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2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - veedoubleu

I've got an ongoing issue with an engine error code of "knock sensor signal too high". I've had the sensor replaced and all the usual stuff checked. I reset the code and it comes back randomly sometimes after a week, sometimes after 1 day...

s27.postimg.org/ldd8frcwj/Same_error_again.jpg

I've finally had the chance to get it up on a ramp and have a decent look at it for myself.

I now have 2 theories which I'm hoping someone can comment on...

Theory one : there is a good length of cable coming out of the connector which is not wrapped. The cables do not look split or brittle, but are very slightly kinked. I'm thinking, is the main metal of the engine shorting out the cable when going over certain bumps? I'm imagining an arcing effect from the exposed cable to the metal behind it. Therefore could I just get away with wrapping the exposed cable in a thick layer of electrical insulation tape?

Here are 2 photos I've taken today...

s30.postimg.org/943egouo1/knock004.jpg

s11.postimg.org/kfom9x8tf/knock001.jpg

Theory two : in one of the images you can clearly see above where the knock sensor is, is another screw hole that looks like it could be for a knock sensor too! I'm certain this 1.4 engine isn't supposed to have 2 knock sensors, so has somebody at some point screwed the knock sensor into the wrong hole? Even so, why would the engine have 2 holes for it? Does this model car share that same metal part with other bigger engine models? Or is that definitely NOT a knock sensor position hole?

Also, one extra point, shouldn't the wiring be wrapped in cloth tape rather than standard rubber tape. I'm asking this wondering if maybe it's been repaired before, again see same photo, you can see rubber looking tape tightly wrapped around the wiring.

Edited by veedoubleu on 18/03/2015 at 21:21

2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - elekie&a/c doctor

A few ideas here.The knock sensor is basically a microphone that "listens" to any combustion irregularities so that the engine control system can make any adjusments to the fuel/ignition map.On a 4 cylinder engine there is usually one fitted to the centre of the crankcase between cylinders 2 and 3.The scanner has reported an out of tolerance issue,not that the sensor is necessarily at fault.Wiring to it looks very much standard for this model.Lack of engine oil can flag this fault.More info here;wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16712/P0328/0008...8

2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - Railroad.
A knock sensor is piezo quartz which when detects a vibration generates a voltage which is measured by the ECM. Knock sensors very rarely fail, but they must be tightened to the correct torque setting. Over-tightening them can damage them. Your engine may be 'pinking'. There is no ignition timing adjustment you can make as it's controlled by the ECM, but use of low octane fuel could be the cause. Personally if it was my car I'd avoid supermarket fuel.
2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - veedoubleu

Thanks for the replies, already this place is 100x better than the other VW forums I've tried to use and been ignored on!

See now I have it in my head that an error code coming on is caused by a problem communicating with the knock sensor. Not a problem with any knocking itself. This is why I've had the sensor replaced, torqued correctly, and am now looking at the wiring. From reading 100's of forum posts and research I convinced myself it can't be the actual knocking.

But now reading up on this fuel thing you've mentioned I'm definitely up for trying that!

Ever since I bought the car it's sounded very tappy but lots of people say on forums this is normal for these engines and just to ignore it. Some people have thrown loads of money at it replacing tappets etc, but the problem remains. This is why I don't want to spend any more money at garages with this knock sensor when they might never find the cause.

I've just recorded a video of my engine sound and uploaded it here, this is from a cold start, what do you think? To me the tapping sound is a lot louder from the front. I'm determind to sort this now...

tinypic.com/r/2pyup1v/8

Oh and I check my engine oil monthly and top it up (usually only dropped about half way on the dip stick marker).

Edited by veedoubleu on 19/03/2015 at 14:51

2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - Railroad.
Even if the engine was pinking you probably wouldn't hear it. The ECM would retard the ignition timing (even only on one cylinder if necessary) immediately upon detecting a knock. This would happen very quickly and the effect to the driver would be virtually unnoticeable. If a knock sensor or wiring to it was open or short circuit I'd expect a fault code to that effect to be generated. With a scantool connected try disconnecting the knock sensor to create an open circuit, then see what fault code it logs. If it's different from the one you previously experienced then you know the problem isn't an open circuit.
2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - bathtub tom

I think it's most unlikely to be anything to do with your knock sensor. I've never heard an engine 'pink' at tickover.

Your video clip certainly seems to have a knock - I thought it was diesel until I saw the plug leads - but that's not necessarily conclusive.

I wonder if you knock sensor's picking up another knock from somewhere in the engine.

What's your car's mileage, how long have you had it and has it always sounded like that?

2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - Cyd

If it is pinking it could be coked up after many years and miles. it doesn't take much coking up to cause pre-ignition.

Run your car on Shell V Power if you can. Failing that BP ultimate or Jet Super or whatever Super unleaded you can get locally (Tesco Momentum 99 is good and clean too)

Do one tank then on the second tank put in a bottle of Slick 50 engine cleaner. i cannot prove it, but I bought a coked up low mileage car a few years back and this stuff helped clear it up quite quickly.

Continue to run on super unleaded. this should help.

if you can lay your hands on an endoscope have a look down the plug holes to see if its coked up. Many plumbers and electricians have them, as does any garage worth its salt.

2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - edlithgow

When I bought my current car (1986 Daihatsu Skywing, so no knock sensor or EMS) it suffered from occaisional run-on after switching off, and an intermitant sharp tap at idle which I tentatively diagnosed as pre-ignition, though I don't really know what that sounds like.

I rigged up an IV line into one of the many rubber hoses around the carb which was subject to inlet manifold vacuum, and had it sucking distilled water (actually aircon condensate, but hopefully close enough) into the inlet tract.

The line needed to be piched quite tightly to avoid drowning the engine at idle, but could be opened up at higher revs. Over a couple of days operation, with occaisional static sessions at higher revs, the run-on and tapping noise stopped, and havn't recurred.

I understand the water works by combining with the incandescent carbon to form "water gas" H20 + C > H2 + CO, which then burns.

If I had to do it again I'd leave the carb alone and introduce the water via the air cleaner.

If this IS pre-ignition you should deal with it asap, since its potentially more damaging than detonation.

With regard to your two theories, they both seem to be testable. I'd say, however, that the second one (knock sensor in the wrong hole) doesn't sound a very likely explanation, since I believe detonation causes the whole engine block to "ring".

This implies that detection wouldn't be very sensitive to precise sensor positioning, which wouldn't in any case generate a "false positive".

2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - veedoubleu

Hi all sorry for the delay I've been a bit too busy with work and things.

Tests I've managed to do and results...

Test 1. Code cleared. Cold engine start with knock sensor completely unplugged. Left running at idle for 3 minutes and reved high a few times. No error code.

Test 2. No code to clear. Engine slightly warm now. Start engine with knock sensor connected. Leave running for a couple of minutes. Disconnect knock sensor whilst engine running. Rev a bit. No code.

Test 3. No code to clear. Drove 5 minutes up the road and back with knock sensor disconnected. Car doesn't handle any different. Get up to 60mph and back again. NEW error code but no light on?? Error code of SIGNAL TOO LOW this time rather than the usual too high.

s8.postimg.org/56d72s6yt/untitled6.png

Petrol light has come on this morning so I'm gonna fill up with the decent fuel this time on the way home. I've also scanned copies of my owner's manual about the fuel stuff...

postimg.org/image/y959atxdt/

s14.postimg.org/ye5r53x1d/Petrol2.png

Couple of last points -


I noticed a big part of the ticking in my engine bay is coming from a bit with the part number of 1J0 201 801 H, which according to Google is a "Active Charcoal Container". This ticks/clicks loudly at idle but seems to fade in and out with loudness.
vid.me/hf27


And there's this open plastic pipe which feeds to where the air filter is which doesn't seem to be blowing or sucking any air. Is it meant to?
s2.postimg.org/6xtreogeh/pipe.jpg

I'm being overly thorough with photos and videos I know, but I just want to cover every angle possible here.

Edited by veedoubleu on 25/03/2015 at 14:57

2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - veedoubleu

Hi all, been running super unleaded for a couple of weeks now.

I thought this solved the problem at first as it went for 1 week (about 120 miles) without the engine light coming on! And the car performance definitely improved.

Then suddenly the light came back on :-(
No change in performance though, but I then reset the code, then the next 2 times it came on after about 1 day (about 20 miles).

So I think it's safe to say Super Unleaded has not solved the problem.

I'm desperate to fix the problem as I want to sell it and treat myself to a new one. Might have to resort to putting it on eBay explaining the fault and knocking a few hundred off the price I would have listed it for working.

Would still get more than trading it in.

Any more ideas though please?

I'm gonna do an oil change again (last done in May 2014), and I'm gonna add some Ametech engine restore OR Wynn's Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment. Both things I've tried before over the past few years but can't remember the results. Reason I tried them was for the tapping noise.

2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - veedoubleu

I'm now resorting to having another look at the knock sensor wiring.

There are 3 cores in this cable but only 2 of them are connected to the knock sensor connector block.

Would it have been like this out of the factory?

I'm assuming one of them is an un-needed earth.

So what I'm thinking is, do you reckon this wiring has already been replaced at some point and they couldn't find a 2 core cable to use?

2001 VW Golf 1.4 (axp engine model) - MK4 Golf Knock sensor questions. - dieselnut

The knock sensor is piezo, just like a microphone.

Its not powered from the car so the signal is quite low level.

The earth core is almost certainly a screen to stop unwanted electrical radiation affecting the signal from the sensor.

Check that the earth is connected ok at the ECU.

If this cable gets subjected to a lot of movement in its routing, the earth shielding or cores could be getting broken internally giving a distorted signal.