I would think:
Pulley fails, belt falls off, no PAS etc. Whilst belt is falling off it may trash parts of the engine / underbosy kit. Part of pulley may fly off and cause damage. Worst case I guess is that the old belt finds it way inside the cambelt cover and rips that off too. Then it gets expensive.....
Mate of mine had a drive belt go on a V6 Fraud Probe when he was doing ahem mph. Cost him about £600 to get it fixed....
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Thanks for that. Reason I was asking is I've got a rattle from a cold start. Off to the garage for me then to check it out....
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I had this problem on my 2000 Diesel Astra. I just happened to look in the engine bay one Saturday morning and noticed this round thing lying happily on the engine tray. Once recovered I noticed it was the cast iron anti-vibration/dampener ring off the crankshaft pulley, it had just sheared off.
I don't recall when it might have happened, as I didn't hear anything but I remember thinking I got off lightly with no damage.
One of the things I always inspect for now......
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It would appear thet even Peugeot salesmen are trained in detecting this noise; one of our customers came into us after having a noise pointed out to them at the local Main Dealer by a passing salesman....
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Dieselboy wrote:-"Thanks for that. Reason I was asking is I've got a rattle from a cold start. Off to the garage for me then to check it out...."
What car have you got?
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It's a 2000 406 HDi. The rattle has been worrying me for a while, but it's recently got more noticeable.
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Sounds quite likely - get it seen to before it gives real trouble.
Please let us know how it works out!
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It’s booked in the main dealer next Monday, so we shall see what they say.
In the meantime, I’m using my girlfriend’s car for the 100 mile a day commute to work, just in case things go horribly wrong. 1998 Corsa 1.4s are not relaxed cruisers!
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If you have got a warrantyu from Warranty Direct - like you were talking about in July - it would be covered !
Duncan McCLure Fisher
MD Warranty Direct
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Duncan,
I welcome your participation, it certainly adds to the expertise we have in here.
However, could I ask that, where you are talking about warranties, you continue to identify yourself as you have here.
If its on another subject, then identify yourself or not as you choose.
Thank you.
Mark.
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Unfortunately not! I didn't take the warranty cover out in the end.
Ah well. With the benefit of hindsight and all that.
I may drink, but I'm not a drunk.
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DL - an update on my 406....
Just about to pick the car up from the main dealer. They have checked all things that can make a rattle at start up, including the crankshaft pulley, and everything is fine.
They're not going to charge for the time taken, and they have carried out the boot lock modification that Peugeot recalled 406s for a while ago.
However, if it wasn't for the advice given in the BR, I would probably be none the wiser and driving round in a potential cash pit!
Thanks.
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Ah...........the old boot lock mod, eh? I think the boot would open with a firm clout in the right place if I recall correctly...
Well, you'll just have to see what develops I guess, if everything has been checked then you'll just have to monitor it.
Did they get to hear the noise?
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No, when I dropped it off it was warm, and it only makes the rattle when the car has been left overnight and is started from cold.
As you say - I'll just have to monitor it....
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So they never saw it cold?
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Well, I don't think it would be completely cold, neither totally warmed up. It would have been sat outside the garage for an hour or two before they arrived for work (lazy people - I'm in work at 6.30am!). The drive to the garage, which is near my work, was 45 miles from home, so obviously the engine would have been at optimum operating temperature when I left it.
They assured me that all possibilities were looked at, and inspections yielded nothing. I guess if things do go wrong, I'll just blame the service manager at the Peugeot dealer I took it to!
Thanks again for your advice.
Ho-hum.
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hmm, just read this and its got me worried! Ive got a 99 T xsara HDI, it doesnt rattle upon startup- only as you drive and the revs rise up, and it does seem to disappear when it warms up I think. most noticeable at 2-3000revs. Does this sound like the pulley job?
eek!
Cheers
Paul
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Someone's been searching ;) well done!
Sounds like it - but I'd have a look at the pulley and see if there is any evidence of it breaking up, looking at the area around the securing centre bolt.
Also check for a green sort of 'dust' around and on the pulley, that's another sign.
--
groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Wow, it isnt Dr Dave is it? Hope you are well mate! mg-rover.org isnt the same without you!
Ill check it out, a few hdi owners seem to say its a 'characteristic of this engine', Im not too sure though!
Cheers
Paul
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Someone's been searching ;) well done! Sounds like it - but I'd have a look at the pulley and see if there is any evidence of it breaking up, looking at the area around the securing centre bolt. Also check for a green sort of 'dust' around and on the pulley, that's another sign.
Hi dave, would you mind looking at these pics of my pulley (ho ho!)and seeing what you think? No green dust but there is some orangey sort of dust.
Heres the link,
www.boby.freeservers.com/photo.html (made using a dodgy site builder, could be bothered deleting all the generic photos that were left on there!)
If anyone has any comments they would be very much appreciated!
Cheers very much
paul
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Hi Paul ;)
Yep, that looks like what I'd expect to see when a pulley fails; the dust is indicative of internal damper failure/breakup.
I might be mistaken but GSF (Used to be German & Swedish) sell these pullies far cheaper than Citroen & Peugeot
515P2 is the part number for the Citroen part - about £100+VAT
--
groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Where are you based Paul?
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Hi Dave, noooooo! Oh well at least Ive managed to catch it in time. Would you not chance driving it around at all?
Im in Widnes Cheshire.
Thanks D
Paul
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Dave do you think its a job I could do myself or best left to a mechanic? Usually the most I stretch too is oil and filter change but I did take out the injectors on my rover 220sdi and did a wheel bearing and glowplugs! (im learning!). Is it a hard one to do? Just lock it in place remove belt and fit new pulley! typing it like that makes it sound so easy! Everything seemed much easier on the rover!
ta
Paul
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It won't fall apart just yet Paul...so don't worry about it falling apart when driving etc.
Shame you're not closer, you could have borrowed one and tried it, just to be sure.
The centre bolt will be quite tight, so an air impact gun is needed to shift it. It's that simple - undo bolt, remove pulley and refit new pulley making sure the dog drive is aligned correctly.
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Cheers Dave, I might give it a bash and see how I get on, if I cant manage it i will then leave it to the pro's!
Just checked gsf and its £92 with the VAT!
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There....that's at least £30 saved.
Kepe us posted, cheers for the pics, very useful. When the pulley goes bad metal shards will appear where the rusty marks are - as has happened in the pics in the gallery, see below.
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Hi Dave, had a bash at it on Sunday (after a heavy night on the beers!), even though I took it for a 15 minute run to get it warm I still couldnt get the Pulley bolt to budge. Solid as a rock to quote an 80's pop song (Tina Turner?). I was doing it manually as I dont have an air gun! So now Im gonna take it to my local mechanic and get him to do it. I dont think it would take long at all to do 5 mins to get the belt off then 20 to take off the old pulley and refit the new one then another 5 to refit the belt. So thats 30 mins, do you think these time estimates are correct? How much do you think is a fair price?
Cheers
Paul
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Well my Citroen dealer advertises £242 for a C5 HDI 2.0 110 cambelt.
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Is the same kind of 'split' pulley used on the 405 DT?
Thanks.
Steve.
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hi, where can i get one of thes gsf pulleys, my local dealer wants 160 for a crankshaft pulley
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GSF is on www.gsfcarparts.com
They also have 40-50 shops around the country - click "Contact Us" / "GSF Branches".
However, I couldn't find the 406 crankshaft pulley on the online shop, so I suggest you ring your local branch for a quote.
Ian
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Hi all - 1st time posting so please be gentle...
DL - in your original posting 3 yrs ago you mentioned a noise on starting which may indicate potential pulley problems. Do you know if the noise would be apparent when switching of the engine too?
Basically, my 406 LX HDi (04/99 T-reg 93k miles) makes a noise when starting up and switching off. When starting, the noise seems to come at the end of the initial ignition sequence and sounds like something continuing to rotate / spin accompanied by a noticable, although not very loud, 'clunk'. When switching off, the noise is the same and can be heard when the engine stops.
Are these noises indications of a worn pulley?
All suggestions welcomed.
CarManiac
17 in as many years...
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Sorry, forgot to mention that the noise is apparent whether the engine is cold or hot... no problems whilst driving, just on starting / switching off.
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Nothing to do with the air con compressor clutch is it? If the AC is on or off does it make a difference?
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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Dual mass flywheel?????
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pmh (was peter)
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Glowplug - A/C makes no difference...
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That does sound horribly like a DMF giving problems - is it a 110 BHP model? I'm not sure which Pugs were fitted with DMFs - Xantia 110 HDis of that age were not AFAIK. The crankshaft pulley normally rattles at start up / idle. I suggest you get it into a garage ASAP and get them to have a look at it - failure of the pulley can pull the cambelt off, whilst failure of the DMF will ruin the gearbox and half of the front of the car..... Replacement of the clutch and DMF is not cheap, but better than having to buy a new car! I believe Valeo now offer a 4 part clutch kit that includes a solid flywheel, and which is cheaper than a new DMF and clutch.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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RichardW
Can the DMF be replaced without a new clutch assembly or is it better / safer to have both replaced.
GSF quoting £136 for clutch and £186 for DMF - OUCH!!
Bought car 5 weeks ago - have booked it in with dealer for next Tuesday to see what they can do. Will let you know how I get on. Repairs should be covered by 6 month warranty supplied with the car.
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"Repairs should be covered by 6 month warranty supplied with the car"
**Should** - I love that word. I hope it is covered but I suspect they will try and wriggle out of it, on the pretext of 'fair wear and tear'.
I am rapidly coming around to the conclusion that modern diesels with their highly complex injection systems and Dual Mass Flywheels are bad news for motorists on a tight budget.
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"Repairs should be covered by 6 month warranty supplied with the car" **Should** - I love that word. I hope it is covered but I suspect they will try and wriggle out of it, on the pretext of 'fair wear and tear'. I am rapidly coming around to the conclusion that modern diesels with their highly complex injection systems and Dual Mass Flywheels are bad news for motorists on a tight budget.
Xileno... you old pessimist.
The garages words, not mine...
Considering it's age and mileage, if it needs a new DMF / Clutch then so be it - if the warranty covers some of the cost, I'll be happy.
Check out my profile and you'll see why I'm so realistic about it (Jensen - 6MPG!!!!!!!!!!!!)
CarManiac
(17 in as many years...)
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I hope I'm wrong. Good luck with it.
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Most of the expense in replacing the clutch and / or flywheel is the labour to remove / replace the gearbox - I wouldn't dream of not fitting the whole works whilst the box was out!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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My Xantia had a new clutch fitted a couple of months before I bought it. Cost £548 and it judders. I fitted one to my wifes 405 TD, genuine Citroen costing just £85. However it did take many hours..... I'm hopefully doing the Xantia in the spring along with cambelt, blanking EGR valve, cleaning out intercooler, inlet manifold, etc, etc.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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The Xantia is a bit more involved than the 405, since you've got to take the LHM tank out, and unbolt the pressure reg from the front of the box. On the upside there appears to be more room around the box (compared to the 306 HDi and ZX TD I have done this year). Note that if yours is a 110 it will have the ML5T box fitted and you need to make a tool to re-engage the release bearing with the clutch springs once the box is back on (Haynes covers this).
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Oh dear.... Yep it's an Exclusive so 110. Does the remove sub frame still apply? Been under the Xantia quite a bit but can't remember if it has one.
Thanks.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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We're miles off either the original topics, but yes it has a front subframe, but no it doesn't need to come out to get the box out. I suspect the ML5 box will be a bit easier than the BE3 as it doesn't have the gear selectors sticking out the back which get in the way as you try and drop the box out. On the BE3 you can remove the speedo drive housing, which makes a lot more room, but I haven't looked in detail at the ML5 box, so don't know if this applies or not. Take heed of the Haynes advice about clamping the slave cylinder piston, and put a block of wood under the clutch pedal to make sure - if you have to change that, the clutch job will cost the earth!!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Hi all -
406 pulley noise-
back on the topic of the crankshaft pulley - I have a 406 1.9 Turbo diesel , not HDI (P reg) with about 100k on the clock. 6 months back it started to get a noise on tick over - not realy a vibration more of a "awamba wamba" this comes from the pulley area - I had the local garage look at it- at first they thought it was a timing cover vibrating but it wasn't. then the noise stopped with the aux drive belt off so they reconned it wasn't the cam belt or cam pulleys iether. But they couldn't see anything wrong and had " spun up" the other items to check - I guess they meant the generator etc. This noise then went away for a a week or so then came back. It hasn't - really got any worse in 6 months / 6000 miles - but recently there is sometimes a clicking noise as well. It all settles down above 1200rpm or is not noticeable above other engine noise at that speed. before I delve further or take it to a main dealer , could this be the HDI pulley problem or something else? I am not even sure if this engine has a two part pulley or a solid one. Any ideas
regards Mike
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Im 99.9% certain you WILL have the 2 part pulley ( harmonic balancer is the carrect Peugeot name for it ) fitted to your 406.
Try timing the engine up as for a cambelt change, if the timing hole in the crank pulley doesnt line up with the rest of the timing marks then you know 100% the pulley is on the way out.
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The pulley, 2 part, went on my 98 2.1 td. Fortunately going very slowly when it went but it still cracked the pulley on the automatic tensioner which had only recently been replaced.
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thanks to Leepower for that advice about my 1.9 TD
I will take off the covers this weekend and check the alignment and look for the other tell tale signs . As for GSB did you have any prior warning to the failure of your pulley , like funny noises, or vibration ?
regards - Mike
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I had one on my old 405 with the XU10J2 2 litre petrol engine.
Only noticed it was on the way out when the timing hole in the bottom pulley didnt match up when I went to change the cambelt, Outer ring of pulley had moved on the inner.
You could see the timing was lined up correctly by the keyway on the end of crankshaft but the timing hole on the pulley was miles out.
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DL,
a mate of mine came into our workshop and said he had a loud knocking coming from his engine. sure enough it was the drive belt pulley (lower) totally split in 2 right around the pulley, knackered the belt too. he went to get the new 1 from the dealer and they said they would of charged him £326 for the job complete! the new pulley you get now is supposed to be a modified variant. it took me 40 mins and cost him a crate of the finest belgium. French!
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Mick. The only warning was two or three times on the day it went, the power steering went heavy just for a couple of seconds a time. Presumably due to the belt slipping or pulley beginning to break up. I was on my way to my local workshop. I was about 100 yards away from it turning into their road when it went bang. I'm just glad I wasn't at full tilt on the Mway.
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You have made me very nervous, having just read this old thread, as a new member. My 405 1.9td with 220kkm goes rock hard on the P/S sometimes when parking, and at full lock, when pump works hardest. No probs at speed. I thought I might be up for a P/S pump or steering valve replacement, but your observation makes sense, ie slipping pulley equals not enough pump pressure. I have been driving for about 12 mths with this symptom. Perhaps I'd better check out the pulley pronto. Anyone experienced the symptom I've described and found it to be other than pulley?
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Mine went today. I had noticed some noises before my holiday tour of the Scottish Highlands but put it down to general wear and tear. However it suddenly got worse while I was driving in Northern Ireland today. It sounded like a scraping noise and was accompanied by a loss of steering assistance. Then I noticed a warning on my Radio Screen that there was a serious fault in the charging system accompanied with the 'ignition' light on the dash being illuminated.
I switched off the Air Con and this reduced the noise by half. It also restored the charging and the steering assistance. I successfully drove the 20 miles home where I found this thread. I checked the pulley and - Yes, it is falling apart.
Thanks to you guys who posted your experiences - You were invaluable..........
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I had exactly this happen on a Ford Scorpio TD fitted with a VM engine - same layout of pulley as the Pug. First sign was a screech and some very entertaining sparks as the inner and outer pulleys span against each other - exciting!
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