I understand what you are all saying, maybe i mislead you. Mazda & RAC checked the oil levels when the problems happened - i usually check the oil every friday before i travel to work and back. One thing my mum and dad have tought me thats stuck!
We have a van for work use too, and i always check that maybe once every week and half.
I never see anything out of the ordinary with the oil & this is what i cant seem to understand why the oil would rise so dramatically and cause the car to max revs and speed up.
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If neither you nor your father want the car,just give it to me.I'll take it away so it won't be a danger to you any longer.
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If you wish to reject the car then you must do this with the selling dealership. Your sale contract is with him. You cannot do this with any other dealership as its not their responsibility. However, you may find it difficult as the car is 10 months old and done circa 10K. You MUST first contact the seller - contacting Mazda is not for you to do - that's the selling dealers responsibilty. You may also need to use a solicitor.
Good luck!! You'll need it.
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Hey Robin,
Thanks for your reply - I will be doing this, and ill get them left, right & centre.
Even if i lose money, i just cant accept this car. Do you know of any good solicitors? lol
I will be contacting the man that sold me the mazda now, what do you mean its difficult because it's 10 months?
Thanks for the good luck :)
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the oil has been overfilled to past the max (on the dipstick it was near the top of the stick) and that may cause the problem
Was the oil up to the X mark or only just passed the full mark? There are three marks: Empty, Full and X. There is no way the oil level would go straight from Full to X in a week as that is a lot of oil.
So when you say max is it the X mark?
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Hi RTJ70.
When the RAC looked at it yesterday, he had to do it 5 times to actually make sure it was true what he was looking at.
On the dipstick, its gone past the max level by far. He wrote that on his report and was shocked because he has never seen it before.
I really don't know whats happened. Thats one main reason we all dont want to drive it again :S
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So you're saying it went aboce the X mark? If so, if you check the oil weekly it will not have gone from Full to X in 7 days. The problem caused by local driving and DPF regeneration takes a while to go up.
But this is the only way diesel is known to dilute the diesel. I suspect the oil has not been checked for some time.
Best of luck as you will probably need it.
Edited by rtj70 on 03/08/2009 at 13:48
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I last checked my oil about 1 week and a bit ago.
As well as mazda checking it recently. This is going to be such a hard case to win!
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I think I'd give up and not try. You cannot prove the oil suddenly went up in a week.
Did the oil look diluted by diesel? Normally oil in a diesel becomes very black quickly. What colour was the oil?
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I last checked my oil about 1 week and a bit ago. As well as mazda checking it recently.
I hope for your sake you get your story straight with Mazda as this latest statement contradicts what you said earlier.
"I've had the car 10 months now and have done arouns 10,000 miles on the clock"
"The car is only 11 months old and was checked my mazda approx 6 months ago and was ticked as the oil level is ok. "
It was only later you told us "i usually check the oil every friday before i travel to work and back"
Given that you do approx 1000 miles a month on average, I cannot see how the oil level significantly increased in approx 250 miles (average mileage of 1 week based on your monthly average)
There is so much mis-information in this thread. I suggest you give us a proper and accurate summary of how often the oil level is checked, and roughly how many miles have been covered between the last check and the problem occuring.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 03/08/2009 at 14:53
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Hi,
Im sooo sorry for the confusion here. Im juggling between tons of paperwork & on the phone to mazda.
Ok, the car is 11 Months Old. I last checked the oil 1 1/2 Weeks ago.
The first time Mazda checked the oil was when the car was due a courtesy service, the second time was approx 4 months when the car first had the engine warning light, 2nd time was approx 6 months, 3rd time was by RAC & 4th time was RAC last night.
In-between those times i always check the oil every week as i should. All mazda & RAC reports noted the levels were fine, apart from the RAC technician last night.
Since the last check which was monday last week, until last night i covered approximately 500 - 600 miles as i drive to London and back & all around London.
Again accept my apologies for the confusion as i do understand your all trying to help.
Edited by rtj70 on 27/08/2009 at 23:41
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You say you read the handbook and therefore will know the oil level can rise and it needs checking. You'd also know all about the marks on the dipstick and the significance of the X mark.
You now say you also only check the oil for being low. Yet you read the manual and must have seen the sticker on the engine about the oil levels too.
So when speaking to Mazda you may be unlucky either way:
- You have read the manual and know about the X mark on the dipstick but ignored that and only checked for being low.
- You haven't read the manual and therefore should have known about the X mark.
So you can see Mazda probably hold all the cards so to speak. And the oil check by Mazda is irrelevant as it was so long ago.
Also note there are (or have been) at least two Mazda dealership employees who frequent this forum.
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But if the car is still running then you're in a fair position. It is possible for this problem to destroy the engine and turbo and cost over £8000 (not under warranty either).
If you don't want to keep the car then you can always sell it. It is still working isn't it?
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Hi,
The car runs fine, but i dont want to run it because the problem occured again and again. It will just over rev by its self all the time. Thats why i never moved anywhere.
I could sell it, but the contract of HP says i can't sell it.
Arrghhh im so stuck.
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So the problem you now describe doesn't sound like the dilution of oil by diesel due to DPF.
Are you sure it's not something as simple as the mat sliding and getting stuck under the accelerator? The mat is meant to be fixed in place but I know mine wasn't screwed in - I had to do that with the plastic screw provided.
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Im going to see what mazda say about it first. At the moment they have the car.
I knew it wasnt the mat because thats happened to me before, and then when i noticed the acceleration i immediately ripped the matt out and threw it to the back.
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It will just over rev by its self all the time. Im going to see what mazda say about it first. At the moment they have the car.
Yes, we are trying to help, although it *may* seem like we're having a pop at you, which we're not, btw.
To me the first logical step would be for them to drain the oil and refill with fresh oil to the correct level and then check to see if the self revving is still occurring.
Another thought is if the turbo seals are shot, then oil can be sucked up from the sump and in some cases can rev the engine to destruction, or it may be a case that the engine was so full of diesel oil that it was self fueling itself. I'm not fully clued up on diesel engines though, so may have explained that incorrectly.
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If I ever buy a diesel-powered car, I intend to go to immense trouble to avoid getting one that puts diesel in the sump or makes a fuss if it isn't driven at the right speed.
If I didn't know what car users were like I wouldn't be able to understand how car manufacturers can get away (increasingly it seems) with this sort of thing. But to my great sadness I do, so I do.
No offence to any innocent victims here though.
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I wouldn't doubt for one moment that it was a frightning experience. Did it stop when you turned the ign off? a little strange that because when a diesel starts dieseling on in contents in the sump they don't normally stop untill they go bang! which begs the question was it a combination of something gone very wrong with the fuelling which in turn filled the sump!.That what I suspect if indeed the engine shut down as soon as the ignition was turned off
Izuzu troopers used to fill the sump in seconds when an injector seal failed then they used to suck the oil up & go pop
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Lud said:
If I ever buy a diesel-powered car, I intend to go to immense trouble to avoid getting one >> that puts diesel in the sump or makes a fuss if it isn't driven at the right speed.
But unfortunately most with DPFs may do this soon... which means we'll all end up with petrol cars again. But they too will all end up as turbo's soon for similar reasons.
I think injection doc is right when he says if the engine switched off with the ignition then something with fuelling wrong. I know on Mazda6 mark 1's had an injector problem on some and this was checked at first service. Mine was okay.
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When you step back from this and think about it - it is complete lunacy. The technology has clearly been released into the public domain before it is ready. All Mazda can do is recall all the unfit for purpose cars and re-design them so that the excess fluid goes somewhere else other than the engine block - and then there is a warning bulb to say "check the DPF fluid container and DRAIN it" instead of "check the engine oil in case it is too high and about to blow your motor up". I mean .....what complete buffoon would design it the way it is? Well obviously someone did, maybe they would like to step forward and collect an award.
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Hi People - Good Morning.
I have read through all your comments.
Mazda this morning told me that i need an oil change and i might aswell do that with a service that costs £480 + VAT. lol
At the moment, im going to take it out of mazda get it towed back to my house & get an independent report of what's wrong with it & what could have caused it, probably an expensive option but at least i have some fight with mazda.
A few reply's back it was mentioned about checking the oil every week, as an example if i were to travel 200 miles per day 6/7 days a week (being self-employed it's very possible) that equals to 1,400 miles in the week. This is enough for the oil to rise up like it did? So, the handbook doesnt state check it every "x" miles.
There's no point in having a car if i can't drive it a distance and it causing this to happen.
Also, say for example i didn't check the oil for the whole time i've had the car, i've drove it nearly 12,000 miles without checking it once (example) so why hasnt it happened in the first 4,000 or 8,000 miles?
Ok, i started writing this at 10:00am and have been on and off the phone to mazda. Madza dealer just rung me asking what i would like to do, so i said don't repair it and leave the car outside for me... now they are saying i have to pay a £55 charge for them checking the vehicle... one headache after another here. Im not going to pay and have rung head office to talk to him.
Mazda Head Office are now aware of everything and will be dealing with things accordingly - if i wanted to return the car i have to talk to the company who finance the car but they have to have sufficient information on how i nearly got killed :S
I am prepared to spend money on me winning this & showing the big company's they cant say or do what they want. Hopefully it will be with your help? :P
Thanks.
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Med, if your oil level has gone up due to the DPF regeneration then it will not shoot up - it will go up fairly gradually. The additional diesel is only going to be injected if an active regeneration is currently needed. This is when the filter is getting full and the passive regeneration conditions have not been met (i.e. exhaust at a high enough temperature for long enough to burn the soot out of the DPF automatically).
I would think checking the oil level weekly is enough - but not for just being low I should add. You need to note if the oil level has risen above the F mark and heading towards X.
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As Steve says, these cars are clearly unfit for purpose.
Engine makers have been designing piston rings since 1900 with the object of maintaining compression and scraping oil sprayed onto the bores for lubrication, back into the sump. They work very well - many modern engines will run to high mileages and yet require no additional oil between changes. It's because the rings work so well that the redundant fuel (which is put there thanks to the politicians and a lack of proper engine development by Mazda) ends up in the sump.
Once the oil is down there, the blowby will contain increasing quantities of fuel. In answer to a post higher up, partial engine runaway is still posssible - the air-borne fuel merely adds to the injected fuel and increases the engine speed. If the air-borne fuel is insufficient in quantity to sustain the engine it will stop (probably reluctantly) "on the key".
A very dangerous and unsatisfactory situation. How does our spineless Vehicle Inspectorate allow this to continue?
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 04/08/2009 at 12:33
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A lot of people have mentioned alerting Watchdog etc about this, has anyone tried Top Gear / Fifth Gear etc?
I would suggest the mainstream motoring magazines but they may approach the story with trepidation because of Mazda's advertising spend.
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Hi Guys - Further update.
I havnt managed to do any work in the office today!
I managed to find a company that know everything and anything about diesel engines, i rung them up and the gentleman was the most helpful person i have ever spoke to on the phone. I told him exactly what happened, with the white smoke increasing of speed etc & that i check the oil everyweek. He stopped me and said he is most sure in all of his experience that the sudden increase of oil & acceleration is due to diesel being leaked into the oil which then goes into the injector pumps then into the injector valves. He also said, IF for example i had filled the engine up there is no possible way it could have been filled up as much as i explained to him (RAC have also agreed to back me up on exactly what they see)
Imagine the size of the dipstick, when i see it the oil levels were just below half of the size of the dipstick, you could get oil on your hands just holding it.
He told me immediately to go down to mazda (which my mum has to do, as im in London) and ask for a sample & in writing that the oil will not be dumped. As soon as he said this to me, it rung bells for hte reason that Mazda told me a few hours ago.... "Sir, one thing we have to do before you collect the vehicle is to dump the oil" Luckily i said no way.
VOSA telephoned me today in regards to me tyre valves as previously posted, and they are going after a recall on that side if they can find anyone else with the same problem, but will put the recall through anyway....I then told him about my problem, he wanted to listen :) he then gave me advice and he cant even understand why the oil and how it could be filled up so much.
Thanks.
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If diesel has found its way into the sump oil i am not quite sure how that would then find its way into the injectors as your diesel expert has said.
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Via Chinese whispers, courtesy of a non technical type?
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Got a solution. Had a masssssivvvee argument with mazda...
Have a guess everyone how many litres of diesel is in the oil??
Edited by Med on 04/08/2009 at 17:27
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2.5 litres ?
to think this diesel all has to wash down through the bores !
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they said A LOT...he stated 2 gallons of diesel.
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Also, they said these cars are only designed for long journeys. :S:S not short journeys..
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wow. I must get a test drive in a diesel 6 and see if I can get 2 gallons of diesel in the sump.
I would think the crank would be spinning in diesel and the pistons would hit the stuff on the way down - and that would be the end
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2 gallons of diesel?
A larf.?
With 2 gallons the block would be half full...and the crankshaft would have seized due to cavitation of the oil due to bubbles..
As Mazda diesel problems are as well known as Renault.. can't say I am surprised.. .
Wish you luck Med,
I'm with Lud on this one...
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As mazda stated - he said there is alarge amount of diesel in the oil. Whether he panicked or what i don't know. But for sure, there is large amount of diesel.
The car is at home now, thanks to mazda kindly dropping it off on their tow truck, and if i open the engine oil cap i can smell diesel already, tak the dipstick out and it stinks of it & it's very diluted.
I asked mazda why they never told me it had diesel in the engine yesterday and we prepared to take my money to have new oil put in it because at evry first i was blamed for adding oil! They knew damn right that there was diesel in it.
So, today i done my reasearch & go to mazda to tell them i would like a sample - i was told why do i want a sample for.... and they understand what im trying to get at - being very apologetic he then says oh yes sir, there is diesel in the engine we are so sorry we forgot to tell you.... After, mazda head office are still saying its my fault for not checking when mazda dealer said if there was a problem with the engine then this diesel could have been fuelled in the oil tank very very quickly.
I have re-read the manual as mazda told me to read up on DPF... it has less than half a small page on it saying this problem will occur when you drive at low speeds constantly or leave the engine running too long. On google DPF means:
?A devise which physically captures diesel particulates and prevents their discharge from the tailpipe.
So, there is no warning light and never has been, i have never seen this light come up! The only light i have seen was a few months back when the engine warning light appeared and then mazda blaming a DPF problem.... Sorry, ain't there meant to be a DPF warning light??
Im confused! Oh & mazda have a way to check if i have checked the oil every week...... Nope, not a finger print reader but.... ready?? They look around the dipstick and see if any oil has hit the side, and they said no... funny that seeing as RAC looked at it sunday. lol
Another thing, when mazda dealer said sorry to me - they even offered a free service- i declined because they proved they were in the wrong.
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Med, i wish you all the best with a good result. As already clearly stated these are not fit for purpose & as yours is not the first you may get a result. It was quite clear from the start that the sump was full of diesel & thats why i stated that you may of had a serious fault with an injector or seals or software.
I would not expect to drive a car where checking the oil evry so many miles ( within reason) is life or death. Mazda have got it wrong & they know it.
Some manufactures have a sensor in the sump that if the oil is too contaminated a warning light comes on.
Well as for DPMF's the only winners are the goverment at our own expense
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This does not sound to me to be the DPF problem of dumping some diesel in the sump though. This sounds like a lot of diesel ended up in the engine oil very quickly.
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However the diesel got in there Mazda has got a big problem on its hands. MPV's that don't do short journeys (school runs), engines that need to be watched over like a 1930s two stroke motorcycle and failure modes that in the best case cause thousands of pounds of engine damage and in the worst case cause death or injury ....... coo er I would not like to have the job of "chief designer, Mazda" on my business card.
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As a Mazda6 diesel driver I think the problem is being blown a little out of proportion. But it is a potential problem.
I got an interim oil change because the lease company could not (would not) take some responsibility. But oil level never moved again until the next service.
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Just glad I dont have one. Whoever designed an engine that can fill itself (even a little tiny bit) with fuel thus diluting the quality of the engine oil needs to go back to the school of engine design - what a grade A muppet.
And as for one that fills itself so much that it needs to have the excess drained off or the oil changed to restore the quality - well it beggars belief. And just thinking about it someone else at Mazda in the dash board light department had to incorporate a warning light - wouldn't someone in the chain of people involved have said "hang on a minute....?" - a light to tell you to drain some oil OUT and a sticker under the bonnet to warn you about the engine self destructing.....why didn't one of them speak out and say this is all wrong.
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steve,
There is no light to say drain oil. I am tempted to delete your posts as they are not based on any knowledge. There is a DPF light to say it needs to regenerate if it has not been able to passively regenerate.
So unless you have something useful to add, then please refrain from posting. Thanks.
Oh and Mazda's are not the only cars that do this...
Rob
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Well, I was contemplating changing my '02 Peugeot 406 estate (only 60k on the clock) for either a Mazda 6 estate or a Kia Ceed estate. I think I can rule out the Mazda!!!!!
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you are right - not based on knowledge just what I picked up on here - just my thoughts thats all.
If you feel they should be deleted thats fine.
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Hey good afternoon....
Mazda are refusing to give me the archive of my car.. from when it first came in for a check up to all the times its been in since this happened. Apparently i have to ask a solicitor who then has to write a letter to head office to confirm with them its ok? Anyone heard of this before...
I've booked an independent inspection, £175.00 with dekra they will be able to tell me how much diesel is in the engine and if it's done any more damage to the engine. Ok, im sorry if it's been said before.... but, mazda are still saying its a DPF problem that all that diesel has got in the engine, but the only way the DPF can go wrong is that if i drive at slow speeds & keep the car idle for a long time, but this happened to me on a major road going 65 mph & i never have once seen this DPF light come on... Yeah, previously i've seen the engine light but never the DPF. How can so much diesel be injected into the oil? It's so diluted that when i open the engine oil cap i can clearly see the top part where all the parts are, whereas before i couldnt.
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>>when i open the engine oil cap i can clearly see the top part where all the parts are, whereas before i couldnt.
Why not, what was hiding it?
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The engine oil cap, when i unscrew it i can see all the metal inside it... so i think thats just one way to see how diluted the oil is. It looks just really clean inside like no oil has been there before..
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I would suggest that you simply put your request in writing - you do not need to go to the expense of asking a solicitor to write a letter - unless Mazda wants to pay your costs I guess.
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Hi everyone... me again.
Im trying to ask for a letter from mazda by fax to state there is diesel in the oil... they wont give it to me.. the only letter they gave was to say:
"as per our recent telephone conversation i can confirm that the reason why the oil has increased is because of the normal operation of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). Please refer to owner's 5-46 and section 8-22 for operation and owners maintenance.
When the car came into us the oil level was over the X mark and according to the owners manual and the label on the engine cover the oil should have been replaced. We checked the operation of the DPF system via IDS and again can confirm that there were no recorded malfunctions of this system.
As oil change/replacement is not covered under the terms of the warranty. (warranty manual section A2.5) we have offered to remove and replace the oil and carry out the computers re-set.
Due to the car being around 500 miles away from the service we had offered to carry out the service at a reduced cost. We can only recommend that the oil is changed (service carried out) and the DPF system and the performance is then monitored to ensure correct performance and reliability."
But he will NOT give me a letter to state anything about the diesel. I am now seriouly concerned they will say no diesel was found in the oil when it was here.
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Med
I think you have sufficient admission in that letter that the car is not fit for purpose - just IMHO - and without any knowledge about Mazdas specifically.
The reason I say this is because the "oil does not increase" - the oil is actually being contaminated with diesel and, whilst not as bad as chucking regular gasoline into the engine oil, it will not do anything for the longevity of the engine. It seems that Mazda is saying that this is normal for the DPF system. Maybe it is - does not make it any good or usable in the real world.
If it were my car (and again with the caveat that I am not an expert) I would pursue the route that you are already pursuing with the independent inspection; see what that says about the level of diesel in the oil. I would also ask them to state their opinions about the likely impact of running an engine with that level of diesel.
Then decide what to do. If the report is really bad I would ask Mazda to refund the money for the car (less an amount for fair wear) on the basis that it is not fit for its intended purpose and is dangerous to drive. You need to do this in writing although you do not need a solicitor. If the Mazda response to the first letter is negative which it looks like it will be - then you only have two options
1. the easy one for a quiet life; sell the car buy another and put it down to experience
2. take them to court.
Good luck.
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If the oil was at or over the X mark (the FULL mark is a lot lower on the dipstick) then it's been run with too much oil for sometime. You admit to checking only for low oil. You did spot it had gone over the Full (F) mark hadn't you and were keeping an eye on it.
I really think you have been lucky if the oil really is at or above the X mark not to need a new engine and turbo.
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The reason im so annoyed is that i checked the oil on the monday, this problem happened to me on sunday. I asked mazda how quickly the diesel can go into the engine oil & he says he don't know because there is no way to tell. Well if i have checked the oil on the monday then its happened within that week & thats whats caused the oil level to rise so dramatically and fast.
He keeps blaming the DPF for not regenerating, and as i come to understand the DPF regenerates going over 40+ for 15-25 minutes, i was on the motorway for approx 1 hour.
Im getting my engine inspected in the next few days, costing a whoppng £340 because every garage & specialist i have spoke to they said even if the DPF failed it would not have let a massive load of diesel in the oil.
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This is a miserable situation which will never have a satisfactory outcome.
The car and its engine are your property. So is the oil inside it. Take a witness and a clean jar and syphon tube and demand to take an oil sample. Seal the jar and get the witness to sign the seal label. Get the witness to verify the dipstick level before the sample is taken.
This could stand you in good stead if you have the fortitude to take these people on. The fact that you have an oil sample may focus their minds a little. Best of luck.
rotodiesel.
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You admitted earleir to only checking for low oil levels. If true then the oil level went above Full (F) and was heading towards X for some time. DPF regeneration will not have injected this much fuel into the sump in a week.
And it only does this when the DPF needs regenerating and has not been able to do so passively. During passive regeneration, no fuel is injected into the exhaust. The exhaust temperature when driven fast enough for long enough just burns off the soot in the DPF automatically.
It seems that this is some other problem or not all facts have come to light yet.
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Med, don't panick about the oil, you are taking the right stance. there is a fault! one that nearly killed you & remember its not the first as you had the valve experience.
You have sufficenet eveidence that you are not alone & the vehicle is not fit for purpose. The only thing you need to prove its not fit for purpose is other experinecing the same problem. Well I think you have that from this site alone & no doubt can collect more evidence.
The letter from the dealer is just factual & non commital as they will be loyal to mazda.
As you have also stated you don't just potter around. The dealer can't comment on the oil being contaminated without having it tested. I feel sorry for you with all the hastle factor but just gather the factual eveidence & follow your instincts.
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Others on this site have not had the oil level jump so quickly. So this site does not prove anything. As a Mazda6 diesel driver I have looked into this. I have had the oil level go up a bit but nowhere near this fast.
I too feel sorry for the OP but he has admitted here he never checked the oil for more than being low. So the oil level could have been going up for sometime.
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And unlike most on here, Med is not so anonymous as he gave his name.
Some employees of Mazda frequent this forum and he has admitted not properly checking his oil. Posting his name and rough location may not have been wise.
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rtj70 - I read another forum before this happened and understand that mazda people can read this forum, so why do you think i put my name here & are not worried about doing so?
I rectified what i meant when i very first wrote the post, saying the last time mazda checked it. Then i said i checked it for low oil every week is because it was normal every week.... If you do read it it says it went up so much in a week & i checked it on monday drove a lot by the time sunday came around... So for mazda to tell me they don't know why so much diesel is now in the engine oil & they dont know how fast that diesel could have been leaking for.. The most obvious on this is that it happened from when i checked the oil until sunday....
I have to add to such relief i forgot i took a picture on my phone when broken down, at first i only considered taking the picture to prove to mazda i was 500yrs from a roundabout & my sat nav says so, this can also be confirmed by RAC because i was in the exact same position as when i rung them. The picture shows the whole inside of the car where i sit & shows the engine running because the acceleration is not on 0rpm and lingering on 1000rpm, it shows no DPF or engine warning light.
Mazda are telling me they plugged it into there computer and the DPF warning light was on & it was on when i broke down. Would you agree this is more than enough to prove no warning lights were on?
Thanks,
Mehdi.
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Is this the same engine that 'Screwloose' used to curse as being an almost certain failure?
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Funnt thing that rtj as this sounds familiar:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=70087
Just wondering how many other Mazda Diesel drivers have experienced problems with their Diesel Particulate Filter. My Mazda 6 2.0TS engine blew up about 11 weeks ago and now the bill to fix it is nearly up to £9,000.
I want to know if many other drivers are experiencing their oil levels rising a little too quickly for their liking? Any others that are experiencing similar problems would help my fight against this pending bill.
To date they have fiited a new engine, new clutch, new catalatytic converter and some other bits and pieces. I've just been told today that the new engines themostat is faulty and therefore needs replacing before i get it back. By the way the car is from a lease company.
If you have already read about my plight on another thread already, please add any other info that may help.
Regards,
Nick 1969
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another satisfied mazda owner:
whatcar.com/car-reviews/used/mazda/6-hatchback/readers-reviews/23730-5
{the swearfilter trashed the link as we don't allow clickable links to a competitors website. Have since made it non clickable}
My car
I purchased this car new in 2006 and first impressions were very positive,the car is pretty much fully loaded as standard. being the TD model my car was fitted with the DPF and here is where my problems began,unless you do high mileage the dpf deposits unburnt fuel back to the sump, every time i dipped the oil it was halfway up the dipstick diluting the oil.Eventually the dpf warning light comes on and the car goes into limp you home mode, Mazda has no cure for this except to tell you to do more miles!I eventually swapped the car for a petrol model which has been 100% reliable
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/08/2009 at 01:31
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The quote above is not stating facts either - I know it's not injection doc's words.
The DPF light comes on when a forced regeneration is necessary - i.e. you've now driven it long enough and far enough that the DPF is nearly full. If you ignore this light then you need to go to the dealer for them to regenerate it for you. This all has nothing to do with the level of oil and is only an indicator of the DPF filling up.
I've said it before, but other car companies have DPFs that work in a very similar way...
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I have not said the oil level does not go up. But it does not go up from Full to the X mark in a week due to DPF. So that means the oil level on Med's car was already rising and high or this is another problem unrelated to the DPF. That is all.
My oil level went up after about 4000 miles and the lease company decided to change the oil. It did not go up at all after that until the next service.
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I will do anything any everything to help anyone. I'll persuit this and wont give up. It is the principal of the car being too dangerous to drive.
rtj70, i understand what your saying but my oil levels were over maximum because there is a massive amount of diesel inside the engine oil... if i take the dipstick out right now it will be more like water than any thick fluid, so this is the reason why the oil levels rose dramatically... Because somewhere there is a leak or something.
If we all come to this post with the problems we are all having + advertising to bring people here i will do everything in my power & with a top london solicitor i will fight this with all of your help & hopefully come to a conclusion then you will all be able to claim what ever money you have lost. This is just no on, seriously... I would understand if no-one else had the problem & it was rare but this is happening to hundreds of people, of whom all have the same/similar problems which all relates to the DPF.
I'm booking the car into an engine specialist & fuel specialist of whome will look into this DPF problem mazda are giving me. I'll keep you posed on that - meanwhile, watchdog have been informed as-well as my local newspaper saying hundreds of people are having the same problem.
There was a post that Nick done about the same thing but unforunately he has had to pay the whole lot like the rest of you..
How much have you all lost so far?
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What I am trying to get across is that if the oil level rose very quickly due to diesel contamination then it may not be the DPF problem. If you simply insist it's DPF and it's not then you might not prove your case.
In fact the DPF issue causes oil levels to rise slowly - are you sure your oil level was not getting close to X? If it was then Mazda will claim you did not follow the maintenance guidelines etc etc and blame you. I'm not defending Mazda on this but pointing out it does not sound like the DPF issue. Now could it be something to do with injectors??
On the Mazda6 diesel (no the new shape) there was an official VOSA recall related to the engine fuelling and there was also a problem with injector seals (I believe). The latter were replaced when serviced if necessary.
If your car is the new shape Mazda6 (it must be for it to be 08) but is a 2.0d then it will have the same engine (albeit detuned) compared to mine.
Edited by rtj70 on 05/08/2009 at 22:57
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Im not saying its DPF... its mazda who are trying to make me believe the reason i nearly had the accident because its a DPF problem & that's in writing from mazda as above... Im trying to fight that no DPF warning light came on so it could be a DPF problem but something else.
If i prove that its not DPF then the people who's engines blew up due to excessive revving and that always check their oil mazda told them it was a DPF problem when it probably wasnt.
Its a new shape yep, and a 2.0d SL - if it's considered for it to be "engine fuelling and there was also a problem with injector seals" then why and how can mazda say its definetely the DPF and nothing else....Are their technicians not technicians?
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My Mazda6 2.0d is the old share - it has the 143PS engine.
The DPF active regeneration process can lead to diesel in the sump oil. But this will be gradual increase in oil level.
So I'd suggest you make sure you have your story straight. Most people do not read the handbook so do not realise the oil level can rise!
Another fact that may help you/others. The new 2.2d Mazda engines have a newer DPF which needs to regenerate half as often as does it twice as quickly. So if it needs active regeneration the oil level couldn't increase so quickly.
Actually I cannot help but think the potential problem on the recall covers what you have experienced! Take a look at:
tinyurl.com/clw5mq (Links to VOSA recall notice)
Maybe the recall does apply but you never got the recall notice being second owner? It covers cars built in 2008 so includes the new shape Mazda6 for sure!!!!
Edited by rtj70 on 05/08/2009 at 23:43
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Just to make it clear (I edited my post) the problem in this post seems to relate to the recall issued via VOSA. At least it needs exploring. If engine oil level is high then that's another issue?
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Thanks rtj70 - i have just printed that & will help progress this case even further. So thank you so so much. :)
I am the first owner of this car & nothing was ever told to me.
Does this mean everyone else will be in the same boat?
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My advice Med is that you retreat from public forums and concentrate on your dispute with Mazda; and more specifically with the dealer that sold you the car. Don't be fobbed off by them that it is "up to MAzda" - your contract is with the dealer.
Once you have the independent report simply take the facts from that (and assuming it says what you think it will) and write a letter to the dealer principal telling him that the car is 1. not fit for purpose and 2. dangerous and on that basis it is rejected and please return your money plus costs. You may wish to be reasonable and take off a sum for xx miles of use that you have "enjoyed". Give them 7 days to reply. If negative dont waste any more time and launch a summons again on to the dealer principal. Ignore any comments that it is Mazda and not him. At this stage I would cease any further phone calls with them and insist everything is put in writing. Keep a detailed record of everything and start to prepare a case file as I guess that this may end up in a small claims court or very close to it.
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Just one final comment from me on this thread....why does everyone keep talking about the oil level having increased? The amount of oil has not changed. What has happened is that diesel fuel has got into the oil. A big difference IMHO.
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You're right the amount of oil has not increased but the level of fluid in the sump has gone up. But is that the problem Med has?
BTW Med, your name edited out of your original post.
I must admit the problem that the recall covers sounds a lot like yours - so if it is why did this Mazda dealer not know? The chassis numbers covered by the recall are on the VOSA site so you can do some checking now.
My local Mazda dealer is pretty good so I won't criticise all.
P.S. I have a leaking shock absorber on the car... part on back order but booked in next Tuesday. Picked up at the service.
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Steve - thanks.
I will be doing exactly as you said. I am getting so worked up on this it's on my mind even when im sleeping! I spoke to the person who sold me the car on monday just gone (maybe i shouldnt have) but he said its nothing to do with him because i've got finance on the car, is that correct? now i just deal with mazda credit?
Oh and another thing, when i first bought the car ive got all the documents ive signed & it says on it my first service will cost me 213.00 but mazda dealer told me it will cost 480.00 odd + VAT & Labour. Sorry if this has nothing to do with things.
Im putting all my files together.
Guys, Thank you all. Any other news, help etc please post more to keep this going.
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£480 sounds high for a first or second service! The expensive one is at 75k miles I think (and that costs quite a bit).
And Med, you're always welcome to email me (I'm actually one of the moderators so I'm rob_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk) even if you don't post. You might guess I've done lots of reading up on this. And I'm at Mazda on Tuesday so could ask some questions in passing ;-)
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shippers here,steve is 100% right, your acredited mazda dealer has been selected to supply and service your mazda, by mazda ,any problems they have to deal with regarding your problem they ,as a designated dealership would have to inform mazda uk,you bought from them they are the middle man they should sort with mazda not you ,good luck, just found this site its great youll see my probs no spark fiesta
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As the vehicle is under a finance agreement, he should also copy all his rejection details to them as well.
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Med,
I guess it depends on who your contract of supply is with. When you say it is financed is it a lease car or have you simply borrowed some of the money to purchase the car? It is an important point to establish right now as you dont want to find that you waste your time issuing a summons on a party that it is not legally responsible. I would suggest that you phone the Trading Standards team (google the number) and explain the situation to them - the main question to them is who is responsible towards you - ie who is your contract with and who should you register the rejection and claim with? At that point I would cease any communication with any other party and deal only in writing with your formal supplier. Keep it all in writing and with that one party otherwise there will be scope for confusion - he told me that you had said to him etc etc. You don't need that. Also keep it off internet forums as part of the value of a final settlement may be a confidentiality provision - ie we will settle your claim but you are "gagged" - big potential value to mazda for that and you will have destroyed that option if you post everything on the internet.
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just seen Rob's question about whether the level of fluid in the sump is the cause of Med's problems - I had assumed it was as it is well known that if you overfill the engine oil in a diesel car it can run on its own engine oil and be difficult to stop before it blows up - a problem that I assume to be exacerbated if the excess fluid in the sump is actually fuel!
I remain flabbergasted that it is designed to do this.
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Hi Steve, so should i use the internet forums as a help to my case to the very last? when mazda are still denying it all? I gathered if i get as much evidence as possible it will make my case a lot lot stronger against them.
I'm going to get a sample sent off today of my oil because even though there clearly is diesel in the oil by the smell and dilution i have to have a writting report of it.
Its financed for personal not for lease & is under mazda credit.
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med,
sounds to me like your deal is with the dealer that sold you the car; the fact that it is financed is probably irrelevant - but do give trading standards a call- you will be surprised how knowledgable and helpful they are - you can also share the specifics of your case with them in confidence.
If it turns out that your contract is with Mazda finance for the supply of the car (ie as well as the finance) then you will need to reject the car and pursue a claim with them. If the contract is with the dealer then you will need to pursue the dealer - and I would suggest in that case simply cc for info every letter to Mazda Finance. The one party that you will not need to deal with is mazda themselves.
My only point about internet forums is that they are great for you to gather evidence and more info but my suggestion was that you keep it as anonomous as possible and dont post specifics as you may harm your private negotiations.
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my suggestion was that you keep it as anonomous as possible and dont post specifics as you may harm your private negotiations.
Which is why I removed his name from the first post. But search engines like google will already have cached copies of the original post unfortunately.
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Ok, i understand now..thanks.
So should i now stop talking about my plans?
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Hello Again Everyone..
I have to continue to write on this topic. I am having no joy what so ever from all angles of mazda's departments, whether it be head office, finance, dealers & technicians.
They all blame it on the DPF even though no warning light appeared on my car & of which has been confirmed by RAC. One letter after another including so many telephone calls trying all tell me to read the handbook on what DPF means, correct me if im slightly wrong.....The DPF needs to regen it's self for 15 minutes at 25MPH+... Don't make sense that they blame it on the DPF if i was travelling down an 'A' road for approximately 1hr non-stop at 65MPH plus with no warning lights coming on. Help Clarify how mazda can say the DPF never has time to regen?
One dealer says i must have put oil in my self then come to say there is diesel in the oil, the other come to say its 100% a DPF problem but all are un-willing to provide me the archives of the car when it was first taken in for engine warning lights, even after writing letters under the freedom of information act.. Mazda head office are rude & ignorant (I hope they read this)
My solicitor adviced me to telephone them again today to ask for my files & was answered with a blunt attitude. They are backing me up into a corner, left, right & centre.
Head office confirmed in writing that this car is more suitable for long journeys but not unsuitable for short journeys, only providing the vehicle is driven to enable the DPF to regenerate. :S Which it was.....& i told them i was driving far though & it was laughed off.
I was also advised that the problem near enough sure of it, was because the car is 500 miles due from a service (where does it say in the handbook i have to take the car in for a service 500 miles from a service? it says take it in for a servicve at 12,500 miles.)
Im so far backed into a corner i am losing my mind & losing the will where to find help.
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The problem with how DPF works: 1
1. The car is being mainly driven locally or stop start traffic and the DPF filter will be filling up. It never has a chance to passively regenerate.
2. The DPF is now getting to about 75% full and the car is now trying to pro-actively regenerate (injecting diesel) but never finishes the process due to short journeys. DPF continues to fill.
3. Car repeats 2 for a bit but never reaches the next (85%?) level on the DPF
4. Car taken on a long enough journey for the DPF to regenerate.
5. Repeat 1-4.... the oil level will go up but you never see a DPF light
6. Oil level gets to X and you need a new engine and turbo.
Remember, until the DPF is about 75% full it will not try to regenerate by injecting diesel on the exhaust cycle.
But med, your symptoms of the engine revs rising sound like the recall I mentioned. Has it had the recall or was it not in the batch? You have checked out the recall haven't you? If the problem was due to oil levels you're lucky it did not take out the engine and turbo.
My thoughts were that when the car is in need of doing active regeneration (or doing it) a light needs to be on so you know about it and let it finish... At the moment it might be starting the process just as you switch off the engine and it has to inject all that diesel again.
1 I tried arguing this with a Mazda6 salesman the other week in fact and he will hopefully send my thoughts to Mazda...
Edited by rtj70 on 24/08/2009 at 17:18
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at the bottom of this page, Med, try the "Ask a Mazda Mechanic now Google ad - this is the link
tinyurl.com/lzg88c {Link shortened to restore correct page width using the 'tinyurl' link conveniently placed in the sticky post at the top of this forum!}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/08/2009 at 19:37
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Rtj, i understand the DPF. But as i say again i have never seen this DPF light, ever.
I tell you what happened. I was meant to get an 08 plate mazda 6, but it was delayed approximately 6 months giving no reason from the dealer just that there was a delay in transit & i would now be getting a 58 Plate (at the time i thought fantastic, what a stroke of luck)
I have checked the recall and the Chassis number is one below myn. I have the JMZGH and the one previous is JMZGG (does that work on the year of manufacture?)
The only place i can now go is the solicitor, but even that seems like it going to be an endless battle.. Unless i gather some sort of evidence to prove mazda wrong & i know they are wrong. Where can i find a DPF & Engine expert that will take on mazda?? No-where...
.*********
Rtj, believe me - i know i go on about this.. But i have no other choice/option. I can't even talk with any mazda department any more, even when i ring and ask if they want a reference its "oh, its you again". Any further advice?
Please? :) Thank You.
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i say again i have never seen this DPF light, ever.
What about when you first turn the ignition on?
Isn't there a 'bulb check' for a few seconds?
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Sorry, when i turn the car on it is there. But you barely notice it, its there for 3 seconds. At least i know the DPF light hasnt blown!
I have been reading through the handbook again and it says:
Note: When the DPF indicator light flashes, the engine output is restricted to protect the DPF.
No flashing light, No slowing down (on this occasion) but increasing of speed.... This means it cant be the DPF? The handbook says it.
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I believe the DPF light on the new Mazda6 works differently than on my Mazda6. On mine solid light for the DPF means it needs regenerating so go and drive it. Flashing DPF light and it needs to go to a dealer now. Failure to do so means the DPF may need replacing.
The DPF light has nothing to do with oil levels however. Rising oil level is just a by product of the DPF regeneration policy when a forced regeneration becomes necessary.
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Could you guys tell me...
I have the paper in front of me and i ordered the car on the 14/04/2008 and then i recieved the car on 01/09/2008. Which as you can see is a 5 months gap.
If there was that much of a delay it means i would have got an 08 plate, tons of people on here with the same problem have the 08 plate mazda 6 & makes me wonder if it should have gone for a recall. But now because it was delayed in manufacturing i have the 58 plate & it will pass the date of the recall, i.e. cars from 07 - 08 needs to be recalled.
Could this mean anything?
the mazda handbook says: If the tachometer reaches the red level then it may cause severe damage to the engine - how true is that?
How many of you that has had the same problem are wiling to provide evidence or back me up in court on this?
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I think you'll find those on here with problem have the pervious model Mazda6.
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Ok, but the systems work the same? I thought people said they have the 08 version.
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Some on these forums have older cars I believe. As you know I have one from 2007.
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Hey all,
Mazda are sending me letters saying i need my service done. Its either 12,500 miles or 1 year. The 1 Year will end in a few days & i can't have my service done because the wholw dispute includes the Oil, Filter etc etc. What's my course of action on this?
Thank You & Have a nice bank holiday weekend (hopefully no rain?)
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