Xenon headlights..what is the point?
Answers:
A. To allow you to be a poser by thinking you have 'improved visibility' and 'safety' when in fact you are just dazzling oncoming drivers (even with dynamic range adjustment thingy) with a very slight chance they will actually crash into you.
B. To allow you to drive extra close to the car in front so that the stray light from your lights dazzles them, which gives your ego a boost and the feeling of extra street kudos.
C. To allow you to see further ahead when driving along a dark road with no street lights, unseen 'dangers', and other obstacles at 150+MPH.
Surely Xenon headlights are a prime example of marketing over common sense?
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Understand where you're coming from, but the argument falls down on the technical side. They are better than simple filament bulbs: brighter, better spread of light etc.
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I disagree. I have just bought a 2004 Saab 9-5 with bi-xenons. The lighting is no better than my older 9-5 with Philips Vision plus bulbs, possibly inferior.
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daryld,
can\'t help but think what you wrote is pink fluffy dice but I understand where you are coming from as you obviously find them annoying when you have to share the road with them.
I considered upgrading my headlights as I found the current set up did not offer good illumination. However I was put off by the cost. nothing to do with posing though
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I have driven cars with Xenons, and they do seem to provide a much better light to drive by. However on the other side I do seem to get dazzled by Xenon equiped cars more than others. They always seem to "flash" to me as if someone is flicking main beam on and off. I assume this is due to the self leveling mechanism.
Sometimes when they appear to flash I also see the blue halo, which causes me to take a double look in case its an emergency vehicle. Some cars seem better than others.
I wonder how these cars will pass the MOT when its due?
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Halogens? Whats the point? Far brighter than tungsten filaments and only encourage people to drive faster. They should be banned.
They should also ban alloy wheels, ABS, airbags, seatbelts, child seats, traction control, bumpers, crush zones, disc brakes & radial tyres as these are just bought by poseurs and make people drive faster.
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Come on pd, that's just a bit too sarky. The fact is (as has been said in previous threads) that big bright lights are fine when you are behind them, more of a bl**dy nuisance if you are in front. Just another of those small I'm-all-right-Jack factors that cumulatively get up drivers' noses and tend to cause more road rage. Or doesn't that happen either?
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Alright, it was a bit sarcy, but I don't have any problems with oncoming / behind etc. Xenon equipped cars.
The only ones I find slightly annoying are the eliptical type which have a very blue haze around them (FIAT Group cars seem to use these a lot) which can be Halogen or Xenon and badly adjusted lights which, again, can be Halogen or Xenon.
(BTW, it's a common misconception that Xenon lights can't be misaligned. Although they do adjust up & down automatically the base height is still set manually so can still be too high or too low).
I think Xenon lights are progress and within 10 years most cars will have them.
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My new Merc has Bi-Xenons fitted as standard and I think they are brilliant. They light the road superbly and the full beam is just fierce.
No one has flashed me and when I have followed my freinds they haven't complained about bieng blinded by my lights. I agree that some manufacturers lights do seem to blind you but I think xenons are a great invention.
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Pulled up beside a Lexus RX300 which has Xenons. Was amazed at how white the road infront of him was.
Amazing, was like having your own All-weather football pitch lighting. Still, wouldn't have liked to have been the car infront of the Lexus...
Kev
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here's my contribution to the silly thread:
technology - who needs it, who needs cars? let us go back to the horse & cart days. better still, make walking compulsory, introduce a night-time curfew.
or ban all lights above 5watts everywhere (in the home/street/cars). Instead make people eat carrots for better night time vision.
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Xenon foglights anyone?
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I love the way Xenons, when you switch them on, flash blue for a moment, then turn white and rise as the beam self-levels. Very Star Trek.
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M-Ox : self-levelling, now that is good point. I may be wrong, but do all xenons require this feature as standard? If true, then it is a definite plus point for xenons. Unless someone no doubt wants to argue that that is a dangerous advance.
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I wrote this in a previous thread on the subject: (oh, BTW the relevant regulation is ECE Reg 48)
The legislation regarding headlight leveling started off in Germany, but I believe it is now pan-European. Unfortunately I am off work at the moment so do not have access to the legislation library nor my Bosch Automotive Handbook, but as I understand it ALL dipped beam headlamps fitted to new cars MUST HAVE a leveling mechanism to compensate for varying load conditions. This can be achieved by the manufacturer in one of three ways:
1. The lamps may be manually adjustable from the cockpit. This usually takes the form of a motor unit in each lamp controlled by a thumbwheel on the dash.
2. The lamps may automatically adjust. This usually takes the form of a motor unit in each lamp controlled by a level-sensing device somewhere in the car - no intervention from the driver is required.
3. The car can be fitted with self leveling rear suspension. The headlamps may be adjust-and-forget types.
So, if you find your new car has no thumbwheel on the dash, it most likely has self leveling headlamps, but may alternately have self leveling suspension. If the spec sheet says it has either self leveling lamps or self leveling suspension then don't expect to find a thumbwheel as well.
The regulation applies to ALL dipped beam lamps whether you're burning candles or arc lamps.
I would imagine all lamps to have a level adjuster within the lamp to adjust the base setting (may need special tool).
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No one's mentioned the damage to one's wallet when the inevitable stone goes through one - hundreds of quid I believe, that's the main thing that puts me off them.
Baz
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You could always have them attached to a car that self-levels.....
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Like yours and mine C5's?
I don't have Xenons, but the self levelling suspension (front and rear) is good.
I noticed today, the car lowers itself when you approcach slowly or stop at traffic lights on smooth road immediately after driving on rougher terrain (asphalt).
I like the way the C5 moves itself when it feels like it, you see the rear horizon moving in the mirror.
Ben
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Mine has the Xenons, Ben. The light is very good, but it does cast odd shadows in surrounding foliage! The lights self level and so does the car! Just adds to the considerable personality of the car, I reckon.
Graeme
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Slightly off the main thread, but still in keeping with the other posts here;
I had the pleasure (and I mean pleasure) of a ride in the back of a C5 taxi the other day after getting dropped into town in the ubiqitous Skoda Octaxia.
What an eye opener! Fantastic ride and not a rattle from the C5. Now those that know me and my posts will be familiar with my views on Citroens.
Mea Culpa. Hair shirts and self flagellation are called for. Citroen have built an absolute cracker. Now if they can just apply that build to a C3, we may be getting somewhere!
Ok, C5 worship over. I'm off to clean the Alfa with my tongue.
....here, lovely lovely Alfa. Daddy's home.....
ND.
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Sssh!
Any more loose talk like that and they'll all want one and then where will we be?
There's loads of Citroen / French bashing on the forum on a regular basis, but when you look on the technical pages, what do you hear moans about? Passats, Mondeos, Vectras......
How many postings can you find in the technical section, concerning problems with C5s?
I know they had a few early teething troubles. These attracted a disproportionate share of attention. They have now been fixed -
full stop. The 2003 C5 is a serious motor, but keep it under your hat.......
Graeme
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This is like an alien invasion!
What is it about the Back Room? Start a thread about anything from headlamps to jubilee clips, and sooner or later a vague relationship with the Citroen C5 is established ;)
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We are trying to help the residual values by making eveybody want to buy a C5 used, preferably the one I might sell in 5 years when the C6 is launched and the launch niggles sorted out.
I don't remember the jubilee clip C5 connection, but most good things have a chevron somewhere, like funny emails forwarded to everybody.
As somebody else has mentioned, Citroen is one of the most discussed posts around here.
Ben (Gee, the C5 needs a clean again, must have to find fewer reasons to go for a drive!)
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No one's mentioned the damage to one's wallet when the inevitable stone goes through one - hundreds of quid I believe, that's the main thing that puts me off them.
The outer covers are clear plastic, and I've never seen a plastic headlight smashed by a stone yet.
I saw an R-reg Omega a few weeks ago that had a fault with one of its xenon headlamps where the arc was burning at the wrong temperature - which made it light up a very clear and piercing RED colour! Not what you want to see coming towards you on a dark road.
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"I saw an R-reg Omega a few weeks ago that had a fault with one of its xenon headlamps where the arc was burning at the wrong temperature - which made it light up a very clear and piercing RED colour! Not what you want to see coming towards you on a dark road"
aaaarggghhhh! don't tell the bikers they'll all want them !!
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here's my contribution to the silly thread: technology - who needs it, who needs cars? let us go back to the horse & cart days. better still, make walking compulsory, introduce a night-time curfew. or ban all lights above 5watts everywhere (in the home/street/cars). Instead make people eat carrots for better night time vision.
Still missing the point: I do not care if they are Xenon, quartz iodine or Kryptonite. What I do care about is why does legislation allow vehicles to have such an option fitted that is in practice dangerous to other drivers? If they did not dazzle other users then that's OK-let all cars have them. But on a dark winding country lane in the rain they are positively dangerous to other motorists.
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I don't personally have any problems with dazzle from Xenon lights. Yes they do flash now and then as you go in and out of the beam, but I don't find them any worse than ordinary filament bulbs. Because most Xenon-equipped cars have the auto-levelling system, I think there's a lot more filament-light cars around with badly adjusted lights that cause more dazzle.
Most of the time I find them less dazzling as the beam patterm is more defined, and once out of the beam, there's very little stray light at all.
My new Ibiza (a dutch import) has Xenon lights, and they are far better than any other filament lights I've used. The colour of the light is much more like natural light, and the beam pattern is incredibly well defined. I've never been flashed by anyone at all.
Just my opinions....
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Muddyboots I have to agree with you, I've had more problems with badly aligned headlights and (dare I say it) front fogs than HID lights.
When there has been a problem then I have to say there has been a factor which would have caused a problem with any light source, eg approaching over a brow.
As a side question does anyone else notice occasionally a flicker from HID lamps when hitting say a bump/pothole. Just as if the arc is disturbed?
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As a side question does anyone else notice occasionally a flicker from HID lamps when hitting say a bump/pothole. Just as if the arc is disturbed?
Yes - the Xenons in my Vectra do flicker slightly when hitting hard bumps such as manhole covers.
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Can't see (excuse the pun!) the point of them.
You need your foglights on during daytime, except when it's foggy and no lights on at all when it is foggy.
The power you save by not using lights gives you an extra 27dB on the stereo.
Taken from Maxpower Driver guide (pre-teen issue)
The post - teen issue has no words, just pictures
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Over the last few years i have owned cars with Xenon lights and cars without. Xenon kights are unquestionably better for visibilty. Not once has anyone complained about dazzle. Knowing our motoring brethren i think i would have been alerted by now if i had been causing them a problem. I agree the bulbs are expensive, but are supposed to be long life. Misaligned headlights are much more of a perrenial problem when the 'dark nights' creep back in. Is headlight alignment difficult to check? Is it still part of the MOT? You could be forgiven for not believing so. Concrete.
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Xenons are brighter and often do dazzle. Some of the dynamic leveling systems are dreadful and the beam bobs up and down on a bumpy road. Dipped beam pattern is checked at MoT, but main beam is not part of the test (too diffuse to focus in the beam setter). Personally I'm not keen on £100+ bulbs and £1k headlamps. I know they are supposed to last longer, but its another thing that'll scrap a five year old car.
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I have Xenons on my 5 Series simply becuase they look cool and tell other road users that my car is better than theirs.
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>>I have Xenons on my 5 Series simply becuase they look cool and tell other road users that my car is better than theirs.
Nice one MichaelR. What I loved about a motor I had with these, was the little whirring sound they made when they
adjusted at ignition-on as they adjusted up-down-up. I agree with the previous poster about maladjusted 'vanilla'
headlights being the worst offenders , dazzle-wise. Personally , I feel safer when an oncoming car has xenons - at least
I know they can see me well.
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I have Xenons on my 5 Series simply becuase they look cool and tell other road users that my car is better than theirs.
That's why I specified them on my 3!
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I've had Xenons on my last 2 cars. With both cars I have been frequently flashed by oncoming drivers presumably thinking I had the main beam switched on (I didn't). This would seem to indicate that some people feel dazzled by them. If you want to experience badly adjusted headlamps, though, you have to come to the US where it would appear headlights on cars are never actually checked once they leave the factory.
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I'm afraid I fall into the category of hating driving in front of someone with these lights because they do blind me.
Several posters have said "no one has ever complained", well I can't think of many occassions where this would be possible. What should I do drive god knows how many miles out of my way following the 'offending' driver to his/her point of final destination and then remonstrate with them? Like they are going to give a damn anyway.
I think the fact that a few people on here have said that they find them annoying speaks volumes and provides all the evidence needed. No smoke without fire etc....
With regards to people using fog lights when they shouldn't I personally think part of the problem is that the symbol on the fog light switch isn't clear what it is that you are switching on. May be if a light on the dash saying "FOG" came on more people would have a clue. I often see fog lights on when the driver's car has frost on the rear windscreen and I suspect the driver thinks they have put the rear deicer on. My mum has made this mistake several times until I pointed out that she was putting on the fog light!
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My car came with Xenons as standard and very efficient at lighting up the road they are as well. Didn't cost me a penny extra. Truly excellent value.
But here's a funny thing, I've never suffered any displeasure from someone driving towards me with Xenon headlights on, & I've never suffered any displeasure from a vehicle driving behind me with Xenon headlights on.
But then again, I don't go out of my way to be offended by things.
MTC
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Don't know if anyone else can relate to this: the only time I really notice xenon lights is on motorways. The light has a bluish hue, especially when seen from slightly side-on (or maybe it just seems blue in contrast to yellowish normal lights.) Anyway, when I see this through the posts of a central crash barrier, my mind does a momentary double-take that I'm seeing flashing blue lights on the opposite carriageway, and my driver's instinct makes me look that way. Not a major distraction, just an odd feeling.
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I'd never go back to halogen lights again. As others have said gas discharge lamps provide far better definition, particularly round the margins of the beam. They highlight the side of the road and pavements far better than the older technology and make night driving safer.
The downside is that poor/poorly adjusted systems can dazzle other road users. I've never had anyone flash me in the RS4 or the Golf GTi and both these cars feature an excellent bi-xenon system.
They are one extra that I would specify without hesitation- in fact they should be standard.
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Over the last few years i have owned cars with Xenon lights(...) Not once has anyone complained about dazzle.
That's 'cause they can't complain while they're taking action to avoid a crash?
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I've driven cars with Xenons are they are far superior to halogens BUT my current car has halogans andI prefer it to Xenon's. That because my car has AFS headlights, the type that bend around the corner as you drive along and have an additional light to light up very tight corners. They are absolutely fantastic and I see this as the future before Xenons. Ultimately, we will all have AFS Xenons but due to costs we will all have AFS halogens first.
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Aftermarket HIDs seem to be popular with XM owners due to their cars notoriously bad dipped beam. If I'm being dazzled from behind I just dip the mirror.
Steve.
---
Xantia HDi Exclusive.
XM 2.1 VSX.
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On a point of safety, can a driver replace his / her own Xenon light bulbs, or does he/ she need to go to a garage?
If it is the latter, then this is in no way an improving safety feature - and also flies in the face of many countries' legislation which requires one to carry spare bulbs.
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I can't see many people carrying spare Xenon bulbs. A Nissan one cost me £95 and a BMW cost £120. Moreover they are not the kind of thing you can change at the side of the road. What worries me more is that some of the HV ballast units are failing on 5-6-year-old cars. These are often integrated into the light unit (e.g. Audi) and the cost is anything from £700-1000+. Obviously if one side goes you may expect the other side to fail not long after. This could be a nasty surprise for owners.
It is possible to buy HID kits to adapt conventional headlights. These cost around £150 and mostly seem to come from the China.
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As far as I'm aware the spare bulb regulation doesn't apply to gas discharge lamps in the Netherlands and Germany at least. I'd imagine that in France and Spain merely carrying a spare bulb set would suffice even if they didnt work
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Personally, having driven lots of cars and all sorts of lamps.
Dirty HID's are no better than clean halogens etc.
Way too easy a way to write a car off in my book for the possible extra light claimed.
Well adjusted lights, and regularly checked eyesight are way more important imo.
Before you all rant and tell me how wrong I am! When did you last have your eyes checked?
£1000 for headlamp problems? er no thank you!
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i.m.o. - seems like a trend recently emerging to trawl through very old threads to see which one to revive.
this one four years old from 2003 !
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I broke the forward progress of an Audi on the back of a lorryback in 2002, and when I got the repair estimate back off my local dealer, it said "2 Xenon headlamps £1400".
Ouch.
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>>Dirty HID's are no better than clean halogens etc.
That'll be why all OEM fit Xenon's have headlamp washers then.
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I did an after market upgrade DIY job about 3 years ago. Passed MOT no problems but then I do have them set relatively low. Cost abut £215 if I recall. Fortunately the car comes with headlight washers (which unless you actually have wipers seem ineffective) and as the car had self levelling suspension, already had balasts in place.
Makes the car much much better to drive at night. The point about eye sight is a valid one but even without them my car has a reputation for weak headlights and changing to the 50% Plus bulbs made not much difference. When the weather was very inclement I did on the very rare occasion use my front fogs so that I could see the edge of the road and not drive off it. since the Xenons I have never used them, or rather I might have used once in v thick fog.
Still think that Xenons attract the eye rather than dazzle.
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PS - how many people actually bother to clean their headlights. Even when they look clean they can have a thick layer of gunck on them.
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