewed it as a parking fee and paid, thanks very much. Easier than walking half a mile from the nearest carpark, and blow anyone it inconvenienced.
(There's no tow away in Cambridge. There used to be for a while, but it was ditched years back. But the signs haven't been ditched, so I assume they are to act as a deterrent for tourists.)
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Dipstick
Oh how I would like to have let all his tyres down every day until he got the message. What a lazy arrogant unspeakable!
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Now now, as seen in another thread, letting the tyres down is "criminal damage". And this bloke would have had you in court in a second if he thought he needed to, probably with a QC fighting his corner.
It's a different world when you're loaded.
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>>about the wealthy possibly abusing such a system and simply >>paying up for the 'privilege' of being able to break the law >>whenever they want.
Where as the unwealthy can use this method
www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-12978098,00.h...l
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Why not also grade the points according to how serios the breach was - e.g. how fast over the limit, school nearby, etc?
Mattster
Boycott shoddy build and reliability.
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I read in an article in todays Telegraph stating that online insurers www.protection-insurance.com is offering cover from being banned from driving after being caught by speed cameras.
The premium of £50 p.a the FlashProtect policy offers up to £6,000 in reimbursement for taxi , bus and even airfares.
The policy only covers motorists with less than 6 points on their licence when the cover is taken out.
The company product and development manager Jason King ( now theres a name from the past - 1970's detective - who was it played him ? - Peter somebody??? was it Wyngarde ?) said that the purpose is to help responsible drivers who are convicted of speeding carry om with their lives - but more slowly.
It actually seems like good value to me for someone who really depends on their car.
The article asks however does it encourage speeding like the St Christopher policy that covered drink drivers was supposed to encourage drinkers ?
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A new camera has gone up on the Seven Sisters Road north London.
It is obscured by a Red Route sign as you approach it.
Although there have been some seriuos accidents in that vicinity during the last couple of years, they have all been BEFORE the site of the camera as you approach it and one was with an island that is no longer there.
Who do I approach to get the thing removed?
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Contact your local camera partnership. The partnership working with the Met in London recently announced that they were removing over 80 cameras that were sited in breach of Home Office guidelines. I would say you would be in with a fair chance with this one.
Details of the London partnership can be found here : www.transportforlondon.gov.uk/streets/lscp/index.s...l
Let us know how your enquiry is received!
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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There is supposed to be a large article in tomorrow's Motor Cycle News about camera sites. I am assuming it is going to have proof that a large proportion are not sited according to govt guidelines as it was mentioned on the safespeed mailing list :-)
teabelly
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Thanks, No Dosh
I'll give it a go.
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That mistake in the rules for camera placement is absolutely pfd-ing amazing.
namely that the 85th percentile limit must be higher than the ACPO enforced speed limit (usually SL+10%+2mph)
True enough its there in the DfT's own paper. How the devil has it been missed all these years.
Brown stuff heading fanwards now methinks!
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am I being cynical in thinking this might be part of the "zero tolerance" approach. Can't be too many places where the 85th percentile does not exceed 31 mph
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HI
I just had to share this.!..On Wednesday during the heavy snow and ice storm there was a moblie speed camera on the A12 near Gallows Corner in Essex. As most cars were going at about a half of the 50 mile limit..I wonder how one could justify the manpower for this!
Alan
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Alan,
Despite the 16% rates increase last year in Chelmsford, the town was just about gridlocked on Wednesday night.
In todays DT there is a story about a lady who gave birth in the traffic jam - nice touch, many drivers blew thier horns when the baby was born with an Ambulance in attendance.
The local paper is trying to check if she was pregnant at the start of the journey.
Matt35.
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Perhaps he couldn't get back to the nick?
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