From page 33 of today?s Daily Mail:
?Big Brother? in the boot that will stop drivers speeding? by Ray Massey, Transport Editor
Cars are to be fitted with electronic devices that will automatically keep drivers within the speed limit in trial costing £2 million.
If successful, manufacturers could be ordered to fit the ?black box? limiters costing between £100 and £200 to all new cars within a decade.
Supporters say the idea could save more than 1,000 lives a year. But, coming at a time when speed cameras are proliferating, it triggered fresh allegations of Big Brother-style interference to slow cars down.
The Government is backing the two-year experiment by Leeds University and the motor industry research body MIRA, which will involve up to 20 Skoda Fabia cars.
The system ? which could eventually make speed cameras redundant ? is known as Intelligent Speed Adaption and works in a similar way to in-car satellite navigation systems.
Its backers say it could be easily and relatively cheaply integrated into existing dashboard technology.
Each Skoda has a small computer in the boot which carries in its memory a digital road map showing the limits on all roads in Leeds, as well as the motorways around the UK.
A satellite positioning system tell s the computer where the car is at all times.
When a vehicle drives into an area where the speed limit drops from, say 40mph to 30mph, a signal is sent to a device which controls the engine management system, preventing the speed from rising above the legal limit.
The driver hears a ?beep? when the limit changes and can see a warning on the electronic map on the dashboard.
The system detects whether the driver is responding to the new limit. If not, the car will begin braking automatically some 300 yards before the 30mph sign.
Drivers taking part in the trial will be able to override the system in an emergency, for example to accelerate out of danger.
It is not known, however, if an override would be included if the device was approved for general use.
Professor Oliver Carston from Leeds University?s department of transport studies, who is leading the project denied it smacked of Big Brother.
?I don?t think it is Big Brother to enforce the law,? he said. ?This system is cheaper than speed cameras and more effective at changing driver behaviour.?
A 12-month trial has already been carried out successfully on one Ford Escort. In the new project, some 80 drivers will be monitored in sessions lasting six months easch ? checking their driving for a month before the limiter is switched on, for four months while it is on and then for one month without it.
Professor Carsten said: ?We want to assess whether the system changes people?s driving habits.?
?Once the system is switched off, they may feel so liberated that they drive like a bat out of hell. Alternatively, they might be more aware of speed limits and be better drivers.?
Initial tests showed that drivers felt safer and had fewer near-misses with pedestrians or cyclists. Jonathan Simpson of the RAC Foundation, said: ?We think the real danger is that this system would put motorists on auto-pilot rather than, in any way, thinking about their speed.?
Discuss?
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If introduced, drivers will switch off and the government will be forced to switch on to the fact that speeding causes relatively few accidents except by schools and so on, areas that will never be properly controlled anyway. Interesting to see whether a 'black box' would have to be used everywhere or whether it use would be enforced intelligently ie where speeding is actually a safety issue. The ridiculous thing is that everyone will do 30/40/50 regardless. I'll be cynically amused when accidents increase as a consequence.
Besides, surely it'll be easy to override even if a specific feature doesn't enable it?
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But... they already know where you are through GPS and they could just make it an endorsable offence to drive without it. It might be a defence to say that the device stopped working, but that could also be controlled by monitoring a fault log.
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True.
Can't see GPS being an efficient medium through which to monitor a potential future 20 million black boxes though.
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Wasnt their a concerns about using GPS in mass systems as its owned by the american goverment and they can limit who uses it at any time, what would happen if in 15 - 20 years when every car has a gps system the us goverment decides its to dangerous for public use so disables it?
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If the Government want to stop all this speeding why do they allow cars to be built/imported that can do more than 70mph?
We all speed but as my mother used to say there is a time and place for everything.If you blast past a school you should have your pink fluffy dice cut off (what would they cut off my Mrs who is always speeding) but how many times have I driven about at three in the morning when there is nothing about.
Why not have different speed limits for different times?The main people that drive dangerously rather than fast usually have no MOT etc and do not care if they get caught.So what if they get banned as they probaly did not have a licence in the first place.
In this country there are the few who affect the majority that have got a downer on any motorised transport.
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New car sales would plummet for a start.
How is it effective at changing driver behaviour? As soon as they get in an unlimited car they are going to go back to either their old ways or drive even faster. I normally stick to speed limits but if forced to use one of these things I would be annoyed as hell and therefore prone to driving exactly at the limit and never slowing down. Road rage would rocket. Imagine if someone pulls out in front of you and you need to slow down, normally you could overtake if safe but this way you're going to be on that horn beeping until they reach the limit.
When are the powers that be going to get it in their heads that bad driving causes accidents and deliberate measures to slow people down will make the population even more frustrated and liable to take risks just to get from a to b in a reasonable time? Why don't they try taking off the traffic calming measures, put speed limits back to where they should be and usually have been for years but prosecute drivers who speed in 30 mph zones (more than 5 mph over anyway) for dangerous driving not just give them a few points.
If these drivers using the limited cars feel safer and have fewer near misses when forced to be driving at the speed limit then they shouldn't be on the road full stop as they are obviously not capable of driving safely.
I'd only use these limited cars on people with poor accident records, points etc as a punishment for their incompetance. That might actually make a difference.
teabelly
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"but prosecute drivers who speed in 30 mph zones (more than 5 mph over anyway) for dangerous driving not just give them a few points."
You mean like the recent thread where the contributor was clocked at 42 in a 30, and came up with all sorts of excuses including calibration of the radar gun?
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Just to let you know it was me who came up with all sorts of excuses and the Police cannot produce the calibration certificate so I am off the hook as are all the other people caught that morning.
If you think you are right sometimes it is worth kicking up a fuss even with the police who have been very apologetic.
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"The system detects whether the driver is responding to the new limit. If not, the car will begin braking automatically some 300 yards before the 30mph sign.
Drivers taking part in the trial will be able to override the system in an emergency, for example to accelerate out of danger."
Sounds like a recipe for disaster! Car decides to slow down because there is a 30 limit ahead, ignores fact that there is a lorry 3ft off your backside, and that you are (safely) overtaking a cyclist before the limit reduces. Use your imagination for the consequences.
Jonathan
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I really cannot see why you lot are whingeing so much. If you can't break the speed limit then you can't be caught and fined by one of those speed cameras that you keep moaning over.
When was the last time any of you genuinely had to quickly accelerate to over the speed limit in a 30 to get out of danger? If you can't forsee a dangerous situation in a 30 then you shouldn't be driving.
Why don't you stop all this self-righteous whining and realise that the Government will introduce this whether you like it or not.
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Speed limiters are coming,they will limit the top speed of the car and will also limit the speed of the car in posted speed limits.This will happen,our whining about it will not stop it,and as to new car sales, there might be some resistance but that will soon pass.Believe it,its coming.
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Thankfully some of us will be able to keep driving cars without these devices for many years to come.
I hope I never ever need to drive a car with a GPS transmitter fitted.
MM
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Surely this whole thing is fundamentally flawed from the word go though? It's a GPS unit, they sometimes struggle to find a satellite in perfect conditions, it would be such a simple matter to simply make it's job that little bit harder...?
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Guys, this is the usual Daily Mail non-story.
The Leeds Uni experiment has been going on for years, having been on television more than once.
Just look at the number of times the article says 'may' or 'might'. In other words, they haven't found anybody to confirm it but any story which knocks Big Brother government always stirs 'em up...
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The GPS thing really screws this idea up. As loads of people have said, the requirement for a good GPS signal will make this unreliable and unworkable. GPS is only here by the grace of the US government, the European union funded system is years away and not guaranteed to arrive anway, so GPS is a non starter.
What are starters tho are inductive loops in the road, picked up by the car ECU so you get for example - start_30_limit and end_30_limit or timed zones outside schools set at 20 or 15. The latter i think is a very good idea, and would show road users that the Government is serious about speed related death and not *revenue* related speed limits.
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The loop system sounds great but what happens when the exit loop fails and your car has no idea what speed it should do and when it hits a 70 limit on a motorway goes into creep mode and you end up doing 30mph and a lorry hits you up the rear and kills you? Hmmm.
Sounds dodgy to me.
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As Marcos says, a billion things to go wrong and when one does and someone gets hurt then the Government is on the end of a massive law suit. Dodgy.
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As Marcos says, a billion things to go wrong and when one does and someone gets hurt then the Government is on the end of a massive law suit. Dodgy.
Like the failure to install Automatic Train protection on the railways you mean. Despite repeated courts of inquiry saying they should? Despite the governement being forced to admit they put a price per death on railway travel? Do i see court case looming? Nooooooo I do not. I see train drivers prosecuted, I see track workers prosecuted, I might even see some middle manager prosecuted becuase his name was on some paper. Do I see a government misister in the dock? NOOOOOOOOO I dont
Sorry I rant
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Good Point, but thats no worse than some modern ECUs that detect faults and drop you into limp home mode. Plus I dont know many 30mph urban roads that turn into 70mph motorways, I get the feeling you would twig something was wrong before you joined. A quick turn off and restart would fix it.
As people have said, these systems will come, later rather than sooner perhaps, but they will come. My only hope is that someone with common sense is involved in planning them and locates them in accident black spot areas. I have little faith tho.
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well based on my experience:
I hope they are fitted to all cars with an automatic failsafe which puts them into limp home mode PERMANENTLY when they
1. fit a big bore exhaust
2. drive fast over speed humps
3. ignore red lights
4. drive straight through zebra crossings when there are pedestrians on them (me!)
Seriously I see too many idiots on the roads who are a menace to life and limb. A method of controlling them seems ideal (wot about police then?)
madf
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Madf,
Made the point before but always happy to repeat myself. The standard of driving on the roads has plummetted. Camera speed enforcement has been followed by withdrawl of traffic patrols. As long as you do not speed past a camera you can now pretty much get away with anything plus the enforcement message is that speed is the root of all evil, anything else is such a lesser offence as not to count.
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Well said Thommo, you've hit the nail on the head there.
Saw a sticker in the back window of a car today - "Oi! You're driving a car, not a phone kiosk!"
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Until the technologies there to keep cars a safe distance apart this wont work.
Also you'll get people losing concentration and ploughing through pedestrian crossings. Peoples attention on the road is poor enough as it is 'i'm doing 30, so i must be safe, even though i'm changing a cd, whilst on the phone, trying to find my cigarettes under the chair'
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Will be interesting to see if Italy's attempts to reduce road fatalies by increasing speed limits works.
Theory is drivers are more alert....
Limiters will come eventually in some form or another, just look at HGV's.
One statistic that shocked me was that twice as many people commit suicide in the UK compared to road traffic accidents.
80% of the 7000 are men between 18-25. You dont many initiatives to stop these deaths ? (apologies, gone off topic slightly)
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These mad professor types are always trying to create solutions to non problems. I thinks its up there with cars that drive themselves and all the other stupid schemes. We will run out of oil before these things get implemented so don't get upset about them. Complain to your MP about the invasion of privacy all the same though.
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Just a thought, if we all became used to our cars doing the speed control for us, what would happen when we took our cars to countries where this technology was not in use? Not pretty.
Let's face it, some Scouser is going to come up with a chip which cancels the effect about 6 hours after they're introduced anyway. Before you hit the keyboard about that last comment, guess where I'm from!
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>>Before you hit the keyboard about that last comment,guess where I'm from!
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Manchester? ;)
HF
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HF
Cheeky cheeky! Not all of us here in the great North West are villains you know ;-)!
Never rub another man's rhubarb
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Funny you should say that HF. I'm Manchester now but grew up 30 odd miles west along the M62. At this rate of drift I'll be spending my retirement years in Hull.
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