Usually consisting of one or more tins of R134 freon and a hose (some equipped with a gauge) to connect to your aircon lines. Has anyone come across them in the UK?. I have used them with success in the past while living in the US, but not sure if they are available in the UK. Below is a link from a US site detailing what I am after.
www.id-usa.com/spkits.htm
Thanks
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I have not come across them in the UK but they must surely exist.
I would just urge caution for those that think they could just connect and top up.(This is not having a pop at trancer)
There is much more to servicing an aircon unit that topping it off.
a. How much gas has been lost?
b. Is the system leaking?
c. Has moisture entered the circuit? (almost certainly if there is a leak and system empty)
d. How much gas consitutes a full charge?
e. How will you know when system performance and charge is to spec?
Basically, you need the kit to identify/find and repair leaks, remove moisture from the system (vacuum pump), HP/LP gauge set calibrated for the gas in use, and a modicum of understanding of refrigerant theory, the refrigerant circuit of the vehicle and its control circuits.
It ain't difficult with the knowledge AND the kit but then neither is brain surgery I suppose!!;-)
NormanB
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I don't think these have yet been unleashed on the UK general public.
Norman has covered pretty much all the points involved in recharging properly, but the kit manufacturers fail to mention any of these. They usually also contain some kind of sealant, which doens't work, but what it does do is screw the system up, guaranteeing a bigger bill in the end. They're known in the trade over in the US as 'death kits', as it's easy to kill the system when you can't weigh in the correct amount, pull a vacuum, and monitor high side pressures. Plus, of course, if you have a leak (which is probably why it needs recharging in the first place)then you'll still have the same leak, as leaks don't have a habit of fixing themselves, unfortunately.
You can buy R134 in 1kg cans, to which you can buy a hose, coupler(s), gauges etc. But be quick, as forthcoming EU regulation is going to ban the sale of refrigerant in disposible containers, which means you'll need to buy 15kg at a time.
If you're serious about recharging properly, you can buy basic components for a reasonable price. But a/c can be tricky stuff, with many interelated issues that need to be understood and taken into account. It's preferable to do it properly, and only have to do it once.
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All cautions fully understood and taken on board. I do know that aircon is out of the realm of the average "driveway oil change" DIYer, but for my purposes I do ok with it. I have done a conversion from R12 to R134 using a "death kit" which lasted 3 years (sold the vehicle after that) and I have topped up other cars without incident. Many kits have hoses with an inline gauge which, granted is not as good as proper 3 dial ones, but it is enough to tell you when you have reached full charge.
R134 was cheap enough in the US to the point that a small leak requiring a top up every 2-3 months was not a problem and the "band-aid" quick fix was much more cost effective than a professional repair even in the long run. Of course I am not expecting to find R134 as cheaply here.
Would you care to share your source of R134 1kg cans and kit, Dave?. I have an older car which is valuable to me, but as AC isn't something I feel I can't live without I am not willing to spend what many outfits charge for a proper service/re-gas. The car was bought with non-working AC and I wanted to see if it was just low by trying a recharge. If the recharge doesn't do the trick or it has a massive leak then the AC will remain non-working. Basically,if a quick, cheap fix doesn't do it, I am done.
Thanks
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I've been told that all aircon systems will leak slightly and need topping up every few years. Is this true?
I also have an older car with aircon which needs topping up. Been thinking about getting one of those mobile guys round...
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I've been told that all aircon systems will leak slightly and need topping up every few years. Is this true?
Yep, approx 5 - 10% a year. Never understood why manufacturers use aluminium pipework, which is porous. Why not use stainless?
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My guess is that the 'normal' annual seepage (as opposed to leaks arising from defects) would be via the mechanical seal in the compressor particularly if left stationary for long periods. I believe the general advice is to run the aircon weekly (for say 15 minutes).
Of course if there is an electo magnetic drive to the compressor then a mechanical seal is unnecessary and so annual seepage would be much reduced.
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Annual leakage should be very small, and it should take a good number of years before you really notice. So if you notice a substantial loss before about 7/8 years, then it has a leak.
Small tins of refrigerant are available from SRW in Shoreham, and Dean & Wood probably also do them.
For those contemplating the DIY route, there's a number of issues that you need to understand.
Firstly, it is illegal to knowingly vent refrigerant into the atmosphere, and this includes recharging a system that you know to have a leak, unless it is done for leak detection purposes.
If you have an old R12 system, then you will also need, as a minimum, to add Ester oil, as the old mineral oil won't mix with the latest refrigerant, therefore you'll get no lubrication of the compressor. The correct grade of oil isn't available from commercial refrigeration outlets, only from specialist car a/c suppliers. And do us specialists a favour and clearly label what has been done/put in the system, so further down the line we don't get our equipment screwed up by someone elses bodging!
If you have an R12 system, then it's quite likely the service ports are both the same size, so be sure to charge by vapour through the low pressure side only. If you try and charge through the high pressure side, then the can will explode in your hand/face as it's not designed to withstand the pressure from this part of the system. If you overcharge the system because you're not monitoring the HP side, then any part of it could also blow up in your face. So you've been warned!
Maybe those that moan and groan about the high cost of recharging and fixing a/c properly would like to take into account the cost of equipment and expertise required.
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Thanks for your tips, Dave. I have looked up SRW and Dean & Wood, but they appear to be trade only suppliers, further evidenced by my attempts to register on their websites (necessary to view their offerings) being ignored and/or rejected.
Does anyone else have any links to Air con suppliers who sell to the public?. If R134 is considered a controlled substance (like R12)in the UK, then I don't expect to get very far, but I haven't seen evidence of that yet.
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R134a isn't a controlled substance, so you should find some someplace. Try phoning SRW and go from there. If they no longer have 1kg tins, then you may have to buy a 13.6kg disposible. You may find there's no demand for 1kg tins, so no-one stocks them, or will only sell them in cases of 12.
By the time you've fannied about, why don't you just fix it properly yourself and get it recharged some place locally. Most parts aren't more than a couple of hundred pounds, and you can fit them yourself. Let us know what car it is, and where it's leaking, and see if there's anhy further advice we can offer.
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The car is a BMW '95 520i and the thing is I don't know if it is leaking or indeed why it does not work. There were no tell-tale oily spots on the compressor or lines. The compressor does not engage which could be due to low freon pressure and I was willing to try a re-charge to see if that was the case. I have a service manual ordered and upon arrival I will be delving into the electrical side of it a bit more hoping for a broken clutch wire (fuses have already been covered). If that doesn't do it I would not be willing to spend much more on it, certainly not hundreds of pounds you suggested.
I know I am the odd one, but fannying about on the cheap kinda appeals to me. 8-)
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Trancer, there's a few ways to tell if it's low on gas. Firstly, you can depress one of the charge valves (taking the usual precautions). Or put 12v down the wire to the compressor and see if the system cools, if it does, you have an electrical problem. Or, check for continuity across one of the switches mounted on the receiver drier. Can't remember off hand which one it is, but if you don't have continuity across any of them, then you have no gas.
Almost without exception, every E34 I see has a busted condensor. Get a good torch and look at the bottom right hand corner, where the inlet and outlets are, and I'll bet you see a bit of crud or dust stuck to the fins. Take a good look all over for a slightly dark or dirtier patch. R134 doesn't leave a nice oily stain for long like old R12 systems used to, but it usually sticks around long enough to attract a bit of dirt.
You may also find the fan in front of the condensor is siezed solid, and these cost more than the condensor itself, but it should be working all the time the a/c button is in.If this isn't running, and it's not siezed, then again it's probably low on gas.
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Thanks again for your help Dave. I have a Bentley manual arriving sometime this week and armed with that I will feel better about investigating the problem. If it is a straight forward fix such as replacing condensor then I may consider doing it. At that point I would just go to an AC specialist for a vacuum and recharge.
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