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Big cars - why would you need one? - Mad Maxy
Sat in an Audi A8 the other day. Quite nice, but made me think 'Why would anyone want a car this big?'

Cars like the A8, 7 series, S-class, etc use loads of fuel and are unwieldy. One-up, it's like sitting in an empty concert hall; hardly involving. More rear leg room? Who for, and do they really need it? OK for top execs being chauffeur-driven maybe. Big boot? Get a medium-sized estate - and more practical anyway. Big family? Need an MPV. Obese? The seats are pretty much the same size - and the A8's are short on thigh support.

So it's an ego trip then.
Big cars - why would you need one? - malteser
In this, as in other things, size matters!
Roger in Spain
Big cars - why would you need one? - patently
Why drive a big exec limo? I've no idea - so I don't!

I was lent a 745i for 48 hours. It was a truly fantastic car. But there was no earthly reason I could see for having it instead of (say) a 5 or a 3. And I couldn't get it in the garage.
Big cars - why would you need one? - Mapmaker
So suburban, Patently! Keep it on the road, and then it doesn't matter how big it is.
Big cars - why would you need one? - Andrew-T
\"Keep it on the road, and then it doesn\'t matter how big it is\" - it does if you are trying to drive past it.
Big cars - why would you need one? - Mapmaker
Not when it is in a long line of parked cars, in a clearly defined parking bay it doesn't.
Big cars - why would you need one? - NowWheels
\"Keep it on the road, and then it doesn\'t matter how big it is\"
- it does if you are trying to drive past it.


unless you\'re driving one of those vehicles with bullbars, which could probly just push it out of the way. Some of them could probly even drive over it ...
Big cars - why would you need one? - patently
What? So that ignorant 4x4 drivers can scrape their bull bars along it? No chance!
Big cars - why would you need one? - Vin {P}
Why do I drive an Omega rather than a Vectra (Which would undoubtedly do the job according to your "size doesn't matter" philosophy)?

Well:

I like the extra space for me in the car.
I like the bigger boot while still enjoying a saloon shaped car - though I am getting an Omega Estate for the wife.
I like the extra space for the kids in the back.
I can reasonably comfortably get 5 people in the car, even given the child seats in the back.
It's heavier, so offers a better ride quality (ratio of sprung:unsprung weight is higher)
It's heavier, so it's safer.
It's further up the model range, so had better safety features for its age than a Vectra.

I suspect the last three are what makes people really go for them. On safety, I saw a documentary featuring a crash expert who pointed out that Princess Di would have been unharmed in her fatal accident if she'd had a seatbelt on in the S-class she was in.

So, in summary, the answer is ride quality and security. That's why, as soon as I can afford it, I'll go for even bigger.

V
Big cars - why would you need one? - Stuartli
Princess Diana wouldn't necessarily have been unharmed if she had been wearing a safety belt, but she would multiplied her chances of survival many times over.

Of the four people in the Mercedes the only one to survive the very serious high speed collision with a concrete post in the tunnel was the bodyguard, who was sat in the front passenger seat.

He was wearing his seatbelt.

It demonstrated that the Mercedes' extensive safety features, combined with the use of a belt, will give you a fighting chance of getting out alive.
Big cars - why would you need one? - NowWheels
It demonstrated that the Mercedes' extensive safety features, combined with the
use of a belt, will give you a fighting chance of
getting out alive.


As that incident demonstrated, those safety features are particularly useful for a car driven way above the speed limit into a concrete pillar by a drunk driver
Big cars - why would you need one? - Mapmaker
Gently, NW!

Or for a car driving at a perfectly legal 70mph which is hit by another car being driven way above the speed limit by a drunk driver, and as a consequence hitting a concrete pillar.

Big cars - why would you need one? - NowWheels
Or for a car driving at a perfectly legal 70mph which
is hit by another car being driven way above the speed
limit by a drunk driver, and as a consequence hitting a
concrete pillar.


That too ... but the downside of safety features is that they are often negated by drivers who adjust their driving style to the higher safety level. The big car with safety gadgets may survive a crash better than a small one, but only if the driver refrains from using the big car's extra performance.

I'm sure the Merc was much much safer than, say, a superfast version of a Fiesta-sized car. But at the other extreme, a Citroen 2CV would never have got much beyond the legal speedlimit in the first place!

Would a 2CV have been safer overall on that journey through Paris? Possibly not, but it's a more complex question than merely whether it would better withstand a crash -- e.g. the driver would have had to use some technique other than speed to evade the paparazzi?
Big cars - why would you need one? - patently
OK, NW.

Let's say you're at the wheel of a 2CV with an international mega-celebrity in the back. You are surrounded by paparazzi on mopeds, who are not yet doing anything illegal. The mopeds are, of course, highly maneouvrable and can stop & turn on a sixpence. However, they are limited in their top speed.

What technique, other than speed, would you use?

[No comment re Diana's accident intended, I just want to know what NW would have done]
Big cars - why would you need one? - Mapmaker
Well, open the roof, press the ejector button, and catapult minor celebrity onto passing park bench. Couldn't do that with a Merc, as it has a hard top. But with a 2CV, lots of space for getting out of the roof.

How would you do it, Patently?
Big cars - why would you need one? - patently
I couldn't, other than by hitting the loud pedal and getting out via the hole between the pillars, as opposed to through the pillar itself.

But NW seems to think she has an alternative. I'm all ears (or eyes, maybe).
Big cars - why would you need one? - NowWheels
What technique, other than speed, would you use?


I dunno: I'm not a highly skilled driver, and I know nowt about high security driving. I'm sure that aprt from speed, they have tricks I'd never dream of.

Maybe look for a few cobbled streets, which a 2CV handles in style, but motorbikes hate, and hope to shake em off that way?

Maybe the driver might have said "sorry love, place is crawling with paparazzi, best sit it out for a while or get photographed"?
(maybe even offer a photocall to get them off their bikes)

Maybe use a few decoy vehicles?

Those may all be really dumb ideas, but -- tragically -- none are quite as dumb as the idea actually used. I'm just suggesting that without the apparent possibility of a high speed getaway in a fast-and-safe car, there might have been a bit more lateral thinking.
Big cars - why would you need one? - patently
there might have been a bit more lateral thinking.


Easier said than done, I fear!
Big cars - why would you need one? - NowWheels
>> there might have been a bit more lateral thinking.
>>
Easier said than done, I fear!


You're probably right -- I don't really have much faith in the imaginative abilities of some of those involved.

But I there must, somehow, have been a better solution than the high-speed armoured getaway: it's rarely a successful ploy in any circumstances, and it's noteable that (apart from one bodyguard) the folks involved were not the usual team of minders. I suspect that a real pro minder would have had a lot of other cards to play.



Big cars - why would you need one? - No Do$h
Blimey, as well as wanting to reclaim the streets, you advise on close protection policies?

I'm praying you never find out where this large-diesel driving moderator lives....

;)
Big cars - why would you need one? - NowWheels
Blimey, as well as wanting to reclaim the streets, you advise
on close protection policies?


I know sod all about protection, but this wasn't a physical safety issue, it was a media/privacy one. I do know quite a lot about media management, albeit not quite in that end of the process (the few media-intrusion stories I have personally handled have been at the other end of the foodchain) .. but I know enough to recognise a flawed media strategy.

That's why I was toying with the question of how they could have found a way around the problem rather than trying to push through it.
Big cars - why would you need one? - Stuartli
Actually there have been some doubts about the claim that the driver had been drinking - or at least been drinking to the extent alleged.

I'm certainly no lover or supporter of conspiracy theories, but there are quite a number of anomalies surrounding this particular incident that have never been fully explained.
Big cars - why would you need one? - Vin {P}
"Princess Diana wouldn't necessarily have been unharmed if she had been wearing a safety belt, but she would multiplied her chances of survival many times over."

No, the expert in question was not equivocal - he had investigated the accident and said that she would have been unharmed.

V
Big cars - why would you need one? - Stuartli
Thanks for that information - it's a while since I read the report.

I'm not sure how any difinitive verdict could have been reached as to whether anyone would have been injured or not, whether seriously or slightly, in an accident if they had been wearing a seatbelt.

Proves the original point though..:-)
Big cars - why would you need one? - Mark (RLBS)
>>So it's an ego trip then.

Or because somebody simply wanted one. Presumably a portion of why anybody buys any car is because it was one they wanted ? BE that because of its colour, shape, size, extras, engine noise, or anything else other than strict utility.

So is everyone on an ego trip ? Or was that just a rather silly comment ?

Big cars - why would you need one? - Dalglish
any bets on how long before this thread and the small hatchbacks thread go the same way as the 4x4 and kenlivingstone threads?
Big cars - why would you need one? - No Do$h
any bets on how long before this thread and the
small hatchbacks thread go the same way as the 4x4 and
kenlivingstone threads?


Well we did have close to 200 posts between the 4x4 thread; mainly the same 4 posts re-written 50 times.....

These ones seem to be developing along a similar theme and I\'m wondering how long it will take for the penny to click amongst the usual suspects.

Here\'s a few hints :

We are individuals
We have free choice
We are allowed to spend our money on whatever legal goods we choose
We have different needs
We have different aspirations

I just know I\'m wasting my breathe (metaphorically speaking) but there you go.
Big cars - why would you need one? - Sooty Tailpipes
I like larger cars, not because of the size, I don't need it, but I like the safety, the quality, the ride, and every conceivable option. If there was a small coupé with all those features, and the safety and ride, I would buy that, but until that day, I will buy used Chairman's vars.
Big cars - why would you need one? - Pugugly {P}
Hmmm.Bought a 5 with my own money. It is a bit large really should the truth be known. 90% of the time its one up or at most two up. A 330d would do the same job as would a Fiat Punto. May replace it with a new 3 series when they come out.
Big cars - why would you need one? - L'escargot
So it's an ego trip then.



If you've got it, why not flaunt it?
--
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
Big cars - why would you need one? - Hugo {P}
I've got a 4x4 so I can intimidate those self riteous little oiks in their 1.0 l hatches hogging the middle lane!

As a bonus I get loads of verbal in return, but that's why I like paying loads more tax on my fuel!

There - that should fule the debate....

DISCLAIMER
- The above was written with toungue firmly in cheek
- No self riteous little oiks in 1.0 l hatches were ever harmed in this way
- I hate paying fuel tax!

H
Big cars - why would you need one? - NowWheels
I've got a 4x4 so I can intimidate those self riteous
little oiks in their 1.0 l hatches hogging the middle lane!


Isn't there an evidential problem here?

The driver of the 1.0l hatch may have been given it as a hire car or borrowed it from wife/mother/gf, and so might not be a proper oik. Might even be a 4X4 driver the rest of the time!

Given the uncertainty, do you intimidate all such cars, or try other tests to determine the oikishness of the suspect?

[/t-i-c]
Big cars - why would you need one? - Stuartli
The one thing that most 4x4 owners appear to forget - especially those Mums taking their offspring to/from school, many of them usually with a mobile clamped to their ear and one hand on the wheel - is that if they have an accident the result could be catastrophic.

4x4s are not only higher off the road, for obvious reasons, but are immensely strong and in a collision with another vehicle, safety measures such as the latter's side impact bars etc would probably have little value.

The 4x4 occupant(s) would probably escape lightly, but a car's driver (and any passengers) would be very likely to suffer serious, if not fatal, injuries depending on the speeds involved and the point of impact.

Incidentally, talking about mobiles, has anyone noticed that using one whilst driving still seems to be almost as prevalent as before the new legislation came into effect?
Big cars - why would you need one? - No Do$h
step away from the 4x4 discussion!!!

The thread is entitled \"Big cars - why would you need one?\" NOT let\'s have another go at anyone with a 4x4.

We thank you for your understanding.

The Moderators
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
Big cars - why would you need one? - Mapmaker
Whewww! Sexy colours. Careful PG, NW, he's really trying to impress...
Big cars - why would you need one? - Dynamic Dave

ND always likes to show off
Big cars - why would you need one? - AN Other
The pros:
Better spec - usually well loaded with goodies from new;
More space - just to stretch out in as well as for those occasions when you actually need to carry stuff/people;
Quieter on the motorway - they were built for it;
Smoother ride;
Usually better made - there\'s a bigger profit margin for manufacturers on these cars, and more demanding customers, so they seem (to me, at least) to be better built;
Longer lasting / more reliable - because of the above, but only up to a certain point...
Safer - better safety features, bigger crumple zones, more stable handling, better brakes etc.
Good value - depreciation is your best mate here. Most people don\'t want a 6 year old Mercedes, so they\'re not worth much more than a Polo (car, not mint... Or maybe not!)You therefore get a lot for your money.
Insurance - you\'d be surprised here, I think. Said Merc is not as attractive to thieves as a nice fast looking hatchback. Statistics also show the insurance company that the Merc is likely to be driven by an old pink fluffy dice who is less likely to crash etc.

The cons:
Fuel costs - although on a run you might only be looking at a 5-10mpg difference. Depends how many miles you do. Big cars seem to be a long way in efficiency from the Granada 2.8i guzzlers of my youth, as well;
Parking - a pain in the neck;
Repairs / servicing - can be dear if something specific to that car breaks, although most big cars are still parts bin specials at base. A head job on a BMW 24v is not going to be cheap;
Image - people are more tempted think you\'re a overpaid profligate...


I think you have to accept that if you buy a big car you might get stung for a complete engine rebuild, and you have to ask yourself if it would financially ruin you or not. If not, then I\'d prefer a larger car to a small hatch. Oh, and big estates make even more sense - more useful, better residuals, image etc.
Big cars - why would you need one? - machika
Only 5 to 10 mpg difference on a run? Not if your are comparing a big car with the likes of a small diesel hatch, say like a Citroen C3, which will return 60 to 70 mpg.

I won't go into the environmental arguments about why we should be trying to cut down on oil consumption, as I reckon more than a few of us will be forced to reconsider our car choice, if the current state of affairs with oil prices continues.

I like a comfortable car myself, with plenty of room inside. However, it is possible to get a good ride in a smaller car. I once had Citroen ZX and the ride in that was excellent
Big cars - why would you need one? - NowWheels
Whewww! Sexy colours. Careful PG, NW, he's really trying
to impress...


nah, he's gone right off my shopping list since he ran away when asked for a photo ;-)