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I would only ever EVER buy privately if I ...
1) Knew the owner well, he/she was local/friend/family.
2) Knew the car well too. Seen it around, susssed how well it had been cared for, was able to examine all -repeat all-maintenance documentation and the actual invoices of each service ( as well as the dated stamp in the service book).
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The real question is : can you afford to run and service one of those PROPERLY, and has the last owner been able to afford to maintain it properly.
Car tax is £515 pa, to start with.
Assume 18-20 mpg.
Insurance : Who knows. Limited mileage policy living in the middle of nowhere probably £500pa. Essex and doing 15k a year, probably £2k
You're going to want servicing carried out by BMW or a specialist, here are some servicing costs from BMW's website :
Oil and oil filter : £193
Oil, oilfilter and microfilter : £461
Oil, oilfilter, microfilter, engine air filter and spark plugs : £665
Front brake pads : £241
Front pads and discs : £887
Rear brake pads : £221
Rear pads and discs : £719
A specialist independent will probably be 10-20% cheaper.
You'd need to budget (because parts will be wearing out and need replacing, the car you're talking about is 8 years old) probably £4-5000 a year for servicing, insurance, tax and repairs, and that's before you drive it at all.
If it needs tyres, then those will be £200 minimum a corner, unless you want to buy 'ditchfinders' and kill yourself. 420bhp will put you sideways into a tree very rapidly.
So : forget about the cost of buying one : can you afford to run and maintain one ?
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A bit patronising to assume he hasn't already considered this. Also a mild exaggeration at 4-5k a year! At this rate we'd all be driving 10 year old Toyota Yaris's...
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You'd be amazed at the number of people who've asked me about cars like this who genuinely cannot afford one. The friend mentioned above was just one.
It's worth reminding anyone looking at a complex car that was hugely expensive new will be massively costly to run as it ages. It might look a bit like a 325 Coupe but it's far from it. Parts and servicing is hugely expensive and Joe Blogs back street workshop cannot do it on the cheap without ruining it.
No doubt the original poster will have thought about this but the suggestion of buying one privately to save money reveals a inkling that money is a factor. Never buy something like this thinking that you're going to get a bargain. The cheap cars are cheap for a reason.
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A bit patronising to assume he hasn't already considered this. Also a mild exaggeration at 4-5k a year! At this rate we'd all be driving 10 year old Toyota Yaris's...
'considering it' and 'actually doing a few sums to REALLY work out how much it'll cost to run per annum' are two very different things.
Servicing : £500 per annum. (Service it yourself, and watch it become unsellable. Any future buyer will insist on stams and receipts from main agent or specialist). Car tax, £515. Insurance, anything from £500 up, depending on location, age and mileage. A pair of tyres, £400.
Add in the cost of the MOT, that's £2k. Absolute bare minimum.
They're well-known for going through knock sensors regularly, at £2k to replace (£1k per side). Rear tyres last 6-8k miles. Fronts should do at least 20k miles. Even if you only do minimal mileage, 5k miles a year will, at current prices, cost £1200 or so in fuel.
Yes, maybe saying £4-5k a year is a bit scaremongering. But not by much. You only buy one of those if you've got very deep pockets.
Looking to buy a cheap one = looking to buy trouble. Something with 'issues'.
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£20K to buy a £60K car when new
Still has £60K running costs -
Car prices depreciate with age
Parts & Labour escalate with age.
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My own take on cars like this is that if you want to buy one, then unless you have a politicians elastic expense account it should ideally be when the market is down, such as at the time when that M5 i referred to above was for sale circa 2008/9, probably about the same cost then as it would now fetch.
The better alternative IMHO is to go for the highest spec largest engine version but without the magic £etters, so maybe a 330/335 instead, its not as if you can use anything like the performance of those on our roads let alone the M3, plus its likely to have more reasonably priced parts many of which will be common with the more humble models, and a decent make specialist indy can maintain them surprisingly cheaply.
Whilst never in a million years could it be compared with a M3, my Merc coupe of some 20 year vintage was an expensive and fast car in its day, but by not having the magical AMG notation with the specialist engines, its been a very reasonably priced car to maintain over the years via a very good MB indy, annual servicing @ less than £200 with periodic more intense work like gearbox oil changes...arguably the indy in question could have kept a 500E AMG going quite reasonably too, but had for example the engine or gearbox totally failed then i would have been looking at serious serious money instead of propably a grand or so via one of my indy's many sources for a good used engine/box.
When you work it out apart from the luscious V8 throb of the AMG, there's no way i could have driven it any faster than my still rapid 320 can hurl itself along.
Even my humble model has some quirks, these quirks get more expensive as you go up the engine range, 320 (3.2 24v) was the higest spec before you got into AMG range, for example for non 320's the front bottom ball joints are about £15 a side from MB, on 320's the joint is part of the wishbone circa some £400 or more now a side, i've had several, goodness knows what a (Porsche built for MB) 500E wishbone would cost.
Thats only one example, translate those differences to ultra specialist stuff like an M3 and one can only imagine how many zeros might be tacked on to the difference in parts prices.
Edited by gordonbennet on 10/10/2016 at 16:53
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If I were buying a 8 year old M3, I would have a reserve of £4k for bills to fix problems.
(Oldest son bought a cooking one owner immaculate 8 year old 316i. And within one year, one coil pack failed and the rear brakes needed to be replaced £1k plus.. And that was on a £18k new car.. So multiply by 3 and a bit =£4k).
And buy a proper warranty..
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I expect there would be no change from £10k for an M3 engine and at least £5k for a gearbox, ISTR that £20k was the typical cost of a new M5 engine.
Thats sounds more likes a bargain in Rob's post below.
Edited by gordonbennet on 10/10/2016 at 17:29
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There's a lot of interesting suggestions, but FWIW, I'd never consider buying a performance car of this type privately - unless the person was known personally and could be trusted.
Outside the franchised network you'll get at best a mediocre warranty that might only cover a proportion of a major failure and may not be worth the papert its printed on. A BMW approved warranty, from my own experience, is far more cast iron and would cover bills to the retail price of the car. That said, you will pay more at a franchise for the car in the first place, but their history is known.
With any used purchase, you dont know what you are getting, and as we all know, some dealers are more receptive to others when it comes to fault fixing and customer service.
I'll be in the market for 12-15month old F30 330D soon, and would rather pay a bit more for an Approved car where providence can be traced than save £2k at a car supermarket and end up banging my head on a wall afterwards to get faults fixed.
Also baffles me why people will buy a car when the salesman says 'we'll post the service history on' knowing well it doesnt exist. No service history and previous bills, no sale is my motto. No exceptions.
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I agree entirely Gordon. The only reason to go for the M3 over the 335i of that era is for the V8 engine's torque delivery, over the 335i's turbo 6-pot.
Makes even less sense with the current 'F' series cars, as the 335i / 340i are the same basic 3.0 straight-6 as the M3, but the M-car has bigger twin turbocharging.
In fact, there'd be a major argument (for me at least) of buying a 2012/2013 335i. 0.5 seconds slower to 60, 30mpg as opposed to 20mpg, 4 or 5 years newer ...in fact, here's one, and at the sort of price the OP is looking for !
usedcars.bmw.co.uk/3-Series/3.0-306bhp-335i-M-Spor..._
If they were willing to up the price, they could get into a 1-year old 340i, with a 0-60 fractionally slower than the M3 they were considering, and 2 years BMW warranty remaining.
usedcars.bmw.co.uk/3-Series/3.0-340i-M-Sport/Eastl..._
That looks like an absolute bargain when compared to a 2008 M3
The F30-series is also one hell of a lot nicer than the older E90-series too.
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Thanks fellas i know the 335i is the more logical choice.
I'm even tempted by the 335d xdrive still 0-60 in under 5 secs, 50 mpg and not much more than the M3 with a decent warranry. But 335d is still so new I'll lose more on depreciation, if i buy it now, than I'll save on fuel, great car though.
But eveyone says the figures dont do the m3 justice its just so much better to drive. I'm not planning on keeping it long no more than a year max. This is my midlife crises ??
I'm a bit shocked by the repair bills you cite usually I buy 5y old cars golf volvo and the like and apart from timing belts I've had no major outlays (touch wood). I do however look after and regularly service my car.
www.sjspecialistcars.co.uk/stock/Oct16/2008-BMW-M3...l
Anyway back to the original topic in the link above it mentions a bmw warranty does anyone know if these are worthwhile? If not where can I get a good warranty for a bmw?
Edited by Bazman76 on 14/10/2016 at 20:56
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Special thanks to RobJP great choices!!!
However I think those cars are likely to depreciate, more over the next 12 months than the M3 will. As the M3 is older and rarer.
The point on the servicing costs is valid but would the 335i costs be that much less? Insurance is "only" 550.
Not sure if I'd go to dealer for servicing unless it was going to invalidate the warranty. I have a local garage I've used for years that cost a fraction of what the s******s do. In all honesty I'd likely save more in servicing than I'd lose on depreciation! I mean I can afford the dealers prices but dont feel they offer anything like good value!!!
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I'd strongly advise that you don't buy one of these. You can't expect Joe Blogs back street garage to be able to service what is essentially a very complex £60,000 car that is one step down from a super car. No matter what they tell you they don't have the specialist tools or access to manufacturer technical updates or training. You'll lose far more than you'll save without a dealer or genuine specialist service history and will be almost guaranteed to suffer a hugely expensive failure through using a garage that simply isn't equipped to maintain a highly specialist car like this. Don't buy a complex ultra high performance car like this thinking that you can run it on a budget, you'll come a cropper.
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If you really, absolutely have an 'itch' to scratch by having one of those for 12 months, then go for a M5 from BMW approved. 12 months complete warranty for a £20k-ish supercar.
If adamant you're going to go for something like that, then you might as well go the whole hog on the 5.0 V10 M5.
As 'SLO76' says, however, getting one of these serviced by a normal garage is asking for problems and/or real problems when you come to sell it.
I'll put it this way. Would YOU buy one that had been serviced by a 'normal' garage, or insist on BMW / specialist service history ?
If you would buy one, bet you'd want the car a lot cheaper ...
EDIT : just seen the one you link to that's for sale. Note that it has full BMW main agent history - not some average garage that usually services Astras and the like.
As to the 'BMW warranty' that it comes with, and what it does (and more importantly, does NOT) cover, the only way to find out for certain is by going and looking at it and all the paperwork in some detail.
Edited by RobJP on 15/10/2016 at 00:02
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M5 is a great car no doubt but it would be even more expensive to run than M3?
An M5 of a similar vintage only does 10mpg urban, I know the M3 is not exactly frugal but its more than 50% better than that.
With regards to the servicing of course all things being equal I'd go for the car with the bwm fsh but there has to be a price, and the bmw service costs are so high you really do have to consider whether it's worth it. I mean for me paying £665 for the Oil, oilfilter, microfilter, engine air filter and spark plugs which is a very straighforward job (on any other car that i have owned ) is outragous!. Fact is I can and would it myself.
However for anything like the brakes/engine etc I'd certainly go to bmw no question.
That said in my situation where I only intend to hold the car for a short while it might be worth it to keep the bmw fsh so I may just have to wear it.
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You'll wipe thousands off the value if you don't maintain the correct dealer/specialist history. I've valued cars like this before as part ex and it killed it stone dead if there were any gaps or a missing history book. It's a false economy. Honestly, I'm not just trying to rain on your parade here. If you can't afford to maintain one of these properly don't do it.
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I can afford it, I just don't like having my pants pulled down, the price for the oil/filter change does seem excessive?
I currently pay £150 for an oil service on my Golf, I let the garage do it because it can be a bit of a hasstle to get rid of the old oil, but how can anyone justify charging £665 for the same job on the M3?
Like I sid though given I only intend to hold the car for a short period I may have to grin and bear it!
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That price (£665) is for a LOT more than just oil / oil filter. I suggest you read my post regarding it again.
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Lease something "tasty" for a year or two? Set cost ("depreciation") and covered by warranty, walk away once done with.
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@RobJP Hi Rob, sorry if I was misinformed. Maybe the oil/filter change on the M3 is much more involved. It's just not clear from your original post what those differences might be. Can you elaborate on the key points for the oil/filter change on an M3 and say a regular car like my Golf.
@Brettmick actually I have never looked at leasing a car before but maybe it would be a sinsible option. Like you say i just want somthing tasty for a year or two but with a firm a handle on the costs as possible up front. Would you recommend any particular leasing companies?
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Lings Cars (the site is bonkers, in a good way) came up with an under £200 a month quote for a 290hp Leon CupraR thingy for my son, that was for 2 years 10k annual mileage IIRC, quite a bargain i thought.
Sorry, but i'm with the others here, for two years i'd rather a big engined (for the body) standard model under makers warranty than risk a 5 figure bill heading my way 12 months down the line should the engine or box self destruct on an 8 year old rare and very expensive car...a car that few people would ever buy to drive gently.
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I wouldn't buy a car like an M3 privately either. Buy from a dealer or even better get your friendly dealer to source one for you. You'll pay for the privilege but you have more legal protection and no dealer worth their name is going to be caught selling a car that is legally dodgy.
I would get a BMW specialist to look after it. There are a good dose of them around, they know the cars, often have dealer trained techs and don't rip your eyes out for the labour side of things.
Don't worry about the 335i or 330d, they are girls cars as we well know. Personally if I was in your position I would opt for the M3 Saloon as I think it just has nicer proportions.
You will of course want a car with a proper service history, either from a BMW dealer or a BMW specialist. I think I would pay for a formal inspection as well just to make sure it hasn't been crashed at some point.
I seem to rememebr that BMW do offer a warranty of sorts but it only covers the drivetrain and once you reach a certain mileage I think they stop offering it.
Running costs will be commensurate for the full sticker price when it was new, it's no secret but you can find out the price of various items (discs/pads/belts etc) ahead of time. I would also find out what size boots it takes, which is the best tyre make and model to have (BMW forums be the best place to ask) and then get quotes for those as well.
Also consider Alpina B3....
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