its a fair offer but the gear slipping makes me worry about long term issues as its only 3 mo warranty so i am using the law to my advantage.
what happens if he goes "bankrupt"?
|
|
I think you are out of luck in the complete refund department. I recall that it is almost impossible to reject a vehicle after you have owned it a couple of days. If you had driven off the forecourt, got down the road before you realised, then took it back...well, fair do's. But, in this case I think you will be extremely hard pushed to get anywhere with this one.
|
i contacted him a day after i took delivery and he said he is gonna sort it - he hasnt
i also contacted TS and consumer direct and they both tell me i am well within my rights.
|
|
A simple trade descriptions dispute. I would send a letter by recorded post informing him he has 7 days to refund the cost of the car. Otherwise you will start court action, point out in the letter that the car described in the advert differs from the one you were sold. Also get in touch with your local trading standards office.
|
|
Very easy to underestimate traders IMHO if people think threatening and the like is going to get them scuttling around trying to placate you I think its a case of rose tinted specs. They're hard nosed and in business to make money - any threat will be taken personally by all but the bigger dealers and they'll dig their heels in out of principle - I know I would!
|
|
what happens if he declares "bankrupcy"
|
If he declares bankruptcy then you will take your place as a creditor for whatever amount you can get in judgement and his assets will be divided amongst his creditors until there is none left.
Without wishing to provide any form of advice, you probably are within your rights to claim a full refund for the goods if they are not as described, but being overly aggressive and insisting on all possible rights being fulfilled to the letter without any room for negotiation may make a simple dispute into a rather more complex and entrenched one. That said, I feel that the dealer is making life more difficult for himself than it need be.
|
If he declares bankruptcy then you will take your place as a creditor for whatever amount you can get in judgement and his assets will be divided amongst his creditors until there is none left.
...and I wouldn't hold your breath on that point, either - it may well be necessary for a Trustee to be appointed to realise the assets. That can take a considerable amount of time and money, particularly if the chap has attempted to conceal or dispose of assets, or transfer them into the name of a third party, and steps have to be taken to unpick all of it.
If you can't get him to play ball, getting a judgment will certainly help, if only to prove that you have a valid claim against him.
|
|
|
|
What happens if he leaves the country?
|
|
Gears usually 'jump out' of gear - if something is 'slipping' I suggest it may be the clutch. It would be as well to sure what the fault is before going with all guns blazing IMHO!
|
Gears usually 'jump out' of gear - if something is 'slipping' I suggest it may be the clutch. It would be as well to sure what the fault is before going with all guns blazing IMHO!
its an auto.
|
|
What happens if he leaves the country?
Absconding to avoid bankruptcy proceedings is actually a criminal offence, as is trying to conceal assets by moving them offshore shortly before the brown stuff hits the moving-air-about thing, although the likelihood of actually being prosecuted for either is not especially great.
To be honest, it doesn't make a lot of difference, if he's got assets in the UK, i.e. a house or similar. You can be adjudged bankrupt in your absence, and trustees in bankruptcy have pretty wide-ranging statutory powers to get hold of assets on behalf of creditors, and the absence or non-co-operation of the bankrupt doesn't generally alter the end result apart from making the whole process more protracted and expensive.
It is also usually possible to recover assets (usually money but occasionally property) that are offshore, also - the courts in plenty of nice, sunny places that people imagine to be beyond the reach of anyone here are frequently happy to assist in these sorts of circumstances, despite what some people in pubs would have you believe.
|
well looks like i will be going to court over this matter,
he is unwilling to cooperate, the car itself is faulty and misdescribed, he is wasting time, therefore i am gonna get legal aid and see whta a solicitor has to say about this now
i dont understand why he is making life so difficult for himself!
|
"gonna get legal aid" - good luck with that!
Can't recall but you didn't pay in part for the card by credit card did you? If so you should have additional consumer protection and could try contacting the card company.
|
Two things: -
1. The car was advertised as having heated seats. An advert is an inviation to trade, not a warranty. It is up to you to check that it does or does not have the items specified.
2. Get a report on the gearbox from an auto specialist. If the car is clearly very faulty reject it, but you may find that it can be repaired for a limited amount of money and with a warranty from the repairer. Then claim the cost back from the vendor.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
|
www.adviceguide.org.uk/n6w/c_secondhand_cars.pdf
This says
"this includes any written description in an advert or catalogue"
|
|
I have had the car looked a by a volvo authorised dealer.
|
>>i dont understand why he is making life so difficult for himself!
I might say the same to you.
You are not going to get legal aid. Not a chance. Not ever. Not going to happen.
He has made, by your own admission, "a fair offer" and you are simply trying to use "the law to my advantage" again in your own words.
You will almost certainly lose since his offer is more than reasonable. Your, perhaps legitimate, concern that there may be other difficulties with the car will be lost in your generally unreasonable behaviour.
A reasonable solution would be to accept his offer provided it came with a warranty or an commitment to deal with any other related faults within a certain period of time.
|
ok i may have missed some details
sales of goods act states goods should be as described otherwise a FULL refund is in order, which it is according to Yorkshire Trading standards and Consumer direct UK
he also gave me a 3 month warranty with the car which he gave me in writing.
He has made a fair offer, but surely if we play by the book a refund is in order?
|
How was it described on the sales documentation ? Not on any advertising ? Would the lack of electric seats cause you not to buy the vehicle ? Is there some reason why the addition of electric seats is not a viable and reasonable solution ? For what reason, other than meanness, would you reject this offer ?
Merhantable quality is, perhaps, the avenue you wish to follow. How significant is the fault ? Are we talkign about a car which you paid £10k against a "new" value of £30k in which case a fair amount of deterioration may be expected, or is it £10k against an original valu eof £11k in which case virtually no dpereciation could be expected ? Did he offer to repair it promptly wihtout cost to yourself ? Is it a major repair ? Could this be seen as indicative of potential further failures ? Have steps been offered, such as full inspection, which would minimise any future concerns ? It is a "normal" failure or an exceptional one ? For how long have you been using the vehicle ? How many miles has it been used for ? Have you had value from the vehicle ? Have you minimised any losses, including not using the vehicle ?
You know what, I'd take the offer.........
|
The sales documentation only says S60 Bifuel Auto SE < that is all
the advertising on his website clearly stated has heated seats.
Lack of HEATED seats did influence my purchase as i dont like cold winter mornings, even more now as i am annoyed as it said heated seats when there arent any.
I dont think addition of heated seats is possible at this stage?
I would reject this car because of the gearbox fault and it may go wrong after 3 months,
another fault has appeared since, that is that the engine doesnt cold start unless i crank it numerous times.
It is potentially a major repair, they have suggested gearbox reprogram, if not then a overhaul, he isnt bieng swift about this at all, he is taking his time.
Its definatley not normal
the car has been used for 61k miles from new of which i have put on 700 miles.
I have not used the car since the fault appeared.
|
ANything can be retrofitted to a car after it is built, lots of people have retrofitted A/C systems etc. why should adding heating elements inside the seats be a problem?
Blue
|
yeah it shouldnt be a problem,
but i am entitled to my money back arent i
so why not :D
|
Far be it from me to support a car dealer, but it does seem to me that the seller offered you a perfectly reasonable solution, but you have just decided that, whatever happens, you want to get rid of the car.
I think I would take his offer. I don't think a court would find in your favour.
|
ok well i went to a volvo dealer this afternoon
they tell me:-
to fix the gearbox they want about 1600
to fit heated seats a further 1500
total 3100
now who thinks the car dealer is going to be willing to pay that out to fix my car????
he would be making a considerable loss if he did pay that.
It looks to me like he is wasting time and the damn lawyer seems to be kinda busy at the mo :(
|
The cost to him is different to the "retai".
Were you quoted for new heated seats and gearbox - he may put in those of an age commensurate with car (or not).
Rgds.
Graham.
|
yes
although what are the chances of finding those kind of items second hand???
i am going to see what he has to say tomorrow when i have the written quote for him to see.
i doubt he is going to be helpful.
|
Best of luck.
Regards.
Graham.
|
You can go to court just because you don't believe he will do what he says. You would need him actually not to do it. Why does he not have the car right now ? Is he delaying the repair or are you ? If you are, I do hope the car isn't deteriorating, because that could end up being your fault.
Have you officially rejected his offer of repair ? Has he officially made that offer, in fact ? What justification did you give ? What reaction did he offer ?
|
He doesnt have the car right now because i dont trust him with it.
he is delaying the repair i took the car to my nearest dealer got them to inspect it and they told me what it is and how much it costs. i took the dealers card to him and told him what they said, he told me he will book the car in to repair and we will all be on our merry way, he didnt do anything for about 3-4 days after that which imo is delaying.
i wrote him an official rejection letter about the car after 3 days he said we will help you so i decided to give him another chance, by this time my finance company had also got in touch with him and he told them he needs an independant written report about the car, which is what i have done by taking the car today to another volvo dealer and hopefully they will fax me tomorrow.
I havent officially rejected the repair offer, only the car.
What do you meand officially made that offer? - offer of repair?
i am entitled to a repair as he gave me a written statement about the car having 3 month garuntee.
I am not sure about the car deteriorating, how can it?
if you mean by sitting on my drive all day, i do occasionally take it for a drive.
|
i do occasionally take it for a drive
I have not used the car since the fault appeared.
give us a timeline.
e.g. how you managed to clock 700 miles in the time before the faults became apparent.
|
ok
by havent used i mean havent used to go to work etc.
monday 1st - take delivery of the car
wed 10th run it for week and a half, notice problem take it to the volvo dealer after bieng told by the car garage to do so. give details of the repairs back to the car dealer the same day with the card of the person i spoke to at volvo.
mon 14th nothing! - how long does it take to call someone and book an appointment, get annyoed and send a letter for car rejection.
couple of phonecalls during the week and a letter to the finance company.
monday 21 - couple of calls, him saying he needs to check with my finance company and some other b/s
Wed - annoyed, cant get hold of him/
fri - send another letter saying that this is your last chance to refund.
mon 28 - finance company suggest to give him another chance, he claims that i have cut a deal with the volvo dealer in chesterfield to replace the components unneccesarily or some bs like that even though he told me to take it there!!!!
mon eve - here we are.
the miles were accumulated in the first week of ownership. the problem wasnt immediatly apparent (i dont think i noticed it)
|
Your rejection doesn't count since you didn't actually return the car.
What sort of finance do you have ? You may find that you have some comeback against the finance company.
I would send him a letter, backed by advice form a solicitor which says "repair or replace by date x".
Then you'll need to go to court.
I don't know about the heated seats because I don't think anybody will regard that as sufficiently serious. However, if he's not repairing the gearbox and not offering assurances that it won't go wrong again, then that would be where you go after him.
Frequently the one behaving mroe "reasonably" and trying to resolve the issue without unneccesarily standing on their rights walks away with the better deal, even if not techincally the winner.
You do need a solicitor. (you won't get legal aid).
|
as Mark says, you're not going to get legal aid.
I suspect a good solicitor would advise you not to go to court, and going to court could well cost a lot of money.
Money that you will lose if you don't get your act together - you want to reject the car, but say the dealer made a fair offer. You say he's delaying repairs, but you deny him access to the vehicle. You say you haven't driven it, then you say you have.
You provide a history events that fits no calender on planet earth, unless this has been going on over several years.
You'll not get laughed out of court, because you'll get laughed out of the solicitors office first, unless you find a solicitor who's happy to take your money and run - and if you do, just hope the dealer in question doesn't read what you've said here and use that as evidence of your unreasonableness!
|
well i have bought a car which was advertised as having heated seats, when i noticed a couple of days later that there werent any i wrote the seller (a small dealer) a letter
>>
in his first post, he says "couple of days".
drives 700miles in a week.
calendar anomalies - well spotted by wd40.
could pj4d be connected to our old audi80quattro friend? i think it is time to end my input to this thread.
|
when have i denyed him access to the car?
he hasnt even asked for the car!
|
when have i denyed him access to the car?
He doesnt have the car right now because i dont trust him with it.
You need to think very carefully about the meaning of what you say otherwise you'll cause yourself an awful lot of trouble
|
|
also i have all of this fiasco documented at work not at home, hence the anomolies.
|
I really don't understand any of this.
You've bought a car, it has some faults, the seller has agreed to rectify the faults.
Why isn't that the end of the story?
Instead it continues...
"I won't let him because I don't trust him", I rather make some lawyer rich instead.
Are you my ex-wife?
It seems to me that some people like to make their lives difficult.
JaB
|
Let the guy fix the car.
Once the work is complete get an independant to check it over.
Also if you take him to court the only people who will make money are the lawyers. That is of course you can get a lawyer to take the case on.
|
|
Top take a step back into the detail shouldn't an S60 SE have heated seats as standard? Is it really an SE?
|
No. The heated seats are an option as part of the Winter Pack (heated seats, luxury floor mats and headlight cleaning system. £350 to you sir).
If I remember correctly pj4d was asking about buying this car on an earlier discussion a few months back and showed a link to the ad.
I cannot understand why you are so irate about this pj4d.
OK, the garage may have some 'communication' issues with you but that might be down to an 'I know my rights!' attitude (forgive me if I am wrong on this, the tone of your notes above leads me to suspect you would not get a position in the diplomatic corps).
He is offering to put things right.
People make mistakes and the above comment from Ian is a common perception that this is standard, whereas in reality it was a commonly specced option. If he is prepared to upgrade the car in recognition of a mistake then I would thank him very much and let him get it done.
The loss of goodwill in this type of situation helps no-one and will only cause grief to all.
As I remember it, the car was good value for money and it is clear that in putting things right the dealer will lose all of the profit on the sale.
There are many valid suggestions from others above such as getting the gearbox work underwritten by the dealer. I suspect that if put to him nicely he will, but under threats of legal action he will only do what is absolutely nessasary and with the other info above about miles travelled etc I think you could be putting yourself in a position where you will be the eventual loser.
I understand you being upset about not having the seats as advertised but come on, mistakes happen and he wants to put them right.
|
|
|
|
|
