Just had a discussion about this on another forum. Don't forget US gallon is smaller than ours (as it their pint, and - I didn't know this until today - their fluid ounce).
Anyway, higher grades of fuel in some places is touching $3 US gallon, which works out at 47p/litre - so half our price.
However, they've seen much bigger % rise than we have because a lot of our price is made up of duty, which is fixed.
Also bear in mind that US drivers are in vehicles that often only do 15MPG, and they tend to drive greater distances than we do.
All in all, higher gas prices are really hurting over there - I deal with the US quite a bit, and they're rageing about it.
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With reference to Bill Payer's post, by coincidence I recently checked on the average annual mileage of car drivers in the USA and it is about 13,000, having increased by 30% over the past seven years (I think).
Another bit of Googling exposed the following UK annual mileage stats at:
www.autowired.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=12101
Car size
Small: 8.5k petrol, 10.1k diesel
Lower-medium: 11.2k petrol, 15.3k diesel
Upper-medium: 16.4k petrol, 18.1k diesel
Large: 15.9k petrol, 17.1-21.5 diesel
Coupé/convertible: 11.6k petrol and diesel
MPV: 9.7k petrol, 14.8k diesel
4x4: 12.4k petrol, 13.6k diesel
Not to hard to guess why MPVs and 4x4s are at the low end of the range, is it?
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Also bear in mind that US drivers are in vehicles that often only do 15MPG, and they tend to drive greater distances than we do. All in all, higher gas prices are really hurting over there - I deal with the US quite a bit, and they're rageing about it.
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The us have had plenty of time to stop buying blatantly gas-guzzling vehicles, so perhaps this will serve to change their energy wasting ways a little bit !
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I saw £1.04 for a litre of diesel on the isle of Lewis back in July. Cheapest available was £1.01.
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People here in the US are incandescent with rage about the $3 a gallon gas.
They are not too comforted when I point out it's $7 a gallon in the UK - or that they are used to prices during the 85-95 period which were very low in historical terms (the reason the Tories introduced the fuel duty escalator)
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If you really want doom stories, it may get MUCH worse.
The oil majors are not finding new oil in huge quantities.
World demand is growing 5% pa.
Saudi supplies 10% of world output. Its oldest oil field supplies half it's output. That field is 50 years old. Depending on whom you speak to it will runout 2-3 years from now or 15 years (some experts/Saudis respectively).
The US Gov't has decided to increase the size of the US Strategic Oil Reserve from 700Million to 1,000 Million barrels of oil. ASAP. Why?
North Sea Oilfields are in steep decline . Worn out . Depleted.
And OPEC's figures on Reserves are more motivated by Production Quotas (the bigger the reserve the bigger the quota) than by reality. Probably double reality.
World oil production may actually peak in 2006 and then slowly decline. Iraq of course is a disaster and output keeps falling (not rising as forecast post war)
The Chinese are starting to buy up oil companies at record prices. They paid between $7.5 and $10 per barrel for Petrokazhastan Inc last month.
I expect we could see oil at $100 per barrel by 2006-7.
(of course if we have a world recession due to oil prices, impact could be reduced demand and lower prices).
Most official statements by oil majors and Governments have been soothing - and wrong - in past 3 years regarding oil prices. So either they are ALL incompetent or the party line is being followed to avoid panic. I suspect the latter.
Oil shares - especially smaller Exploration and Production comapnies - have risen a lot in the last year. But oil analysts are still forecasting that oil prices will fall in 2006 and 2007. Given that they did not forecast $50 per barrel this year - let alone $70 - they have zero crediblity. So future earnings forecasts for oil producers are understated by 30 to 50% or more.
I expect the najor US car makers to be in even more serious financial difficulties in the next two years as their gas guzzling monsters become too expensive for even Americans.
Statements like "there are enough reserves for the next 100 years" are total and utter ignorant PR spouted to keep the poulation quiet. Sure there is a lot of oil in the ground but much of it is VERY expensive in energy and infrastructure to produce (Canadian tarsands for a start). If you have to spend 50% of a barrel of oil to produce it, what does that do for the cost?
Neither the US nor the UK have built any new refineries for the lpast 15 years + as profits on refined products have been poor. So refinery capacity is used 100% nearly in US . UK and Europe are using more diesel and the refining capacity is not there to meet demand. Think 7 years to build a new refinery. None planned yet in UK so 10 years plus - IF they can get planning permission.
Oil prices tend to run in multi year (15?) cycles. The last low was 1998-9 when at $10-$15 no new drilling started because production was uneconomic. All new output is justified on $25 per barrel as the last oil reccession did such damge due to overcapacity. So this current cycle will run to 2014 at least.
I own oil shares - a lot. I hope and expect my current holdings to rise 300% as a minimum to 1,000% in the next 3 years. Then I'll buy the biggest SUV I can afford..not:-)
madf
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Interesting commentary madf
A friend also owns conoco Phillips stock and is cock-a-hoop at the moment
There are various interesting articles on the subject here
econbrowser.com/
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The Americans have enjoyed low cost fuel for far too long, especially in view of the sheer overall consumption compared to the rest of the world.
Unfortunately politicians have been fully aware of the bitter kickback that would result from even putting a cent on a gallon and refused to tackle American psyche on the subject.
My sympathy for Americans having to pay more for fuel is now pretty much the same as it is for Australians desperately hoping their team can stage the first major comeback of the 21st century...:-)
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Can't remember where I read this, but apparently, California alone consumes more oil p/a than Japan, which is frankly staggering.
Plenty of oil stories on google. Some might be scare mongering, who knows. Two worth trying are:-
Ghawar is dying
Hubberts Peak
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Japan also has the penalty of having to import ALL its oil requirements.
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Yes, have a lot of sympathy for the Americans. Just finished reading the Autocar article about the 4.6litre V8 GT Mustang, complete with Premium pack, leather, etc., they have imported from the States. Purchase price in New York - 14,741 GBP!
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>Just finished reading the Autocar article about the 4.6litre V8 GT Mustang,
What did they achieve for fuel consumption?
Kevin...
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"The Americans have enjoyed low cost fuel for far too long, especially in view of the sheer overall consumption compared to the rest of the world."
I suppose it would be tactless to point out that it is that very consumption that may have contributed to the present situation. I wonder if the White House understands global warming yet?
Also, I gather that one of the reasons that the emergency services are so stretched there is that most of their former funding has been diverted to the 'war on terror'. Well done, George...
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>I wonder if the White House understands global warming yet?
I wonder if you could explain it to us in really simple terms because I sure as hell don't understand the differing claims (despite conversations with some of the best meteorologists in the world).
Kevin...
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"I sure as hell don't understand the differing claims"
I think you have to accept that a Texas oil man will have a different take on this to a Gaia supporter, but it's hard to argue that melting polar ice and changing weather patterns don't indicate something. The arguments are more to do with causation, but I think the precautionary principle may be worth adopting until there is more consensus, since waiting for incontrovertible proof may be foolhardy. This is the only planet we've got, after all.
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>I expect we could see oil at $100 per barrel by 2006-7.
Possible but unlikely. I expect it to be less than $40/bbl.
>If you really want doom stories, it may get MUCH worse.
US gas prices are rising as a direct result of the oil price and now temporarily, to a smaller extent, because of reduced capacity due to hurricane damage.
The recent rise in oil price has nothing to do with reserves. Between the end of WWII and 2004 the average oil price was $22.86. The median was $17.18 (all adjusted to 2004 dollars).
www.wtrg.com/prices.htm
The reason for $70/bbl is market reaction to political events (Venezuela, Iraq etc.) Once the political arena stabilises, prices will fall.
>as their gas guzzling monsters become too expensive for even Americans.
I own a 5.7L Chevy. It does more MPG than the Porsche it replaced and about the same as my XJ8.
>I hope and expect my current holdings to rise 300% as a minimum to 1,000%
>in the next 3 years.
I hope you're not relying on that prediction for anything serious?
Kevin...
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Kevin said "The recent rise in oil price has nothing to do with reserves. Between the end of WWII and 2004 the average oil price was $22.86. The median was $17.18 (all adjusted to 2004 dollars)"
So what? The average price of gold prior to 1973 was under $50 per ounce. It's now over $400...
Now you'll tell me it's going back to $30..
madf
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Why do these 'natural?' disasters always ocurr just after a NASA space shuttle mission?
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>>Why do these 'natural?' disasters always ocurr just after a NASA space shuttle mission?>>
Oh dear, yet another conspiracy theory....
My daughter lives in the Caymans and lived/survived through Hurricane Ivan last year which was even worse than that which hit New Orleans, with gusts of up to 265mph and 20ft or more waves sweeping over an island whose highest point is just 60ft.
She tells me that the hurricane season has started even earlier than usual this year and that their paths are taking them nearer to the Caymans than ever before.
The just completed space shuttle mission went ahead more than two years after the troubles of the previous one.....
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Read it again, you missed the "(all adjusted to 2004 dollars)".
Kevin...
PS. The price of Gold up to 1971 was also subject to American political influence and economics until Nixon ended the 'Gold Window'.
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Saudia Arabia supplies 50% of oil not 10% and has between 30 and 40 years left at the present pumping rates with untapped and unproven reserves equivelent to another 10 years (this is heavy oil and not much good for petrol ).The Canadian tar fields are yet untapped but none of these added together will be able to meet future demands.
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Sorry but this is just silly nonsense.
Fact: Oil reserves, in years of current consumption basis, have been growing since the beginning of the 20th Century. In 1920, 1940 and 1950 various US government organisations stated categorically that oil supplies would run out in less thamn 15 years time.
Fact: Current reserves at economic extraxtion rates are at about 40 years of current consumption.
Fact: As oil prices rise so will the economic recovery rates from existing and closed wells, recovery rates of under 30% are not particularly unusual in older fields, meaning that there is twice as much oil still down there as was taken out.
Fact: Known Oil shales/tars/sands contain, at $60 a barrel prices, enough economically extractable oil to equal 250 times current oil reserves.
Fact: Energy consumption is no longer increasing in many countries as big increases in efficiency have allowed production increases with no increase in energy usage.
Fact: At around $60 a barrel alternative sources such as solar, wind and tide are economically viable leading to a ramping up of such production.
Fact: Current prices have nothing to do with long term shortages, but are simply an overstatement of the current immediate supply problems caused by speculation.
Fact: The short term difficulties have more to do with refining difficulties in the US than the war in Iraq.
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Fuel cost graph on tonights channel 4 news showed a price of $1.75 a gallon on the day before the huricane had now risen to oapprox $2.50, still cheap by UK standards.
I think you have misread that.
Petrol was $1.75 a US gallon a year ago - approx 26p a litre
It was around $2.59 just before the Hurricane(38p) - I was buying it.
It is now about $3(44p) although much higher where some garage owners have taken advantage of the situation - $6(88p) in one garage in Atlanta ? owner said it was to discourage people from buying.
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>It is now about $3(44p)
Ahem, today's dollar exchange rate is 1.83 to the GBP. I think your adding up needs to be revisited--I'm estimating $3 is roughly £1.60.
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Oh, I see, you meant per liter--my mistake.
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what I don't understand is how it can sell for $0.14/gal in Venezuela
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what I don't understand is how it can sell for $0.14/gal in Venezuela
Benfit of a socialist government :-)
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what I don't understand is how it can sell for $0.14/gal in Venezuela
And hence the source of argument about Chavez. Essentially he is using export revenue, or oil and other stuff, to subsidise the entire economy in order to bring some stability and growth.
The argument being that some think he is a hero, and some think it is artificial and will bring the country to its knees since the economy is supported by oil revenues and therefore is not sustainable if that revenue should decrease or stop.
Essentially the well-off who are ok whatever happens to the country think he is doing the wrong thing and the less well-off who are currently benefitting think he is doing the right thing.
The overall position being that the country is heavily divided wiht a great deal of civil unrest, riots, marches and various political moves including the occasional thread of a military coup and a 5 year long general strike.
And all this subsidy is enabled because fo the increase in oil revenues given the ever increasing price of oil.
[and please, I know its more complicated than that but that is the essence of the position - if you want to know more then www.commondreams.org/views04/0823-13.htm will give you a good overview, although it is biased].
Anyway, what I would like to know is this....
What is the price per litre of unleaded in the US compared to the UK if all tax is EXCLUDED from both prices ?
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Anyway, what I would like to know is this.... What is the price per litre of unleaded in the US compared to the UK if all tax is EXCLUDED from both prices ?
According to the US Government the breakdown of costs for petrol last week was:
Taxes = 19%
Refining = 18%
Distribution and marketing = 8%
Crude Oil costs 55%
That was when the cost of a US gallon was $2.59. Obviously as the price rises the proportions change.
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petrol at my local filling stations,esso,shell,bp,tescos.jet and murco all increased their petrol 3p a litre in one day yesterday.now 94.9p/litre.i now spend 16% of my entire income on fuel just to get to work!!!
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Remember a US gallon is approx 7/8 of an imperial gallon in all comparisons.
madf
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When I was in New Orleans in May the price of a US Gallon was just breaking the 2 dollars mark( for around 3.85 litres as opposed to UK gallon of 4.54 litres ).
The drivers I spoke to were incensed that the price had risen in less than a year from USD 1.35 per gallon.
Last night on the news that showed the queues at petrol stations the price on the pumps was over USD 3 per gallon so that works out around 42 pence per litre now from around 19 p per litre last year.
This equates to 100% increase in last year and 40 to 50% increase in the last three months.
I am just so sad that the friendly , courteous people of this beautiful old city have suffered such a terrible tragedy an am praying that all the friends that I made in the jazz and blues clubs have survived.
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What I am trying to say I suppose is that in the context of the human tragedy that is coming to light , the price of fuel worldwide is neither here nor there....
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I don't think anyone would dispute that it's a terrible tragedy.
But I don't think the Americans have much to moan about regarding the cost of petrol, even if it is a 100% increase. In real terms they are still enjoying cheap petrol, even allowing for the smaller gallon.
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